Are there any antidepressants that don't make you feel like ***? (sensitivity to side effects)

I Sperg said:

The truth of the matter is that all drugs can be abused, and all drugs have benefits when correctly used. 

It's simply criminal to use the law to criminalise the people who can benefit from the use of a drug.

I'm glad it's finally changing. 

I agree.

I used to smoke cannabis but gave up when I couldn't find a supplier (I didn't try very hard) and I got a chronic cough (gastric causes).

Also, my sister died of breast cancer and she was a heavy smoker.

I've never been sure if there's a link but it also put me off.

I remember wheeling her out in the hospice to have a smoke and there were cigarettes everywhere on the ground and it all seemed rather sad.

However, I loved smoking pot.

I had a friend when I was young who had a chronic spine condition called ankylosing spondylitis.

He had to get cannabis illegally to get relief from the pain.

It was very effective but turned him into a criminal.

You can't patent a plant like cannabis. Different strains suit different types of people. That's why the drug companies can't sew it up.

And if they try the usual price gouging, it's a weed, anyone can grow. it!

Best keep it illegal, despite the huge evidence being amassed and presented in it's favour that has finally forced a crack in the wall of ignorance and misinformation.

But, and this is the important thing here, remember "DIversity"?

Unlike some others in this thread I've tried to be very clear about "what suits me may not suit you" whilst presenting the things that have worked for me.. 

I feel quite passionate about "censorship" these days, having watched active censorship occur when a very effective treatment for covid emerged in India...

Cannabis is rarely "cut" with anything, and the illegal market is dominated by a culture of excellence, where the growers clearly take a pride in their product, and compete to produce the most, tasty, or strong, or sedative or psychedelic strains. as in all trades there are bad apples, and my exposure has been limited to evaluating the products and conduct of my personal supplier, but the quality and "knowing what you are getting" thing is really nothing like the media or uninformed bystanders would have you believe, has been my experience, even on the rare occasions I've bought from some I don't know. Rather than shooting each other over turf wars (Which probably does happen in places I'd avoid going, instinctively) the competition, is who can make the best, most perfectly manicured buds, that do exactly what the guy who is selling the says they do.

There's no proffesional pride and ego's involved like when you say to the doctor, "that stuff is crap". Most dealers will take it back and find you one that does work for you. And how many cannabis deaths I've been recorded? 

But before you all rush out and get yourselves a bong, there IS "cannabis psychosis" to beware of..

This can range from simply wishing you hadn't taken the stuff to, ( as I once witnessed a now very respectable and lauded man doing as a youth) hiding under a table throwing wellington boots at anyone who asked him "if he was feeling O.K." and chanting military phrases... He recovered after a couple of hours and vowed never to do it again!

The golden rule with cannabis and other psychedelics if you find the experience not to your taste, is "this is the effects of a drug, and I KNOW it will wear off. All I need to do in order to stay safe is, nothing at all". 

Which if you think about it, is pretty much where Jakey is at (or was) with his legally prescribed drugs. Never met a drug dealer who recommended someone take a different drug if they were having an adverse effect though. Only the legal ones do that.

I THINK I'm within the rules with this post.

I appreciate that the testimony I have given will be hard to accept for some, but I can assure the reader I have no malign intent, I am not stupid, I've spent a lot of time coming to the conclusions I have, and I am providing in some cases a counter point to serious misinformation that is being peddled as "authoritative" or simply what everyone knows.

The truth of the matter is that all drugs can be abused, and all drugs have benefits when correctly used. 

It's simply criminal to use the law to criminalise the people who can benefit from the use of a drug.

I'm glad it's finally changing. 

The BIG LOSERS when they legalise cannabis (and some other currently illegal drugs) will of course, be the companies who host your doctors drug conferences in those nice hotels. they'll lose bigtime...

You are the best arbiter of what a drug does to you, and you need to choose your suppliers whether legal or proscribed, MUCH more carefully than most of you do. 

Please consider all options, and try things other than outsourcing your thinking. that approach, whatever you choose, will get you the win in my experience every time.

Do not discard expert opinion, that would be foolish, but don't outright ignore all dissenting presentation of other people's experiences either.   

It's all about keeping your balance, innit?

Congratulations on getting off venlafaxine, it is known to be one of the hardest if not the hardest to come off. I am down to 75mg from 150mg. It has been a long road. The withdrawal effects can be brutal. 

