Are there any antidepressants that don't make you feel like ***? (sensitivity to side effects)

Please fucking help. I've been on Citalopram 10mg and that made me really sick and even more suicidal. I've been prescribed Fluoxetine recently which has scary side effects still, but is it more likely to make me worse because of its sensitivity? The sexual side effects are scariest, then nausea and vomiting is second. 

  • Periactin (cyproheptadine) is an antihistamine. Purely anecdotal, I took prescribed antihistamines (mainly promethazine HCl) for hay fever when I was a kid. Summer was the peak allergy season, it was also the end-of-year exam season. This was the 1960s UK, so I was not being treated for ADHD, although I had been previously diagnosed as "hyperactive". I noted some improvement in my ability to focus when I was taking antihistamines. As I say, purely anecdotal and I would not recommend this to anyone else without proper clinical supervision. There is an interesting paper on the links between allergies and ADHD [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10455974/]

  • I believe the data referred to cases where cannabis had been mentioned specifically on a death certificate. Alcohol is a lot more dangerous, and had it been recently discovered, ethyl alcohol would probably be a controlled drug! The fact that it has been in use for thousands of years means it has become socially acceptable.

    "Cannabis psychosis" is interesting. Many years ago I did a very basic psychopharmacology course at a university summer school, and the evidence was that there was a correlation, which of course is not evidence of causation. As in most things, I suspect that as we find out more about genetics we will find that some people have genetic factors which affect various receptors, and the neurotransmitters are unbalanced in some way. It may be that in time, as genetic sequencing becomes more available, we will see research into "personalised" medication, including psychopharmaceuticals.

    Having ADHD, I slept about three hours a night as a kid. I was taking promethazine for my asthma, in doses that should have at least made me drowsy - it didn't. You may know that it was the sedative side-effect of the antihistamine promethazine that led to the formulation of chlorpromazine for use as a tranquiliser. Nor do I get a "buzz" from caffeine - I used to consume huge amounts of coffee - twenty cups a day, each with two heaped teaspoonfuls of instant coffee. That was probably 50% over the maximum daily dose listed in BNF. It helped me sleep!  (In the USA I tried Jolt Cola. I had two cans and two double espressos, which is getting on for 400mg of caffeine stat. I went back to my hotel room and fell asleep.) As a trainer, I ask the audience " So why do we give hyperactive kids speed? Ritalin is a stimulant."  It is one of the few paediatric drugs where body mass does not affect the dose. You can have a tiny five-year-old on 20mg and a large teenager who only needs 5mg.[Discussed in Hallowell and Ratey,1994  " Driven to Distraction"]

    There was some research published recently regarding coffee. Apparently, subjects were given either coffee with a known caffeine content, or the same amount of pure caffeine in hot water. [https://scitechdaily.com/brewing-clarity-the-unique-neurological-effects-of-coffee-over-plain-caffeine/]

    This was the point I was making about herbal cannabis vs synthetic THC or CBD. "The few studies done with CBD in serotonergic systems suggest that it inhibits 5-HT re-uptake, and overall reduces 5-HT neurotransmission (2,16). There is also some experimental evidence to support CBD’s activity in other neurotransmitter systems such as dopamine,GABA, and the endogenous opioid system." [Russo et al 2015 Agonistic Properties of Cannabidiol at 5-HT1a Receptors.]  Of course, CBD is available in soft drinks available over the counter in any supermarket.  Maybe what we need is a proper clinical trial of some of the individual components of herbal cannabis.

  • "Cannabis related" deaths. What does that mean exactly? 

    And 20 out of how many million regular users? How does that compare to the recommended social use drug alcohol in terms of safety? Or for that matter the recent vaccinations? Or even the drugs that have taken away my friends power of speech having been clearly over prescribed by a whole TEAM of professionals?

    If a thing happens to you, and you are a regular cannabis user, then of course it is "involved" or "related". 

    The oft touted link between cannabis and schizophrenia or psychosis is definitely real but is cannabis the cause or a self-selected treatment? 

    And why, after decades of active suppression, is my side of the argument clearly winning the "war" with legalisation (if only by the back door as with cancard) being rolled out everywhere if the stuff is so dangerous or toxic? 

    I'm personally sorry to find myself so in opposition with you tonight Ian, in some of your previous posts you've revealed yourself as quite well motivated and well balanced in your thinking, but in this area and some others I do feel your message requires a bit of argument or as I see it, counterpoint.

    From my own perspective although I've found the stuff overall helpful I've also found it very, "challenging" on occasion, and unlike most cannabis advocates was carful to conceal my own use from my child though her most impressionable years and am glad she does not feel the need to use it regularly. 

