Teenage daughter

Hi JT,

Just read this post, I've been busy with work and other distractions!

Autistic youth clubs are one of those things that sound like a really good idea. However, they can be really terrible place for someone with autism (although some people will cope well). Autistic people can be difficult to deal with and we can be even worse at dealing with other autistic people than we can with non autistic people. The depth of difficulty of social interaction can be multiplied if more autistic people are involved in a situation! Also, the noise and number of people in an enclosed space may lead to feelings of being overwhelmed. If there is loud music then this can again make the situation worse.

It can also lead to further disappointment if she finds that she cannot cope with the one place that really should be suitable for her.

PS I appreciate your appreciation! Autism is a very mysterious and difficult thing to grasp. I got diagnosed 2 years ago and still don't really understand it. Making attempts at helping in this forum helps me understand more about it. I also agree with the points that the Carly and Mags have said. You have to be pragmatic and deal with it with an open mind.

Hi Jennifer,

I suffer from terrible concentration too (part of asd so I am told) this is possibly the case for your daughter too. Should you have taken things more seriously? Don't blame yourself, guilt will only hold you back. You have not gone 'wrong', there is nothing 'wrong' with daughter. She think/feel/see/react differently she is not being difficult etc. I honestly think there are 2 different species of human!

"disappointment, shame or embarrasment" these are my feelings, asd driven. I naturally have plenty of these feelings but I find the world outside my home a hostile, scary, confusing, place. The people in it don't understand me and I truly don't understand them.

I know you daughter is still a child but thought this link might help, even if just a tiny bit.

Thanks Carly.  I've got an appointment in 2 weeks time.  I'm new to the work of help- agencies, so I don't know what to expect.  The idea is to try to help my daughter communicate with us, but perhaps also for her to understand why she's angry.  Things were actually getting better till yesterday.  For no discrernable reason my daughter got angry for be taking her to an autistic youth club night (they only happen once a month and it was her first time there.)  She went with a friend of hers who she rarely sees (because the friend, who is also autistic lives far away).  I tried to make it a really nice time for them both, and they were really happy.  At 11pm (which is later than she ever goes out) we left the place, and she said that she had not wanted to be there in the first place (she said that she had told me this, but it isn't true.)  And her friend had really liked being there (and wanted to go again.)  The friend told us this morning that my daughter couldn't explain to the friend why my daughter was angry.  The friend said that she couldn't understand it either.  Since then my daughter has remained in her hostile state- she's unapproachable and it will only lead to an escalation if I do.  It's obvious that she's unhappy but I don't have a clue what to do.  Doing nothing for the time being is the safest bet.  And like you said Carly S, one day at a time. Thanks for your reply (this has been going on, on and off for a few months now, but I hope that it is a phase that will pass too).

We've been through the same with my brother and we're still really struggling with it so I have a lot of sympothy for your situation. My brother used to be really close to my mum but then his behaviour got a lot worse and started hating my mum and he went through a particularly bad stage which lasted a few weeks. He got over it eventually. It sounds like you are doing the best that you can. I think you have to get used to the idea that you'll have to make comprimises with your child that you'd never think you'd make, which is difficult. You try and get her to school everyday and if that ends up being 4/5 days a week then thats okay, it was the same with my brother, he rarely did all 5 days and my school used to just say get him in if you can. Its difficult to keep boundaries while making allowences for autism, your daughter sounds like my brother in that its difficult to tell where the autism begins and ends and what you should let slide and what you should be strict on. You can only take it a day at a time and keep on working with the helpers at school. Hope you get some help soon.

Recombinantsocks, I find your posts immensely helpful.  I don't understand her and she doesn't understand whatever it is either.  Somehow I get strength from your words.

After I had clicked on the link, mags66 I saw a whole lot of interesting videos at the side. I think that they may be really useful.

Age issue: Well pointed out recombinantsocks. I assumed teenage daughter was an older teen. (No idea why!) Having said that I would have loved to have had somewhere like this to turn to - what I wouldn't like is the responsibility of giving advice to a young one on here. I would like to think that one of us would be able to direct her to somewhere though, even if it was to the nas helpline - to lead her to the best place. 

I hope Mum and Daughter can find a way through. This wont happen until teenager can be understood because until then she can't express where she needs help.  I believe that the love is absolutely there but asd gives such an enormous barrier as far as communication goes.

