Trying to understand?

I wouldn't even date.

A friend last year made it known to me he wanted to date me.  I ran a mile from then on.  There was no chance. If he hadn't made that known he might have got to meet in a cafe seperate from our mutual friends. But from that moment on I didn't even give him a chance. I feel guilty now for reasons not for here. The guilt has gone but not at first.

Dating can be impossible for us and the old clique is me not you, really is reality.

Don't think about it in terms of relationship as in dating.  Just be mutual friends and let things happen naturally.

You done nothing wrong and neither them. It very hard for us.  Best you can do is just having a natural friendship and let nature take its course. It hard for you may be but the best way.

Stick to texting and facebook friends may be and enjoy what you have as friends.

It nothing personal I don't think. it just very very hard for us to 'date'. If it happens one is is so lucky. But anything like me, it will never happen because I run a mile if i even wiff anything stronger than good friends.

Hope that helps a little

Tryingtounderstand said:

I think what you said regarding going round and round in circles your completely correct, we shout and scream then say sorry then have the same conversation two minutes after. Last night I have told him to get in contact with me when he sorts his head out or if he needs me, this is a very hard thing to do but i feel like I need to focus on myself and get my self sorted before I can be there for him. 

Is there much help that is avaliable to him? Because I think he needs it, he has got a lot of problems That he has never dealt with. 

This brings to mind the concept of "codependency". Not that I'm especially informed about codependency, but from my basic understanding I think it might be something that could help you to gain more insight into what sounds like dysfunction in your relationship. Although the concept arise from an alcohol context and that aspect may not be directly relevant to your relationship, the underlying principles may be relevant. For example:

"Some codependents often find themselves in relationships where their primary role is that of rescuer, supporter, and confidante. These helper types are often dependent on the other person's poor functioning to satisfy their own emotional needs." Taken from en.m.wikipedia.org/.../Codependency (yeah, a source of variable quality, but a useful starting point, I find)

So I'm not trying to presume, just suggesting in case it helps you to get a different perspective on your relationship. I was encouraged when I read that you feel like you need to focus on yourself, then the next but, asking about what help is available to him sounds like you could be drawn back to the status quo where you are seeking to resolve his difficulties, but this is contrary to telling him to contact you once he sorts his head out.

I'm not saying this to upset you or jump to conclusions, just to point out the "alarm bells" I have picked up on. I hope you find a more satisfactory way of being in whatever way you need.

He says that he has never got the help or support he needed from any health care provider he feels like they have given up on him aswell as everyone else. 

I think what you said regarding going round and round in circles your completely correct, we shout and scream then say sorry then have the same conversation two minutes after. Last night I have told him to get in contact with me when he sorts his head out or if he needs me, this is a very hard thing to do but i feel like I need to focus on myself and get my self sorted before I can be there for him. 

Is there much help that is avaliable to him? Because I think he needs it, he has got a lot of problems That he has never dealt with. 

I don't know what being lost in the system for years actually means? 

When a relationship gets to the situation you've described, you can find yourselves going round in circles talking (or shouting, or sulking) about things and not getting anywhere. I find it can be better to try to "wipe the slate clean" - put what has happened to the back of your mind and focus on how you would like things to be and come up with a plan of action to get you to that point. This might involve moving to a new home, getting a new job, learning a new skill, travelling to somewhere you've always wanted to visit, etc. This gives you something to focus on and look forward to - maybe you could suggest this to him and discuss what you both want to do with your lives? 

You need to look after yourself too. Do you tell him how unhappy it makes you when things aren't going well between you?  Do you think it might be that he thinks you're stronger than you actually are and you don't need him? Maybe you should ask him for help and support? You should also talk to someone outside of the relationship that you trust - your mum or a good friend maybe - to help you get things out of your system. 

