Hell

Some vaccines have probably been poisonous but vaccines have saved many lives and prevented many people from developing terrible problems like polio. How many people do you know with polio? It used to be a common disease in this country. The MMR issue lead to a rise in people refusing to immunise their children and this lead to a rise in children suffering terrible consequences. The alleged surge in autism is more linked to the rise in recognition of the condition than anything else. I can trace my autism back through my family's eccentric members well before the MMR vaccine or anything like that was invented.

I used to get into a lot of battles but have found that I am much more chilled since diagnosis. I make a big effort to go with the flow and not pick fights. I also see that my inability to understand people contributes to misunderstandings and that leads to disputes. On the other hand, modern life can be brutal and companies seem incapable of dealing with people as human beings at times. Pick your fights but try not to fight everything.

I was told at diagnosis that the wellbeing of an individual with autism is primarily linked to their environment. If the environment is hostile and uncaring then you will not do well. If the environment is more agreeable then you may not have a problem. Autistic children are more sensitve to their upbringing than others and an unloving childhood can only have a lasting impact on the mental balance of the child. People can learn new ways of thinking and living though and I think it is possible to unpick one's past and try and understand why the bad things happened. If you can understand it then you might be able to move on and not let it spoil any more of your life than it already has.

Thanks for your comments RSocks, yes have been doing a lot of thinking about this. I am sure my Father has aspergers, and have been wondering if it is on my Mother's side as well. His aspergers does explain some things, but I feel in my upbringing, he did have a choice for many of his actions.

Particularly the manipulative behaviour, where he picked up on my fears and difficulties throughout my childhood and teenage years, and intentionally went out of his way to build on those. I do blame him, but for the actions he certainly was aware. I was a shy, quiet child, there was no need for him to gain any extra control.

I would agree that I gain nothing for blaming him, but understanding what has happened will hopefully give me a better insight in to how my difficulties have evolved through my life, which I am still struggling with to this day.

Random

Very interesting, you have clearly done much research into this. I did a lot of research on vaccines in general, and if I ever have children they are NOT getting them, even the base for vaccines before they put the "vaccine" into it is poison.

You are right about the sheeple very much, I fight on average 3-6 companies a month, I don't go out seeking this, I guess we just see flaws in systems that others do not.

A lot of companies have had to restructure their entire systems because of me.

I will add that to recommended books I have got from people here, thank you, no I have not read it.

You have raised a very interesting question for me though, I found out that I was mostly ignore by Mother as a very young child, so will this have a bearing on Autistic development then?

Hi Beltane,

I'm glad that our thoughts are resonating with you. There is a lot that is unknown about autism and how its affects play out in life and everything.

The genetic link is very strong and obvious in a lot of cases but some cases don't have an obvious cause. I think that one of the problems is that autism is described mainly by its symptoms rather than by a straightforward lab test so I think there are autistic behaviours that come from a variety of roots. Being deaf and/or blind is an obvious case where the isolation imposed by those disabilities causes autism like behaviour.

Dr Wakefield has been struck off for his part in the vaccine story. It turned out that he was making up data to suit the theory that he was convinced was real. His obsessional and narrow minded approach (now, where might he have got that from?) is common among scientists and it can lead to great revelations however it can also lead to bad results if someone fits the data to suit their theory. Having said that, "Absence of evidence does not imply evidence of absence" so there may still be some link but nobody has found the proof yet. One issue with the vaccines is that they are used at an age where autism is often not evident before the vaccination, as the child is too young, but the autism may be discovered after vaccination because the child is then old enough to be tested. Then, when people look for a cause (because people like to find something to blame for their misfortune) they identify the vaccination as an event that could have triggered the change.

I don't agree with the "next evolution" ideas. I don't think we are better or worse than anyone else. We definitely help society by standing up against the sheep/lemming like behaviour that is a common feature of human behaviour. But, if everyone was as awkward and argumentative as us then nothing would get done!

Have you read the Neurotribes book? I found it challenging as some of the history of the discovery and treatment of autism is distinctly disconcerting and uncomfortable but the author does point out how we can use online forums like this to make something of a community where we can be understood.

