The Journey of I, Dream, the man...

IntenseWorld said:

Not at all.  It's Sertraline

Ohhhh, I was on Sertraline for 6 weeks over Christmas in '93, felt constantly sick and miserable. When I returned to the Psychiatrist and told him he said "well you should have stopped taking them"! HUH?!? Do they not read the instructions themselves? "Do not stop taking this medicine without talking to your doctor". Sertraline was new at the time and I asked my shrink why he'd tried me on that first and not Prozac and he said "Because Prozac tablets cost £1 each whilst these cost 10p each)... I guess it's all about the money...

It took me quite a few years to realise that my serotonin levels did NOT need "messing" with and had absolutely no effect on my "clinical depression". That reminds me, you made a good point that our "conditions" are comorbid, a complex entanglement of "symptoms" which manifest differently in each of us.

As far as Council's go... just talking about them starts sending my hackles up I can well imagine they'd dig a hole and fill it in just to write off some money at the end of a tax year. I also find it peculiar that because I stopped "registering to vote" some years back, I started to receive "To the Occupier" envelopes from them. To me, "Occupier" is a military term for someone who is somewhere they are not supposed to be (occupied territories, occupying forces), so I am NOT an "occupier" and don't open anything addressed as such. However, the Council Tax Bill is addressed to my "given name", so the Council DO know who is here... is that odd or is it just me?

I was also furious when looking through the booklet which arrived with said bill, the third page was headed "The War on Potholes"... I almost wrote to them saying "Do we really need another war? And since when did a war on inanimate objects make any sense?". Some guy in marketing was probably paid hundreds of pounds to come up with an emotive slogan like that which has absolutely no meaning and makes no sense *sigh*.

Oh goodness no, IntenseWorld. I hate that kind of lecturer. I always worked hard at the scripts (lesson plans) to make lectures as diverse and challenging and interesting as possible, and tried to be theatrical. I don't think anyone has any right to drone on and on about their favourite subject, though I know lecturers that do. I also think it is unfair to give monologues, or read from a script. You might as well just put your text on line and let them read it in their own time.

One downside though (and I know I'm drifting off Dream's thread) is that students on the spectrum often didn't like my lecturing style because of my breaks in the flow. Some of them wanted a consistent monologue. I would be interesting to know if any readers of this on the spectrum had similar concerns about lecturing/teaching style.

However I was always very conscious of students falling asleep - there are warning signs (heads tilting back or drooping, distracting fidgeting, too many mobiles being used for games). Therefore I usually stage managed some deviation, with a care to not letting them hijack the subject matter. But it was useful to let them think they had some control, as that keeps them attentive.

@Longman, I sooo know what you mean about feeling uncomfortable about flattery. It is embarrassing, and I think it's because we do a task, we do it well and for us that is the logical way to do it ("never do things by halves" as they say) and therefore it is strange to us when people ooh and ahh about how wonderfully you did the task. (for instance).

I think most of us hate being the centre of attention (heaven knows how you got through being a lecturer, although I imagine you focused not on standing up there with a sea of student faces staring expectantly at you, but perhaps as a sort of ongoing monologue about your special interest? )

Talking of councils (both), they make me so mad.  You know what our council did (and I know why)?  They sent workmen to drill a hole in the concrete outside our property (on the driveway bit that crosses the grass verge) and shortly after, without any work having gone on in said hole, sent workmen back to fill it.  This was done at intermittent stages along our road.  It was just before the new tax year.  So this is why I knew why they did it.  They wanted to ensure they used funding so they'd get at least the same amount again for the next tax year.  It's disgusting.  How are they not embarrassed, and how do they think people will not notice, do they really think we are such plebians!

Dream said:

Would you mind me asking what meds you're on which make your AS worse in some way? Obviously that's just a "request" with no "obligation" to answer, it's just that I've found the Concerta XL don't make me feel any different, and yet my mother, sister and one guy I've known a while think I've been different since I've been on them. SSRI's just make me feel more nauseous (and I've had stomach problems since I was a child) or they make me sleep for 16+ hours a day (so a chemical cosh is supposed to "enable" me?!?).

Not at all.  It's Sertraline, which is used for anti-anxiety in my case, although it's also used for depression and OCD behaviours as well.  It is also an SSRI.  I "needed" a higher dose than I am on, but as soon as they upped my dose I got the most awful side-effects (you may know that we are more sensitive to medication) so I had to reduce back down.