Take care,  Pixie 

So we spoke all day yesterday he didn't want to talk about it so I just brushed it under the carpet for a while, as I don't want to push him into anything, I explained that I'm trying to understand, his reply was "ive been lost in the system for years you'll never get it" 

today we had a blow up I said one thing he didn't like and it All went of, he does this quite often i call them his moments he goes into himself and doesn't want to talk, however hes not eating or seeing his friends he's got history of depression and I just don't think it's fair to walk away. However I feel like I'm loosing my mind 

thanks

T

I'm glad what I've said has been of some help to you.

Regarding your mum contacting him, if she leaves it a few days to let him think about things first I think that would be OK, but I would think it might be better for her to text him rather than try to ring him - if he's feeling a bit guilty about trying to end your relationship, he might worry about what she's going to say and not answer her call. A text message will give her the chance to communicate and him the chance to read and think about what she says. It may help him to realise that she cares about him and she's not just going to take your side (which I'm assuming she won't)

I'm wondering that if you were totally neuro-typical maybe you would just walk away - I'm not sure about this, however I was wondering if you have ever taken the AQ test to see if you have some aspergers/autism traits? Females often don't get diagnosed because they learn to mimic neurotypical behaviour. You could also look at the website of Tania A Marshall too, who is a psychologist currently compiling a list of female asperger traits, to see if you identify with any of them. Let me know if you're interested and I can post the links.

as I know him on a personal level I believe i would know if he didn't want to be with me. And yes you are correct he has never said this? 

I took your advice and wrote him a letter explaining exactly how I felt, as sometimes what I want to say in my head doesn't come out loads of Nasty vile words come out. And he text this morning again apologising for what and how he's done it, I put some of your points across. E.g. Testing me, thinking he can't give me the life I 'want' & his reply was that seems solid I'm not ready to talk yet though. And I'm going to respect that. 

But on the other hand he's never had someone consistent in his life, mom, dad sister come and go as they please. I plan on staying around even as just a friendship to let him know I'm not giving up on him and I have faith in him. 

When we was together he formed an amazing bond with my mom, she has said she's going to text him/phone him in a couple of days to just check in to let him know people care? 

in your opinion is this the correct step to make? 

Your advice is extrem helpful, im just so worried 

thanks

T 

Hi T

Clovis said "He may still love you but he has said he doesn't want to be with you. Thats hard to bear but he's an intelligent adult and has made his decision."

I understand the reasoning in this statement, however I don't remember you saying that he had actually said he doesn't want to be with you? Didn't he say that his autism makes a relationship difficult for him and that he thinks you'll leave him at some point in the future if he doesn't finish it now? Maybe he really means he loves you so much he's terrified of losing you, but having convinced himself this is going to happen it's easier for him if he has control over when it happens? 

I don't believe someone with Autism or aspergers falls deeply in love with someone and then just suddenly falls out of love with them. We're obsessives, for goodness sake! 

You deserve an answer about what is going on - whether he has autism or not is irrelevant to that. 

Honesty, loyalty, perseverance and individuality are qualities he should identify with and value, so bear this in mind. 

Tell him how much you love him. Explain that you think it's not fair that he makes a decision that will make your life unbearable and that you cannot understand (he's likely to have a strong sense of fairness and justice). Tell him all the things you like about him, then ask him what attracted him to you.

Remind him that although you don't have autism, you're still an individual with the ability to learn and adapt and you're trying hard to understand him, and you also have fears and anxieties (give him examples), so he needs to try to understand and help you too. Maybe asking him for help and showing that you trust him will raise his self esteem, which I think is the main issue here.

I have never had to question whethe he loves me, I know he's completely head over heels in love with me, he used to lay awake for hours at night when I was fast asleep just watching me and talking to me, at first I found that weird, but I understood eventually. 

i never mentioned to him that I wanted a 'perfect life' as he would call it,  used to keep it in my head as I never wanted to put pressure on him. He always said he never wanted children, that was fine with me, I was willing and still willing to give up children for him. 

What I can't get right in my head is that he wanted the relationship he asked me to be with him and was the first one to say he loved me, so I don't understand how he can do that then do this?

all your comments are really helping me, I feel like I'm able to get in his head a little. I have never had any previous experience with Autism, and maybe I didn't know what I was letting myself in for. 