I actually truly can't bear to think of her suffering alone.

JenniferTree said:

Thank you all for your replies.

...

But I still don't understand her.

And you probably won't ever understand her completely but you won't ever stop trying to understand her and that is what counts? Autism is a really difficult thing to understand from the inside i.e. from her/our point of view - I am still struggling with working it out for myself and can appreciate how hard it must be for a teenager to deal with it.

She will crave love and understanding and she will not understand and accept criticism and demands that she does not understand. You are absolutely right to take the pressure off regarding achieving at school. Try and enable her with assistance and encouragement rather than setting targets and constraints.

I don't know that this forum is the best place for a teenager (there is an age limit in the rules in any case) - but she should be encouraged to talk about her problems.

Thank you for your good advice Mags66, I could never truly know how it feels to be autistic, and that is the advantage that autistic people have over me (despite it being a spectrum that even I must be on to a lesser or greater degree with different aspects of who I am.)  There's no question of me feeling that my daughter is a disappointment, shame or embarrasment, I've never felt any of those things, and no child should feel that their parents feel that about them.  It's a privelege to be a mum.  It's also really trickier than you would imagine to be a good mum.  With all the best intentions, and greatest efforts it's still easier than you think to go wrong and that's when it feels like a thankless task, when it's your own child that complains.  My daughter might have had a melatonine problem since she was very young, and it's had a very bad impact on her (concentration problems etc.)  Could it have been discovered earlier?  Should I have taken all sorts of things more seriously?  These are all questions that I won't be able to answer.

Why don't you suggest (to your daughter) that she register here? Maybe she will get some support and understanding from people who are likewise. There are not many avenues open for people like her, I am sure she would find total acceptance and maybe even get some advice from others who have struggled with the lack of information surrounding autism. I really do feel for her. Perhaps her poems would be appriciated too. I always write poems- it's the only way to get my feelings out. There has been some pretty dark stuff written. And trust me, the majority have been written when I have been suffering. Not just from the sensory issues; hostility; agrophobia; impending doom; depression but mostly from the "victim" badge a certain someone has always worn. Do you know how it feels when the one person who you should be able to count on, feels sorry for themselves; that they make you feel like you are a curse? Do you know how it feels when you need help to communicate, only to see your mum; 'centre of your universe', pulling a face, appologising for you  being so 'difficult' to the person who you are trying so desparately hard to get them to understand what you are trying to say? Do you know how it feels to be totally isolated and not be able to show your feelings, crave for someone to make you feel secure, hug you like they do your little brother, look at you like they look at the others but everytime they look at you, there is disappointment, embarrasment, shame? I don't know how your daughter feels...but 'someone' should. I truly hope she gets the help she deserves. This is not meant to be an attack on yourself by the way, my heart just goes out to her.

Thank you all for your replies.  Since I last wrote a lot has happened.  My daughter went to the house of a friend of hers and said that she didn't want to go home.  The friend is also on the spectrum.  The parents were trying to be nice but they said that they didn't know if my daughter would be safe at our home.  That alarmed me, so we went to their home to take our daughter home and the police were called.  The police heard her our daughter's story, and ours.  We didn't hear what our daughter had to say, but whatever it was, the police enabled us to take her home.  They only wanted to know if we had any help from any agencies.  (We shall be getting some sort of help from the 1st of March). Since she's been at home, her behaviour has been weird.  She's been conforming without being reminded.  She put her pajama's on and went to bed at a reasonable time.  She started doing her homework for school.  I gave her her phone back and she didn't start using it straight away.  In the last month I have hardly seen her do any homework.  And in the last month she's been on her phone almost constantly in her free time.  (I've only used taking the phone away when she's stepped over particular boundaries.  Getting her phone taken away is something she hates.)  The shift in her behaviour is really strange, especially as she's still not really happy, and we had given up asking her to do her homework.  My husband told me that my daughter had confided in him, last week,  that she was lonely.  That she wished that she had friends that lived closer,  that she could visit more often. That she had tried to tell us this before, but that we weren't really listening.  She sees how close her younger siblings are with each other, and she wishes she had something similar.  She's been wanting a dog (we live in an apartment, don't have experience with dogs, and don't want the hassle of having a dog).  Asparagus, you're right about the poetry.  I was wrong to misinterpret it and not believe her.  We have told her that she can visit her friends more often (that we'll pay the travel costs), and that they can visit us too.  And my husband and I agreed to let go of the idea of her achieving anything at school (to lessen pressure on her.)  That's why I completely understand what you're saying Aspymum (about the p.e. lessons etc. )  It's a lesson I've only just learnt.  I've been giving her those talks about how important it all is in the real world.  But the weird thing is that after a really defiant last month, I don't understand why she's changed to being studious without us even asking.  I tried to talk to her, but she didn't want me to and politely asked me to leave her room.  I left.  But I still don't understand her.