Dream said:

Anywayz, many thanks for "engaging" with me IntenseWorld, it's great to interact with another mind of similar ilk, albeit through the aetherial intangible world of "cyberspace".

I am finding it most interesting myself.  Somehow, communicating in the ether makes it all the more otherwordly, and as they say we feel like aliens on the wrong planet.

Hi Longman,

Many thanks for your insight, and yes, "Sir" was purely intended as a form of polite respect (I had no idea it was interpreted sarcastically by some). I totally comprehend why you would wish no such "title" was used or attributed to you and promise to remember not to do it again when addressing you... do people really use "Sir" sarcastically? I'm actually quite shocked by that!

As I read you were a retired lecturer in your profile, it just seemed an appropriate form of address, but thank you for your understanding and acceptance that those of us with Aspergers oft fail to comprehend "social etiquette" in any given circumstance (and I used to think it was purely my upbringing which made me unable to accept complements or flattery!).

Thank you also for pointing out that by originating a thread it is not "mine" per se. As one who has actually perceived their own ego/persona/character/mind and sees "self aware" in a sense that most do not appear to (by being aware of "Self" as "not me"), I fully appreciate threads may take on a life of their own (although I'm a tad concerned when you say "be prepared to lose all sense of reason" as I rely upon rationale and reason! *chuckle*).

Thanks again for "making contact".

Hi Dream,

I think I was just addressing the thread, no-one in particular..... You'll find that if you originate a discussion it seldom remains "yours" for long, as people thrown in their own bits and pieces the subject matter drifts. Be prepared to loose all sense of reason.

As to calling me Sir, I've always frowned at students who called me Sir, and that was very rare that any of them did, since increasingly nowadays Sir is some form of scarcasm. But thanks for the dignity of Sir if it was intended.

Just I guess having only a "one size fits all" approach to dialogue, and not therefore being good at deference, I don't look for it in others. And also there's that aspergers thing of not liking flattery or compliments (because of feeling its not deserved, or simply sensory handling of emotions).

Hello Longman Sir,

I'm not sure if you were addressing me or IntenseWorld, however your mentioning of "Council incompetence" compels me to mention the fact that my local Council broke their own "laws" spending 800 thousand pounds on a recycling plant which never got built as they had no planning permission. They then spent a further 250 grand on "Private" report which has not been made public investigating what went wrong... so why exactly would I wish to pay a corrupt, criminal and incompetent Council a single penny??? The "leader" at the time resigned and was given another £80,000 "golden handshake" if I remember correctly, and they're demanding money which I do not have to compensate them???

Please forgive me if your comment was aimed at IntenseWorld, but I felt as it was in my thread and was relevant it was acceptable to respond.

Safe journeys sir,
Dream

Reminds me that during the last recession (early 1980s) I was out of work for over a year, before I finally took up teaching. I had fortuitously taken on mortgage insurance that covered me most of that time.

Being out of work I was able to claim a rates reduction, quite substantial. But because interest rates were coming down (sometimes more than once a month) that meant there was a balance between the mortgage insurance payment and the actual mortgage. My local authority (at that time Preston) wrote to me every interest rate reduction and asked me to declare the difference between actual interest and the amount of my insurance payment, and took the full amount off me, even though it was mere shillings each time.

Indeed there was an incident at the time reported in the paper that an elderly lady had been, through their error, a penny short in her rates, and they took her to court to recover the penny.

For the petty sums involved the amount of expenditure in administering these communications and reassessments vastly outweighed the gains for the council. But that's why councils are always strapped for cash - the wastage is astronomical - most of or rates are spent funding fiscal incompetence on an interplanetary scale.

The Council started "demanding" a portion of "Council Tax" from me, apparently the "Govern-mentis" (govern from the Greek meaning "control" originally "to steer cattle" and ment from the Latin "mentis" meaning mind, so Government literally means control the mind, and I ask you, who would vote for ANYONE to control their mind?!?).

Anyway, point being, to quote some Government babble:
"For the purposes of the Act a person is severely mentally impaired “if he has a severe impairment of intelligence and social functioning (however caused) which appears to be permanent”. This definition applies only for the purposes of the Local Government Finance Act 1992. The definition is not the same as the definition of “severe mental impairment” in the Mental Health Act 1983."