The love I have for him is so immense I wish he would understand that, he may think that he will let me down, or not give me what i deserve but do I get no say in this?

Hi again. I just read John and Trogluddite's recent posts and they have given some good advice and ideas which hopefully will help you.

I'm a female with aspergers, married to a man who also has it, although we only found this out recently. The fact that we "get" each other doesn't help though when you're in the middle of an argument where both of you see things as black and white, so neither wants to back down as this would be admitting to yourself that you're "wrong". Not all our traits are the same, so we've had to learn how to deal with each other and it's still not always easy, but no long term relationship is.

Have you seen the horizon programme about autism which is available on BBC iplayer? There was a couple on it who both have aspergers and the wife was saying how they don't go out (she said "where would we go?) so maybe your partner thinks he will stop you doing things you want. Perhaps you should remind him that everyone is different - we all have differing likes and needs, issues and fears, and all couples need to learn about each other to get on well together. 

I think your idea of talking to him about the good times you've had together is a good one. You need to try and bring him around to a positive view of the relationship. Being with someone you love who loves you back is the best thing in the world in my opinion.

Hi,

I'm certainly familiar with the traits of Alexithymia that John describes so well.  A very important factor with this, is to allow plenty of time for emotions to "sink in" - I usually know that I'm feeling "something", but it will take me days to work out exactly which emotion it is.  Pixiefox's suggestion of writing it all down clearly in an e-mail is a very good one I think - having something written down like that, to refer to later when the emotions do start to become more clear, is something that I would definitely find helpful in that situation.

I think you should definitely consider that it may not be the relationship in its current form that is a problem for him - he may in fact just be very worried about how the relationship would turn out in the long run.  Fretting about unforeseen problems in the future can be a big problem for people on the autistic spectrum, as we often loathe uncertainty.  Ending the relationship may not necessarily be what he really wants.  He may just have become very fixated on the idea that he has difficulties dealing with emotions, and that this would cause him to "let you down" at times in the future where you need his emotional support.  Ironically, he may want to end the relationship because he loves you enough that the idea of accidentally hurting your feelings in the future is too much for him to bear, or that he would be keeping you from finding someone more "worthy" of your affection.

Even very practical things can be a big worry.  For example, I have a huge need for plenty of time in my own space, and doubt very much whether I could share the same house with someone every day.  And I'm absolutely certain that I could not routinely share a bed, as I would simply never sleep!  He may be under the impression that such things are absolutely necessary for your relationship to be successful - society is constantly reinforcing the idea that those things are how "normal" relationships are supposed to progress.

So I think you should be very clear with him about what you would expect for the future if he decides to continue the relationship.  If you are happy to remain committed to him, while accepting that your relationship and living arrangements might sometimes be very different than most couples expect, then you need to let him know this.

I think another book that's really useful is "The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome" by Tony Attwood. I've read both of them from the position of trying to understand who I am, but think they'd be good for someone trying to understand who someone else is.

Okay so what I'm picking up is, I need to let him know exactly how I feel using facts, could these be what we done in our relationship that made us laugh/smile? 

I also need to reassure him that Ill always be there for him, and I'm trying to understand? 

He doesn't come from a stable family at all and I am more than worried about him because he told me that before I came along his life was a mess, i want to be able to support him the way his family doesnt? 

im going to get that book as it is very important for me to be able to understand and help him, also there isnt much out there as to this subject?

Thanks 

T

Tryingtounderstand said:

He used to tell me he misses people for like a day then gets over it, is this correct?

I came across Alexithemia recently. It's related to problems with recognising and expressing feelings. I read something someone had written about not missing people, that I could relate to. This may not be relavant to your situation, but it shows that people do experience the problem. I can spend time with someone I like, but when it's time to move on (maybe after spending time together, or due to a change in circumstances), I don't stay in touch. I don't forget the person, but it's as though they're not part of my life any more. There's nothing that drives me to stay in touch, and I'm often not sure if they'd like me to stay in touch, so I don't even send an occasional text to say hello, or a Christmas card. But if they get in touch with me, and want to make an effort to meet up, I'd be happy to do it, and pick up where we left off. I'm sure that I have feelings I'm not aware of, so maybe somewhere deep inside I do miss them, but I don't seem to feel it.