@Dodo, you can edit your own posts and remove or change the text of anything you have posted when you are logged in. Your own posts will have an edit link that you can use.

I can understand your stress, I am in a similar situation.  

I have a different take on this, maybe not the most popular one but I'm taking the long view...  The school have to make 'reasonable adjustments' and if at the moment my child is late into school or misses a day now and again, in the scheme of things, if that's what's necessary to cope, does it matter?  I know the huge stress my child is under and the worst thing the school says is 'you have to live in the real world, you have to fit in, etc.'.  That induces massive anxiety, I wish they wouldn't say it!   You see we all live in the real world but we can choose which bits of it we interact with.  Avoid the bits which cause stress...

Autistic people can be found concentrated in certain kinds of jobs, of course this is a generalisation, but there is truth in it, but they're in those jobs because that's where they feel comfortable.  So when the school is on my back about PE, and why won't my child do it?  I honestly think, care factor zero, it's pretty useless, it's loathed by my child and the school only care becaue of the charts and tables they have to submit for attendance.  I try and look at the big picture...  I try to make things as easy as I can because just going to school is a huge task...

And I know what you mean about it using up all your time.  I feel like my whole life is consumed by my children, it's exhausting, but they need me...  

Big hugs, you'll get through this, deep breath... xox

Only one point to add which not be liked i know.

For someone who is struggling very much so it is possible that they can write a poem in meter.  That could be their one outlet.  They could have a natural talent for rhythm.  It don't matter how dark they are feeling it, they can draw on that one thing. She mayn't even know the Meter fits perfectly. Just comes out with it. It possible to actually do that.  Have you seen any other poems to know how she works in this way?  But even then if this is her one focus. Use it in a positive way not to be against her but to get her on side so she knows she can trust you.  Find a poem you like and share it with her. Say nothing about her behaviour. Just simply share it with her.

I think you may need to build up some kind of trust thing with her to reach her and poetry can be used. But carefully or she may be put off. I know it hurts to think you try your best and you just get kicks back.  She really could be hurting in side and could feel so isolated and lonely if she is thinking no one believes her.  She can't tell you or anyone what happening as has no concept to be able to say so with.

Internet is very good but I think you need someone close by who you can trust too. Not to discpline the daughter for you. But where you can off load and may be look at things in another way. I can't say anything on parenting as not a parent. But know how it feels when people don't believe what I am saying.  I am ASD spectrum too.

I know you have a responsibility to see her attend school. It sounds like school is working with you to help work it out? There be bad bits.  But she no doubt is hurting right now and may be just need to find some way to reach out to her on common ground. 

I am emotionally intact but often completely unable to identify other peoples emotions when dealing face to face. A lot of my understanding of this situation came post-diagnosis from reading lots on this forum and reading books on the subject. It doesn't come naturally and it is sometimes better in theory than in practice.

You have choices and I think you have taken the point well. But you actually don't have the choice to do everything, that is not actually possible. You can only do so much and let some other things go. 

As you say, your husband has to choose to seek more insight. Your daughter too. You actually can't force them to do this but you can open doors and let them walk through them.

Has you husband done the aqtest? http://aspergerstest.net/aq-test/ This is an amazingly good indicator (it isn't a diagnosis though) about whether someone may be on the spectrum.