Now a GP being "general" may not seize, grasp or comprehend the difference between "medical" and "legal" as they are completely different languages, however if explained to them that the definition is neither "common parlance" nor "medical", a thoughtful and kind hearted GP may be prepared to "Authorise" ("Act" as the "author" and "claim authority") to rubber stamp the Council's documents if the GP accepts those on the Autistic Spectrum are "wired differently"... maybe I've just been lucky with my GP (who recently retired which also caused an Aspie "meltdown" - which I didn't realise was actually a technical term!), and lucky also that the AD(H)D doctor happened to have been interviewed in the Rory Bremner radio program which alerted me to it being a "real" condition (as opposed to a pharmaceutical conspiracy to sell drugs to kids).

I totally understand about coping levels changing depending upon external environmental factors, when the Council did not "respond" in the correct manner to my "Notice" I saw the envelope fall through the letterbox and for 10 days could not get off my settee (apart from the obvious necessities!). Part of what I think of as my "misanthropy" (distrust and dislike of our species) is that I've often felt like I'm amongst robotic ant like beings, no thoughts running through their minds. For some reason these type of people always appear first choice for employment in "government agencies" who say things like "I'm just doing my job, following orders"... grrrr... that defense didn't hold up in the Nuremberg Trials and it won't wash with me, people need to realise their are consequences to their actions and they are ALL "commercially liable".... Did you know that "all 'orders' are 'chargeable'?" You wouldn't go into a chip shop and order food then not pay for it would you? Sorry, I'm ranting again aren't I....

I had no idea the government were passing an "Autism Act", I'll have to look into that. One of my fears is exactly as you say, ASD will be "normalised" and the "powers that be" will decide everyone has SOME form of autism. I'm not "normal", I never have been and never will be... mind you, "normal" doesn't actually exist in my book seeing as we're all unique individuals, however my differences are debilitating and disabling and I will never "fit" into a generalised societies acceptable scale of values (square peg round hole sort of thing). Well you said the same thing yourself really didn't you, "normal according to what society deems the term to mean".

That was something else that came into my mind after we'd been discussing Words being Swords, words also have a "magical quality" to them, we were taught how to "Spell" were we not? So words are spells when used correctly... and I do think the "higher up the ladder one goes" concerning those "in power", the more likely we are to find we are accepted and understood.

LoL, thanks for giving me a good chuckle with the "The system was not made for us, and it's a diabolical fight the whole way.  (Therein lies another conspiracy theory)" line, I have joked the world is run by demons and devil worshippers, but is there not a quote "many a true word spoken in jest"? *chuckle*

Would you mind me asking what meds you're on which make your AS worse in some way? Obviously that's just a "request" with no "obligation" to answer, it's just that I've found the Concerta XL don't make me feel any different, and yet my mother, sister and one guy I've known a while think I've been different since I've been on them. SSRI's just make me feel more nauseous (and I've had stomach problems since I was a child) or they make me sleep for 16+ hours a day (so a chemical cosh is supposed to "enable" me?!?).

Regards "labels", I'm kind of looking forward to receiving my "Autism Alert" card now I've joined. The last conversation I had when stopped by the Police a few years back was quite a surreal experience, I "informed" him I'd been "studying law" and was VERY careful how I answered his questions. In retrospect, knowing much more than I did at that juncture I would have been even MORE careful, like when he asked me if I had a license I should have said "for what? fishing?", and when he said he'd stopped me "randomly" I should have enquired how he determined "random", was he sitting in the car throwing dice? Anyway, it got weird when he asked me my name and I told him (hand in the air) "At common-law I go by the name Dream, and I really DO sir" to which he replied sternly "what is the name on your license"! Maybe I am mad, but then the world made me so :-) At least when I get my "Autism Alert" card I can pull it out like a "warrant card"... I may even make my own with "improvements" once I've seen what it says *chuckle* You know the Police are no longer taught they have NO more "power" than us? At least in my day we were taught about that sort of thing *sigh*.

Anywayz, many thanks for "engaging" with me IntenseWorld, it's great to interact with another mind of similar ilk, albeit through the aetherial intangible world of "cyberspace".

You seemed to be managing very well without me, IntenseWorld. I take your point though it is getting into my sphere of concern about establishment understanding of what it is we've got.