So I'd say that what you asked could be correct, or at least seem to him to be correct.

I think it was someone on this forum who suggested the book "Living Well on the Spectrum" by Valerie Gaus. It's full of worksheets for identifying and dealing with problems, and has a chapter on "Dating, Sex, and Marriage". It might lead to some better understanding, and some practical ways to work out some solutions. I think it would be well worth reading.

The book has some good advice on how to communicate, separating facts, how you feel and what you need. Avoid being judgemental, and don't play the games that I think are normal in relationships, where you say one thing, but actually mean something else.

I think I'd respond best to Pixie's suggestion of putting everything in an e-mail. It would give me time to think about it, and I could respond when I felt up to it. He may well have problems with Executive Function that make it hard to deal with things, so make it as easy as possible for him. Problems with Executive Function aren't laziness, although they might appear to be.

I just can't get in his head, and I will never be able to, he thinks I'm not cut out to deal with him, how can he make that decision for me? do I get no say in this? 

I was previously in a seven year relationship, and I never loved my ex like I love him. 

its horrible to say but part of me hopes he's hurting like i am, and then the other part doesn't because he can't deal with his emotions. He used to tell me he misses people for like a day then gets over it, is this correct?

i don't know how I can make it work because I have so many questions it's just not making sence in my head?

your advice is a massive help to me 

thanks 

T 

Hi T

Maybe it's to do with something one of his friends has said? Maybe they are jealous of you, or maybe they've teased him good naturedly if he's ever chosen to see you rather than them? 

Another idea is that he might be testing how much you care about him (maybe unconsciously, not necessarily deliberately) 

John made some good points about how he can't deal with difficult situations by discussing them. Perhaps you could try writing your partner an email in which you are totally honest and open about what you think and what you want, and ask him what he honestly wants. This will enable him to read and think about it, which a face to face discussion won't. Rather than discussing feelings, stick to facts, thoughts, ideas and beliefs (e g. I love you,  I think we should try and make it work, I believe we could have a great future together) 

I can't guarantee anything I've suggested will be any help and I know it must be very painful for you, but try not to give up yet. 

Take care,  Pixie.

We had the most amazing relationship, he fell in love quick, we both did, always laughing and smiling. His two best friends he has an amazing friendship with and I always felt a bit jealous, because he couldnt talk to me like those, how can he hold down that friendship but do this to me? 

I think what he's done Is sat in his bedroom thinking about things that isn't there, how do I let him know I'm trying to understand? And I'll always be here, he doesn't believe this and wants to cut it of as "I'm going to leave eventually?" maybe I should have done this sooner, I just didn't know the relationship was in trouble there was no argument? Just a text of the morning? I could be totally wrong, I just cannot get in his head? 

I'm part way through my assessment, and haven't got a diagnosis yet, so can't be sure this might be helpful. I've never managed a relationship anywhere near as long as yours, but one thing I've realised, is that I don't handle difficult situations involving people well, and not just in intimate relationships. When I'm in a stressful situation, I think I act in an all or nothing way. I either put up with it, or I have to get out. I'm too overwhelmed by it to be able to resolve the issue by discussing it, or working out some kind of solution or compromise. Maybe a long time later I think of a way the situation could have been resolved, but it's far too late by then, as we've moved on.

I'm in a different kind of difficult situation at the moment. I can think of ways to resolve it, but when it comes to acting, and especially working out how I can connect with the people I need to deal with, the whole thing falls into a black hole. It's like there's a module in my head that handles superficial connections with other people that works fairly well, but the module that handles difficult connections is missing, or faulty.

I've never formed such a close connection as you seem to have done, and I don't think anyone has ever stuck with it after this has happened to me, the way you're trying to, so I can't make any suggestions about what you could do. But maybe there's something I've written that might be some use.