I found being on medication helpful though I realize it doesn't work for everyone. Maybe go on a different medication and see how it goes. Am glad your feeling better now

MrSolo said:

I personally find that SSRIs even at half the lowest dose give me symptoms similar to serotonin syndrome. I recently started taking a medication that blocks the effects of serotonin (kind of the opposite to an SSRI) to treat IBS and am feeling good on that. The only side effect is that I'm sleeping longer and deeper at night, waking after 8-10 hours instead of 6-8. My mood is better and calmer than usual, so I'm very skeptical about the idea that more serotonin is what autistic depressed people need.

That's interesting. If you don't mind sharing, what is the medication?

It ties in with the link I posted yesterday, the scientific research showing that 1 in 4 autistic people actually have high levels of serotonin in their blood. I'm curious if there has been any further research into what happens if those people are prescribed SSRIs. I do share your scepticism in that respect.

Maybe SSRI induced activation syndrome is actually a milder case of serotonin syndrome. The symptoms are remarkably similar. It would certainly explain why the side effects got progressively worse every day that I was on them, rather than gradually subsiding as my GP kept telling me they would.

Me? (Can't tell who you're replying to)

I feel better. The thoughts will have faded away now because I'm finally in a relationship. 

There's always a transition phase when you start them but personally I've found that once I've got past that they help enough with what I need them for that it's worth it.

I guess it also depends on what you want them to do for you, I'm on propranolol which is a beta blocker and that helps with some of the physical side effects of my anxiety like the heart palpitations, whereas the mirtazapine and venlafaxine that I'm on deal more with the mood side of things.

I was on lorazepam for a while which is effectively a sort of sedative, and is very effective but has a more pronounced "zombie" effect for me at least.

They all have their side effects unfortunately and all increase suicidal thoughts initially. Everyone’s side effects can vary so even if someone suggests one that worked for them, you still won’t know how it will affect you until you’ve tried it personally. The one that saved my life was venlafaxine. I’m off it now four years later but it’s one of the hardest to come off. It had its side effects that settled after a while but it’s the reason I’m still here so I’m thankful. That’s how you’ve got to think of it if you’re in a really bad place, what’s worse feeling nauseous, vomiting, low sex drive or full blown uncontrolled depression

That's fabulous. I'm glad you have had such a positive experience even with your GP. My GP isn't very good unfortunately but there's a temporary one I've been talking to and she is much better seems to really understand my autism and wants to offer support and encouragement. I'm thinking about trying anxiety meds again but with her guidance but I'm anxious to try in case they make me ill.

They really have, and most of the other people I know who are on them, or have been on them in the past, have also had positive experiences.

I also have to say my GP has been brilliant in doing check backs and medication reviews ever since we moved and changed surgeries. The one we were with before weren't great, but this new one has been really supportive. A bit less so when I asked for an autism referral, but the GP I spoke to was overridden by a more senior GP and they did it in the end.

Thanks for sharing Becky. It's nice to hear a positive experience with medication for once. I know a lot of people don't get on with anti anxiety and antidepressants so it's positive to see they helped you.

There's a lot of people on here offering their own negative personal experiences with antidepressants so I wanted to balance that out with my own positive experience.

To put it simply, I wouldn't be here today if the antidepressants I've been prescribed didn't work. I've been suicidal, I've made plans and started to act on them. It's taken me a while to get to what works best for me, and now with possibly more understanding of why I struggle with things (suspected autism as well as depression and anxiety) I'm hopeful that I'll be in a position soon to be able to start coming off them.

My husband is also on them, and without them he'd be harming himself again, or worse.

We're both examples of the effectiveness of antidepressants, and because of them our son still has two parents, who for the most part are able to go about their normal (for them) lives.

I'm also another vote for not messing with illegal drugs, there may well be some benefits to them and if there are, no doubt a drug company will be doing trials to come up with something they can market and sell, but until that happens you can't guarantee the quality of the drugs, their source or what they might have been cut with.

How are you now? I know the feeling medication can have a real negative effect in a lot of ways so if they're affecting you then best to avoid. Your doctor might be able to prescribe you a different one or a lower dose. I think rather than trying to cure us they should be looking at ways to properly help us... Hopefully it will change in the end.