I found I had some things in common with Dream's early history, eg all boys school, coming away with a small group of O'levels, but my life changed in my twenties by going to FE College and finding myself, and then going degree, PhD and research, which gave me the mental stimulus and ability to keep occupied that has sustained me since.

I could have followed the same route as Dean, having tried insurance and journalism and a few other odd jobs, I might have stayed quite happily in something based on routines. But I also perceive I wouldn't have been able to keep intensely absorbed in things, and that's the really difficult issue for people on the spectrum, finding adequately fulfilling escape routes from socialising.

NTs spend an inordinate amount of time just chatting and interacting. If you're not into it, and not raising kids, then there's a huge amount of time that needs something to fill it. If you cannot fulfil that vacuum that pushes you back into the NT world where we are not equipped to cope well without consequences. And also lack of occupation increases the inclination to spiralling anxiety and negative reinforcement.

(@Longman, c'mon and join in, there is a grand discussion to be had here.)

Huh?  The council is demanding payment for what?

Glad you have an understanding psychiatrist.  There aren't too many of those about.

What these agencies don't seem to understand, is that ASC isn't a static condition.  Coping levels change depending on environment and other factors.  Existential stress accumulates until you get to a point of "Aspie burnout" and your functioning actually declines.  I don't know if it ever returns to pre-burnout levels either.  So I am flummoxed and despairing over the DWP imagining with the passage of time, someone with AS can suddenly bounce back and be unimpaired, undisabled and "normal".  I will never be "normal" according to what society deems the term to mean.  Even my meds make my AS traits worse as they remove some of the social anxiety that stops me being as forthright, repetitive, annoying etc.  The system was not made for us, and it's a diabolical fight the whole way.  (Therein lies another conspiracy theory).

I believe the government is giving with one hand and taking away with the other.  Passing an Autism Act and Autism Strategy, then not policing it and probably giving instructions to diagnostic agencies to avoid diagnosing as many people as possible.  Then they don't have to provide the supports.

Severe mental impairment, I like it.  I may put a post-it note on my forehead stating those very words.

Oh I'm glad I'm not the only one with conspiracy DVDs.  I won't mention the books then...

I'm only surviving on ESA and am in that work activity group thing not the support group. To be fair to JobCentrePlus (a trading name of the Department of Work and Pensions I believe), the woman there has been really understanding as she could obviously see how just being in the building was freaking me out, so now they write to me to make an appointment to phone me (because I don't/won't/can't answer my phone most of the time), fulfilling their "legal obligations" every few months but leaving me in peace.

Now I've actually got an "official diagnosis", I find DLA has been scrapped, PIP sounds like a nightmare as it's the French data collection agency ATOS (who somehow managed to "diversify" and set up a subsidiary company "ATOS Healthcare" who's mandate is to remove people from the "Benefit System")... on top of all that, ALL "Benefits" will be abolished by 2017 to be replaced by "Universal Credit", so I have to ask, "Is there no longer any benefit to my existence? And since when did the 'Universe' become a 'bank' handing out 'credit'???"... it makes no sense to me

Ohhhh, it's enough to drive a man to drink!

Something else that's mad, which you may not be aware of and I had to explain to my AD(H)D psychiatrist. It seems Council's now demand "some" payment off everyone (which my nature unfortunately prevents me participating in, like you're "threatened" with a £1000 fine for not "Registering to Vote", but that's all legislative nonsense). Anyway, there IS a "Remedy" for us which the Council "Offered" me when I sent back all their paperwork with "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND" scrawled across the "Bill" (understand actually means to stand-under another's claimed authority), I included the DWP paperwork which said "no tax will be deducted from my "income-related" benefit (it can't be the legal definition of "income" otherwise it wouldn't be hyphenated) and then scrawled "Deduct from Source". The "Remedy" is to get one's GP to rubber-stamp the Council's paperwork stating one is "Severely Mentally Impaired". Now this sounds REALLY bad, however as I explained to my Shrink, it's NOT MEDICAL, it's a LEGAL definition!!! He wrote a letter which "Authorised" my GP to rubber-stamp the Council paperwork, so the Council (who ignored all my Notices although after many months still did not take me to Court) finally sent me something saying I was not eligible for Council Tax Subsidies as I was not liable to pay Council Tax!