Thank you very much for your reply. I can tell from your reply that not only do you understand the situation, but that you are (despite your autism) quite emotionally intelligent. I wish I knew who I could talk to (without airing our dirty laundry in public).On the one hand I feel trapped, but on the other hand motherhood is a privelege.I devote a lot of time to the children. (I struggle with the household- things get done, but our home isn't one of those lovely tidy ones). It's interesting what you said about choice, because I have always thought (in a Marxist sort of way) to each according to their needs, by each according to their ability.I knew that I was facilitating his ability to have a normal life (we have been married more than 16 years) and I was happy to do it because having a happy family is a worthy thing (helping children on their way to independance, trying to allow them to achieve their full potential. But my husbands behaviour in parenting matters just makes things worse (especially now that we've got this thing happening with the eldest.) Thank you very much for replying. I do have choices, but I don't have a clue what to do yet (Which means that I'll do nothing, try to get rest whenever I can, and wait till things crystalize). It occurs to me that if you have achieved the level of insight that you have, perhaps it's also possible for my husband to achieve this too, but he has to choose to. 

Hi Jennifer,

I think your problems are probably bigger than anything I can help with on this forum. I think you need help because you are clearly struggling and at breaking point. I think you need to find someone to talk to that can help you make some choices about what happens next. If your daughter and husband are both autistic then you probably need to find someone outside to help you see what choices you have. They will really struggle with understanding and talking about the emotional turmoil that you are going through.

You are an adult and will always have some freedom to make choices between different paths into the future. You can choose whether or not to continue to fight your daughter. You can choose whether or not you put up with it any longer. You have a much greater choice in this than she or your husband do. They are far more obstinate and programmed to do the things they are doing. Your daughter is programmed to be a rebellious teenager. They are both programmed to have profound difficulty in detecting your emotions and being able to respond to them. 

The one thing that I am sure about is that your current turmoil can be tackled, analysed and then improved by changing the way that you and your family are dealing with the things you have to deal with.

I've been an autistic person growing up in a family (autistic father, NT mother) and I have also had children, of my own, one of whom left home for a while when we fell out and practically came to blows. I can see a lot of different points of view and I can see the difficulties you face but I can also see that better solutions can be found for moving forwards.

If there is one word of this that you should remember it is choice. You have many opportunities to choose one path or another. Some choices will be mistakes but you should recognise that the freedom to make choices is always there.

We live in a world where there are expectations and demands on us all;It would be foolish of me to let my daughter think that it will be okay to lie in bed all day and not go to school. This all happened because I wanted her to get out of bed and go to school;She's been missing one day of school per week for a month now, and I have had meetings at the school, with the g.p. and with socialworkers. As her mother, I am responsible for getting her to school, and trying to remind her to do homework;All she does, if she gets the chance, is listen to music all day long. I am the victim, because the consequences of her behaviour do mean that a) I have extra work (I could wait a year, and she still wouldn't tidy up the mess that she's caused.) and b) a lot of my time and energy is spent in these meetings. We were always very good at communicating before, so I thought that this was probably down to puberty. She had written a poem. It was rebellious in tone, but in perfect rhyme.  I told her that someone who was truly suffering wouldn't take the trouble to rhyme. It's like she's wallowing in some pit of teenage self-pity. It's so unfair: it makes no sense whatsoever. I am there for her: I'm a stay at home mum who does my best to keep things stress free for everyone (which isn't easy because my husband is probably an undiagnosed autistic person)  I've learnt to have a lot of patience, and I've learnt to not put pressure on her. My whole parenting style has been very different from the one I had. My daughter has/had a close bond with me, one that I didn't have with my late parents (who I loved dearly but they both worked and I didn't share an intimacy with them as a child, that I have with my own children.) I've confiscated my daughter's phone and computer and told her that she'll get them back when she's cleared the beads from the stairs and tidied her room.  I almost wish that I could escape. Emigrate and leave the whole family behind to fend for themselves. I'm really tired of always being the flexible one who's got to be understanding, knowing that there's always going to be a lack of reciprocity towards me.  I especially don't understand because when I was 10 my own mum died, and I know how truly hard life is when that happens.  What has changed for my daughter to make her so miserable and nasty towards the people who love her the most?

Your teenage daughter and you have clearly spectacularly failed to communicate with each other. She will have discovered that shis unable to get through to you and has become exasperated and has no other way of expressing herself except by resorting to damaging things. The barriers to communication that autism creates are profound and debilitating and ultimately exasperating for all concerned.

You show signs of suggesting that you are a victim and I am sorry that you feel like this but it is probably much worse for her as she will have even less insight than you about the situation she finds herself in.

You have no power to control but you have got the power to try and understand what she is going through. Do not impose on her but try and be extremely patient and clear and consistent and rational.