I get depression sometimes really don't want to be here but good days will come it's just remembering that. Don't give up on yourself Jakey it will get better.

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Interesting. The author of Uncomfortable Labels (a book about being autistic) says the same thing about E, that it turns off the sensory stuff related to autism for a while, although she doesn't recommend regular use either.

I personally find that SSRIs even at half the lowest dose give me symptoms similar to serotonin syndrome. I recently started taking a medication that blocks the effects of serotonin (kind of the opposite to an SSRI) to treat IBS and am feeling good on that. The only side effect is that I'm sleeping longer and deeper at night, waking after 8-10 hours instead of 6-8. My mood is better and calmer than usual, so I'm very skeptical about the idea that more serotonin is what autistic depressed people need.

From the Patient Information Sheet for Citalopram >

" Thoughts of suicide and worsening of your depression or anxiety disorder
If you are depressed and/or have anxiety disorders you can sometimes have thoughts of harming or killing yourself. These may be increased when first starting antidepressants, since these medicines all take time to work, usually about two weeks but sometimes longer.
You may be more likely to think like this:
• If you have previously had thoughts about killing or harming yourself.
• If you are a young adult. Information from clinical trials has shown an increased risk of suicidal behaviour in adults aged less than 25 years with psychiatric conditions who were treated with an antidepressant.
If you have thoughts of harming or killing yourself at any time, contact your doctor or go to a hospital straight away.
You may find it helpful to tell a relative or close friend that you are depressed or have an anxiety disorder, and ask them to read this leaflet. You might ask them to tell you if they think your depression or anxiety is getting worse, or if they are worried about changes in your behaviour."

I know, how many of us actually read all the PIS, even if we are autistic?

No doubt that happens in some cases but certainly not in my case. I was put on them for severe anxiety. I was not depressed and not experiencing suicidal thoughts in any way prior to taking them. As I stated in my post above, within a couple of months of starting Citalopram I was experiencing constant suicidal thoughts. Thankfully all those suicidal thoughts went away within days of stopping them.

I was not warned that they could cause suicidal ideation in non depressed patients. In my view they are potentially very dangerous indeed and shouldn't be prescribed so freely by GPs. Sure patients on inpatient wards can be monitored closely in that environment. GPs prescribe them after a 5 minute chat, often never having seen the patient before and possibly never seeing them again.

Jakey, I agree. Only everyone here is anonymous. We are not allowed to use our real names, so we cannot respond in real time.

There are probably dozens of people on here who have had training ranging from Mental Health First Aid to fully qualified counsellors and psychotherapists ... but the rules of this forum prevent them from sharing their details, or you sharing yours.All anyone here can do is sympathise/empathise and suggest someone in the "real world" who you can talk to, and hope that works.

As we do not know who or where you are, all we can do is offer a generic national service like the Samaritans or NHS111.  I hope you also have details of your local mental health team and their out of hours services, and that you find a support system that works for you. It is not about "looking good" it about trying to be helpful and supportive.

I was at a lecture where a psychiatrist was talking about the risks of changing antidepressants. What he said made sense ... basically, if someone is very depressed they don't have the motivation to even kill themselves. Starting or changing medication results in the person still having suicidal ideation, but being less depressed. As a result, they can act on the negative thoughts before the full antidepressant effect of the medication takes effect. Certainly on in-patient wards patients who were changing their medication were supposed to be monitored more closely at such times.

SSRIs work by reducing the reuptake of serotonin at the synapse between neurons. Serotonin is involved in passing electrical "messages"  across the junctions (synapses) in the chain of nerve cells. In non-technical terms, serotonin is like the acid in a car battery -  it is needed for the cell to "spark". The body then reabsorbs the excess and the cell returns to what you might call the "off" position, waiting for a new signal to come along. SSRIs leave more serotonin in the synapse. It takes time for the neurons to get used to the new level of serotonin. It is a bit more technical than that, but that is a rough analogy.

it was the first line of a post I made up thread (Which I wonder if you've actually been able to see, as this site makes it easy to not see some posts, if you use it how I do.

To "warm to someone" is to begin to like some aspect about them. In this case of course, i admire your ability to be a bit skeptical about MHS and the NHS in general.Plus I note the fact that you seem to have tried a lot of things already, and are looking to find something that works.

Simply making an effort to work a problem, rather than "complaining or blaming" is more than halfway to winning the battle...