Interestingly, I discussed this with the psychologist who diagnosed my Aspergers and she said she couldn't believe it when it was brought to her attention some time back, however she researched it, discovered it was medically meaningless, and now does the same thing as my psychiatrist does. Obviously Atos have been sent a copy of my "Severe Mental Impairment" label too, but I've not idea whether they know what's going on... the world is truly insane...

We'd better not compare conspiracy DVD's, I have more than I can count on more subjects than I even care about any more! *chuckle*

...you'd like my collection of conspiracy DVDs then!

It's funny, I used to have conversations about all this stuff on another ASC forum with a guy in America who was heavily into conspiracy theories too and had found out some stuff related to technologies.  I think I have an inkling about what you mean.

Yes I've had a less than satisfactory experience with the DWP about DLA.  Despite them knowing AS is a lifelong condition, which is exacerbated by other factors, they are going to review the paltry amount they awarded me within 2 years.  Do they think there will be a cure for Asperger's by then I wonder.  Considering that many of us (70%+) have co-morbid mental health issues, topped off by exacerbating factors/extenuating circumstances in my case, I don't know how they think a magic wand will have made it all OK by then.  I really need to write to them but barely have the wherewithall at the moment.

Hahaha, I do indeed have an enquiring and curious mind, but the cat is not dead yet ;-) *chuckle*

I too feel suspicion and skepticism are healthy attributes, most minds could neither comprehend nor imagine that which is being kept from us (even if shown evidence). I cannot say how or who I have come to know some of the things I know from, but let us say the "military industrial complex" are well aware of technologies we peasants would benefit from access to!

I fully intend "sticking around" here, you have made me feel most welcome thank you. I feel I must be relatively wary of what I choose to share though, I'm just reading the "ESA and possibly ADD" post by WishFace. I resonate with much of what many people are saying, I had 3 awful experiences with ATOS and am awaiting to hear back to see if I'm forced to attend a 4th.

The trouble is, the approach I took when the 2nd interviewer "misrepresented" (or outright lied) and the DWP stopped my benefits and said I needed to fill in form blah blah blah to "Appeal" was NOT "conventional". My "understanding" and differentiation between "legal" and "lawful" meant I had to follow my own path, sending a "Notice" (NOT a "letter") demanding answers to questions. The DWP replied that they took my "letter" (which it wasn't) as a "Formal Appeal" and after a couple of months reversed their decision without me having to go to a "Tribunal" (a Court). I have not heard of that happening before, and I doubt it would work for most others, so it's really not a good idea for me to start sharing such "experiences" as they may be more detrimental than beneficial, and the LAST thing I want to do is cause any one further problems or complicate their lives.

It is absolutely tragic to read some of these posts though, truly painful, and I was even shocked by a couple of the comments which appeared almost attacking in nature (although that could just be how I interpreted them).

...well you express yourself very intelligently indeed and clearly have an enquiring mind.

Conspiracy theories, I am actually very interested in, and I maintain a very healthy index of suspicion as I do believe a lot is hidden from the general public.

Your story about the reverse DNS lookups made me laugh!  They do say curiosity killed the cat! (joke)

You are an absolute mine of information, do stick around on here!

Well you seem very smart to me Dream.

Don't get me started on conspiracy theories!

I like your outlook and you have clearly read up a lot.

Suppressed medical technologies interest me too.  I guess you know about bio-resonance that clears the body of viruses, parasites and bacteria that can cause cancer?

I believe the heart is supposed to contain memories and that this is where sayings about the heart came from.

It's amazing how many people will scorn conspiracy theories, but have such closed minds and are part of "the system", not wanting to question anything that they know and recognise.

You have nothing to apologise to me for IntenseWorld, and no obligation to reply to my ramblings, I just enjoyed the chat thank you :-)
Hope you have a good day :-)

Sorry Dream,

time and responsibilities took over.  Will reply to your very interesting post above later today!

Thanks for taking the time to "talk" at such length.

ROFL, yes, you're right, I did mean Simon not Sacha (I get confused easily *chuckle*), I don't like Ali G, and from what my mum has read out to me I don't like Simon either (although due credit to the guy, it is my understanding it is he who diagnosed that poor chap Gary Mckinnon with Aspergers who had been searching for proof of a UFO cover-up and prevented his extradition to the US).

Are Simon and Sacha really cousins or was that a "word-play" joke?