Thanks for the comments recombinantsocks (I had a knickname of "socks" at my first college as it was 80's and everyone was suddenly wearing bright flourescent oranges and lime greens, so instead of wearing my usual all black, I added flourescent socks, 14 pairs, a colour for each weeday lol, it was my secret way of taking the mickey out of that silly fashion trend, but people just thought it was cool and I got the nick-name socks. When I finished college, I ceromoniously burned them all in a big fire lol).

It is intersting to hear your thoughts. From my own research, I believe currently autism may be genetic, but also I think vaccines may be a root cause, seriously dangerous things. But part of me thinks maybe it's the next evolution of mankind along with people with synesthesia and the like.

I have noticed one very important thing though as I am brand new to all this, you guys are great, all intelligent, open and straight to the point, wish people in the real world were like that!

Thanks for the reply random, it is interesting to hear your experiences, your understanding of peoples empathy for animals I found interesting! They really kept me alive as a child, without them I honestly probably would not be here.

Yes, I am at that stage now I think where I am realizing that, like your co-workers, people only use you for things, when you take away that need they simply disappear.

You have given me food for thought for the future too, as I always wanted my own children, since I was 17, so going on 30 years now. 

I practically raised my 3 little sisters myself as my Mother (an alcoholic Narcassist using prescription medication that if used on alcohol causes schizophrenic behaiviour as I researched in my college and care working years, I believe she is probably sociopath too) was always either down the pub or entertaining men, or too drunk to do anything or beating me up basically, so through all that I managed to raise my sisters and I did something right there at least, because they all have their own perfectly good functioning familys.

I spent a lot of time with them all, but distance has grown to the point now where no one visits exept on occassion my Aspergers Nephew, who no one else can handle, but who I find very polite and pleasant, go figure lol.

Hi random,

I think about these sort of things too. There is a lot of history and mystery to unravel in my family and probably in yours too. I was lucky, my autistic father spent most of his time at work (worrying about keeping his job I expect) and left my non-autistic mother to bring us up.

My grandmother (not on the spectrum) had an awful time bringing up 4 kids who, in hindsight, were variously affected. She responded to the challenges of that by being very authoritarian and strict - she was catholic and she would have been supported in taking a strict line by the standards of their time and by the church that would have supported her in trying to keep the children in line. This upbringing was not appreciated by some of her children who, being well down the spectrum, did not comprehend the situation and rebelled and fought every inch of the way. The grandmother is still deeply resented for what she did but I don't know how a parent, who has no idea how to motivate an autistic child, would manage in those less enlightened times.

This autism thing makes you think doesn't it?

Abusive childhoods are quite common in people with diagnosed ASCs. Sometimes the autism is passed down through the genes and the lack of insight, or expertese in dealing with people, comes out as abuse when an undiagnosed autistic person becomes a parent. This happened in my own family in earlier generations and the effects can be terrible and lifelong.

I don't feel that there is much (or indeed anything) to be gained by blaming parents for what they were ignorant of though.

This way of looking at things is an attempt to find an explanation but it is not meant to be an excuse for intolerable behaviour. It is however, much harder to be cross and judgemental about something if you can see that the other person's behaviour resulted from an accident of genetics rather than from deliberate malice.

Hi Beltane,

There are a fair number of things I can relate very closely to your posts. I am 50 in a few months time, and am Isolated, have been for all my adult life. I also had an abusive childhood, I was diagnosed with Aspergers Last year. I have OCD too, but is not diagnosed yet.

Even some of the interests I share, I was heavily into 3d graphics in the 90s and tried to build a career from it. Electronic music too, although I just experiment, and mostly play around with the sounds. I wish I had devoted more of my life to playing music.

I don't have an interest with animals, but your posts have been one of the very few times, where I can empathise with someone else's passion with animals.

One key difference is that I have worked for most of my adult life, although I am struggling at the moment, and may have to end that. I am hoping I don't lose my job.