Babies stare at me too, feels really creepy to be honest. That said, the "human aura" is scientifically measurable (although probably not referred to with that phrase). The electromagnetic field of the brain can be measured externally, hardly surprising as we are bio-electric beings. What IS surprising is that the heart generates a magnetic field faaaar greater than the brain and can be measured from something like 10 feet away (but don't quote me on that!). I did about 7-10 years of obsessive research on suppressed medical technologies when my father died, however I got sick of the mocking as I have no "credibility", and also don't really care anymore as I really thought people would look at "evidence", and that is just not the case!

There is a suggestion that babies can "see" aura's, which is why they stare at some people and not others, also that if one pays attention they will notice the baby staring slightly above their head and not directly at their eyes... I have no idea if this is true or not, I just remember reading about it.

Hahaha, yes, "allusions to conspiracy theories"... I had a member of the Labour Party say to me once when I was talking to him about 9/11 "You're one of those conspiracy theorists aren't you", to which I replied "Ohhhh, you must be a coincidence theorist"! People forget, that Gravity is only a Theory, and yet it is now taught as "fact". At least when I was at school we were taught one can NEVER prove a theory, only disprove it. It's basic Socratic reasoning, we observe and form a theory, then gather evidence to support it, but it only takes a SINGLE piece of evidence to disprove a theory.

I'm really not a smart bloke, and yet I've met so many supposedly highly intelligent and intellectual people who dismiss evidence without even looking at it because it doesn't "fit" their "belief structure". I showed my CBT counsellor the superb research of Dr. Bruce Lipton "the new biology where mind and matter meet" which show that Darwin's theory of evolution is experimentally proven wrong (not that evolution is wrong, just that "random mutations" and "survival of the fittest" is provably and demonstrably incorrect under laboratory conditions). Our species has spent BILLIONS on the Large Hadron Collider seeking out the Higgs Boson particle, which they suddenly claim to have found last year, but it was a euphoric "press release", no peer reviewed journal publication... why? Because it wasn't true, particles don't exist, they're an illusion of the "collapse of the wave function" if one wants to use the "quantum mechanics" model (and as Robert Anton Wilson made clear to me, the map is not the territory, the menu is not the meal). This is why I said in my original post about us all being of equal value, because each and every one of us creates a different mental model, but it's not real, it's just a model....

Sorry, I'm going into rant mode, next thing you know I'll be demanding everyone question why "global warming" suddenly became "climate change".... I mean, "climate change", is that not the most insane, meaningless and banal phrase ever?!? And has anyone ever wondered why THE SUN is not included in research on "global warming" or why other planets such as Mars have increased in temperature??? *sigh*

Back in the early 90's I was interested in UFO's, after years of research all I could PROVE and knew for sure was that "we're being lied to". A guy said to me, "Why are you so surprised conspiracies exist? It only takes two people to conspire, they're happening every day". I hadn't thought of it on a statistical level. He went on to point out that there were hundreds of thousands of people CLAIMING to have been abducted by aliens, but only ONE of them needed to be true to change the whole "we're alone in the universe" paradigm.

Well I must thank you again IntenseWorld, for at the very least allowing me to vent my frustrations into the aether in this forum. I am aware I am an extremely complex being, paradoxical and profound in nature, and I will take it as a compliment assuming you think being "profound, philosophical and deep" is a good thing *chuckle*. It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it! The trouble is, "thinking" can make one "unemployable" as there is no "profit" to be found in "bucking the system" or "fighting the machine". I was lucky to work for my parents for so many years, they accepted when I just couldn't face going to work or couldn't face seeing customers (although my dad did threaten to sack me and close the business on a number of occasions!). All this Aspergers stuff is from his side of the family though, and I'm still angry at him for dying back in 2001, all the grief he gave me about "being British" and having a "stiff upper lip" and then the bar-stuard goes and gives up on life at the age of 57... grrrrrr.....

Sorry, it's late and I've had a tipple now... are you sure I'm not going to get banned?!? Thanks again for the "meeting of minds", I would urge you to start picking up the guitar, if only for a few minutes a day. Check out some website which shows the chord positions, E, A and D are the basis of sooooo many songs, then you can learn a C and G and within only a few weeks you'll find you can start producing sounds that are not just random noise (I assume you have some natural rhythm and timing? I can't sing to save my life, but then some people seem to think I can, so that's obviously not important, but "playing from the heart" and keeping a beat probably is).

Thanks again, safe and peaceful journeys to thee and thine, Dream.