I guess it depends on the Job, but I don't put a huge value on it; I work in IT, and it tends to get looked down upon. Whenever people ask me what I do as a Job, I am always ashamed to mention it. I don't feel the working relationships I have are anything like a genuine friendship. They are talking to me and choosing to be social because they need my help to do something; As soon as there is any social situation, I can see people just excluding me. Some of the conversations in the office tend to be people just bitching about everyone else, purely to generate some entertainment for themselves. IT is more accepting of aspeis, because in general aspies have better ability for the wide ranging and deep analytical nature.

Anyway back to one of your original questions, how do you cope with Isolation. It is very tough, I had a hard time in my earlier adult life. In my 30s/40s I came to the realisation that not all relationships are good, relating that back to my childhood, and being on your own, can in many ways be better than being in an abusive, or just simply bad relationship which has broken down. I always feel bad for what my mother had to endure in her relationship with my father. My mother tended to get on well with people, but found out that many of those friendships were taking advantage of her kind and honset nature.

It just gives me a little peace thinking like that

Random

Pixie I understand that thing with people completely, as a child I people pleased in order to survive (I had a horrificly abusive childhood), and I grew up to be an empath, which people can never understand as they think Autistics have no emotions, in my experience, it is NT's who have little or no emotions, we have more emotion inside one of us than a 1000 of them, probably 10,000.

I am deeply spiritual and call myself a Pagan, but I have learned most of the great teachings, but favs are Buddhism, Shamanism, all aspects of Witchcraft, (suits my ritusalistc nature as I was OCD as a child, but my spectrum changed as I grew). I think the OCD was the result if the abuse, and as I worked through that over the years the real me emerges and continues to.

I had help online from a lovely American Empath once, she ran self help circles, but gave me lots of free advice as I was good at helping ther people in our then fb group out of dark places, it seems to be my gift, probably as I have survived those dark places too. What she told me is that high empaths get their gift by learning to watch and read people to the extent that it becomes totally intuitive as to what they are going to do at any given second, this is the childs only survival mechanism. Sadly, I still live like this, constantly in a state of fight or flight my entire life, probably what caused my CFS actually.

I pushed my physical self last few years though as my isolation left me overweight, so, as I have the strongest willpower of anyone I know, I put myself on a strict diet of juicing, then bought a boxing exercise machine, and unleashed 47 years of anger at the world on it, the result is, I have now lost 3 stone, and I have muscle definition and I am now at the stage I have just bought olympic rings to work on (hang em out my attic).

I have also got to the stage where I feel I have to dis-own most of my family.

This year I'm gonna try and find some part time work, but its really hard to find.

I have a gift with animals, they saved my life as a child (my sanity, and I would never let people touch me, but I lovrd petting animals, it made me feel safe to look after them) and often I would only talk to animals and not humans at all.

When I was a teenager I became an Elephant Keeper for a year, wanted to work with the big cats, but you had to be there years for that. I did however spend a lot of time with a Snow Leopard near us, used to eat my lunches near him, and one day, I put my hand through the enclosure and stroked the top of his head. His reaction? He rolled onto his back like a cat would when it wants you to rub its tummy and that shows complete trust in you, so I did just that, and my hand dissapperared into this beautiful mass of thick (2inch) fur. I then did similar with the huge Timberwolves (when they standup they are taller than people), but again, simply spent time with them and they loved me.

I did a lot of dangerous jobs, I had a death wish until the first person who tried to kill me, then I had more respect for my own life after that.

Sorry, Im waffling on lol.

Trouble is I can't drive (I would be dangerous!) and all the animal jobs are out in the sticks. I have done all sorts of jobs, all sorts. But not worked in the real world for 22 years now. And pretty much been totally isolated most of that time too.

Reached a crossroads and not sure which way to go.

Hi Beltane 

Don't worry about the lateness of your reply, which was very kind. I just wanted to wish you a belated happy birthday and say that I hope things change for the better for you in the coming year. 

I also used to live in a horrible neighbourhood. I had to leave my part time job as a special needs teaching assistant and get a full time job in an accounts office to earn enough to be able to move to a better area. It was hard work, but worth it.

Like you, I've always had a creative side. I enjoyed drawing and writing stories as a child and always had an "ear" for music - I taught myself to play rhythm guitar when I was 11 and my earliest ambition was to be a singer. As an adult I have written electronic music too.

Unfortunately there are many more talented and/or lucky people around who want to work in the music business and so I had to accept it would only ever be an enjoyable hobby. But doing what you enjoy has great value, whether you get paid for it or not. 

By trying different jobs, I found that I was good at accounts, which is something I never thought I would end up doing when I was at school - I wasn't even good at maths! But my analytical mind and attention to detail make me good at accounts work, particularly spreadsheets. My creative side is also useful as I often come up with new ideas and better ways of doing things. I've had to stop myself trying to please other people all the time though otherwise I start to feel that my identity is being subsumed by them, if that makes sense. If I'm asked to do a task which is outside of my job description and I wouldn't be comfortable doing - like being asked recently if I could help with debt chasing  - I now politely refuse and I also now politely turn down invitations to the work Christmas party / social events (people have now accepted it's not my "thing"). I find that the trick is to remind yourself not to care about what anyone else thinks, as it's self defeating, while being friendly and polite, and helpful when I can be to the people who are nice to me.

All the best 

Pixie 

Hi Pixie (I used to have a friend in my teens named Pixie),

Sorry for the very late reply, I am new to this, and my bday came and went and I have simply been in my "cave" closing off the world as I do often.

Thank you for the advice, I think it will help, very appreciated.

Hi Beltane 

I was going to reply earlier, but Coogy wrote such a good reply I wasn't sure I could add anything useful. However after reading your posts again, I came up with a couple of ideas. 

Being with an aspie partner since we were in our late teens has helped me, even though my family were not very nice to me and I no longer see them. I've also had friends who let me down, but I've been lucky to have met a friend a few years ago who also has strong aspie traits and understands me and who I can trust. 

So there are 3 things I would suggest:

1. Try to meet other aspies. NAS runs social groups,  but if there isn't one close enough or you prefer to talk to people on a one to one basis or online,  there is a befriending and mentoring service where they put you in touch with others who share your interests: Go to "schools and services / in the community / befriending and mentoring" for details 

2. Learn more about NT's to help you deal with them. These books have helped me: A field guide to earthlings -an aspie view of neuro-typical behaviour and The Guerilla Aspies Handbook by Paul Wady

3. Think about getting a pet if it's possible. Many of us relate well to animals and find them a comfort.

All the best and good luck 

Pixie 

Appreciated, taking the time to give me some feedback Coogy. Your story sounds very familiar too me in many ways. It does help. Oh, and I am always brutally honest, probably why a lot of people can't take me. I have met a few other aspies, I actually looked after some autistic people in my younger care working days and connected so incredibly with them, that is what began my own research into it all, as I just do not connect at all with NT's (only just learned that term but I like it). I get on spectacularly with other Aspies I have met briefly, and also with people with borderline personality disorder for some reason, but NT's all have a hidden agenda with me and I get ripped off, screwed over, attacked, even survived not one, but two murder attempts, both due to the greed of NT's. Women treat me like dirt, and that of course is what is longed for most, a real relationship and family of my own.

I get counselling when I need it, always have, and I have studied psychology amongst other things, and my last counsller told me to be my own therapist.

I was born a very sweet soul with not a bad thought in my head, but life has turned me into a mysanthrope sadly. Life has also given me a deeply rebelious spirit that is only now really coming into it's own.

I have many talents, my latest addition is game designing, I have made electronic music for decades, it got played on the radio a couple of years ago, then I became a DJ with another radio station (all done at home through computers) my show got so popular they put me in the prime time slot on Saturdays after only 3 months. I took over the running of their magazine and made it a hundred times better. All this done voluntary, no money involved, then my boss (not the show owner, I liked him) said the wrong thing to me one day, tried to twist something in a public forum to cover his own laziness and tried to use me as a scapegoat. I have had that happen to me by too many bosses, so I emailed him and told him simply that I cannot work alongside someone who has that opinion of me, then I quit the station and took my own music website down. This sort of thing happens all the time, like a cycle.

I made incredible music videos using 3D animation, all sorts, I write books, poetry, I'm an artist, and a passionate creator, as well as an astrologer, yet I cannot make ANY money at all, I try and try, and the Universe seems to reject it, and of course not being a people person is the stumbling block. So I feel trapped, live in a horrid and dangerous neighbourhood that I block out with headphones all the time, and thats my life currently.

I would like to play music live but I need a job to get some more equipment and no one will employ me since I turned 40, everyone just wants young cheap labour.

I constantly battle huge corporations and big companies through email alone (I absolutely refuse to deal with them any other way) I have a total fear of phones.

But even just through email I have won approx 50% of my battles, which is pretty good for the small guy against the giants I think. I'm in my element there, but it exhausts me, I have chronic fatigue syndrome too, for 16 years, but have been fighting it to get physically fit again.

This life is just strange, to quote Jim Morrison, "The strangest life I have ever known."

I have managed to actually save seven lives and counting though, so my hell is at least for some purpose to the World.

Hello Beltane and welcome,

   Firstly, can I just say how honest your post was. Isolation is indeed a crippling condition and not one that those who are not on the spectrum completely understand or appreciate in my view.

I'm sorry that you have had such a hard time with getting your assessment, It's unaccptable that people are left so long. Is their any way you can file a complaint, because that does not seem right to me?

Like you, I had a traumatic early life, but following a considerable amount of therapy and of course my late diagnosis (I'm middle aged lets just put it that way.) My hope is that I can make the balance of my life happier, safer and more productive.

I hope you also find likeminded individuals on this forum. Please be assured their are nice people out there, they do exist.

When I was my most isolated, following the sudden death of my former partner, I guess I was very vunerable. I knew I was different and didn't manage as others did, but had no clue why. Since finding out, it has made life a lot easier. Somehow now I'm also a little kinder to myself. I still have dark days, but undertanding the reasons behind why I struggle, somehow this makes a difference.

In retrospect I should have applied some strategies to my life before I got the diagnosis. It would have helped me in so many ways and wouldn't have left me feeling in limbo for so long.

As an Aspie I was poorly placed to be able to see my own difficulties, introspection was never my strong point, but their are organisations out their who can help. The NAS helpline would be a good starting point to find a centre or group near you and I'm pretty sure you don't need to be diagnosed to access some of the support their is. Finding others on the spectrum, who understood the challenges and daily struggle of life has also been a great support for me. Before I felt alone, now I can commune with my own tribe, safe in the knowledge that i'm not alone and I do have something to offer.

When I look back on my dark period I see that I pushed people away with my neediness and depression. I didn't mean to, but the difficulty with being very low is that I just wasn't good company. I learned after a while that my condition was self- perpetuating my isolation, yet what I yearned for most was company, but the company I found wasn't always the right company. I learned that when asked how I was feeling, people didn't actually really want to know. Gradually I developed a mask, A happy face that I put on infront of others to fit in. Of course this is extremely tiring and really took it out of me. Learning to accept myself for who I am was a whole other lesson and now I try to be myself as much as I can. Far less exhausting.

If you can find a local group to you, it might increase your chances of finding someone to connect with. It's sad that your family don't find time for you and it's probably that they just dont understand.

With regard to past hurts I've had to make my piece with them. They were eating me up inside, which was very toxic and all for something that was beyond my power to change! A ridiculous position to put myself in, but I did it for years!

I'm not sure if a therapist would be a good option for you, but I found it helpful. It took me a long while to find the right one and although you don't have a diagnosis yet it maybe worth talking to a therapist who is Autism aware.

You are clearly tallented as you mentioned you are a musician. Do you play at any venues?

Finding connections isn't easy. It's even tougher from behind a closed door. Pushing yourself out that door and making an effort to conect has to be the first step of that journey. It took me years of fear and a shed load of bravery before I found the courage.

I hope my ramblings are of some help and wish you well.

Coogy