    But in my own case, although I sometimes resent having to pay for it, or go and buy more when I run out, and I sure resent being somehow considered morally deficient for using it regularly, I have proven over several decades of careful and occasionally not so careful testing, that it confers overall a steadying effect on my psyche which allows me to function better and more safely in society than when I do not take the stuff.

    When I've tried more conventional alternative treatments they've been disastrous, and NOT beneficial to my functioning. 

    "Yer pays yer money, yer takes yer choice".  If you are allowed (or allow yourself) to have a choice, of course... 

  • Statistics on https://www.statista.com/topics/6200/medical-cannabis-in-the-uk/#topicOverview are that there are approximately 20 deaths p.a.. However, I would imagine that there are many more cases where cannabis use has contributed to deaths by accident and suicide, or where cannabis has exacerbated underlying psychosis. There are about 80 deaths caused by driving under the influence of drugs, and cannabis was the most common cause of impairment after alcohol.

    " Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Cannabis is a known risk factor for schizophrenia, although the exact neurobiological process through which the effects on psychosis occur is not well understood."  (Shivastrava, Johnson et al, 2014Indian J Psychiatry. 2014 Jan-Mar; 56(1): 8–16.doi: 10.4103/0019-5545.124708

    Whilst there is evidence that cannabis can be effective in depression (it appears to act on both serotonin and dopamine) the trouble is that herbal cannabis contains dozens of psychoactive substances in different proportions. I would be wary of messing about with the balance of one's neurotransmitters.

    It goes without saying that possession of a controlled drug without a prescription is illegal.

  • Those patient information sheets list every  "side effect" that is ever reported using a Yellow Card (or the online system that replaces them). They can be useful for warning about drug interactions, foods to avoid (grapefruit and grapefruit juice have a lot of interactions) etc., but they can be quite tedious to read.

  • That's true. It's sometimes used to counteract SSRI overdoses.

  • Periactin 2mg before bed

  • It's now six minutes past eight and I've just finished screaming "NO, NO, NO, THIS IS WHY I DON'T COOK!!" 

    -as my second attempt at heating up a slice of pie ends in disaster... OH well, it was short lived, but I was genuinely happy there for a short while...

  • FWIW, It's quarter to seven in the morning, I've been up about an hour and a half, fed the cats had a tea and smoked a small number, and I've processed all the overnight information emails etc, that I want without interruption, and my cats have joined me. 

    One is curled up next to me warming my leg and purring softly and the other one content on the floor next to me, as I type this.

    Eventually I'll get up, make another tea, and breakfast on Morello Cherry pie from Waitrose, (which a little bird told me is actually made by Wrights Pies, and which I was last able to buy (as a "Wrights cherry pie" in 2014)*. 

    I've been just as effing miserable (for vast tracts of time) as any of you, have (obviously) tried most drugs in an effort to escape, but right now, just the warm feeling on my leg from Blackie's head (he is of course A big Ginger cat, everyone tells me off for naming him that, but I have my reasons, mainly being the pythonesque humour) and I know THIS is what I needed all those years... 

    .... And now a decent section of pie is in the oven, cat's have had a second helping of food, Blackie's gone out for his morning constitutional I've got my tea and I'm just deciding what I'll attempt today. Looks like a nice day, so I think I'l cut mine and my neighbours lawns, followed by trying to progress this motorcycle refurbishment a bit.

    *This cherry pie is "something special", and for any misguided souls who ever doubt my veracity, and quality of advice, the proof is in the eating... :c)

  • Since my first run in with the medication suicidal thoughts fairy I tend to read them every time I'm prescribed something new. If you don't know about the side effects or possible interactions with other drugs/food/drink etc., then how are you supposed to know what you should and shouldn't do or be worried about?

  • I know not everyone responds well to them but I've found going on Sertraline life changing - but in a good way! Before I went on antidepressants/anti anxiety meds I couldn't go out, I couldn't attend medical appointments and I was frightened all the time and felt lower than I've ever felt before. 

    All that's changed now. I still get anxious and I still get bad days where the low train comes in to station but it's a lot less and a lot more bearable for me than it used to be.

    I'm sorry you've been suffering this way mate. I hope this passes for you soon or you can get some different meds that will work better for you.

  • But you can separate and identify the active compounds that give the beneficial reaction. That's exactly what all drugs are and how they're developed. Note, no-one is eating mouldy bread for the penicillin, we're taking the antibiotics derived from it through extensive experiments and testing.

    The medication my husband takes for his heart condition is derived from digitalis but again, he's not eating foxgloves.

    We're thankfully at a point with our science where we can identify the helpful bits and refine them in such a way that any negative side effects can be reduced and the active compounds can be administered more effectively.

    They're doing the same with psilocybin, there's multiple trials going on looking into its effectiveness in treating depression, and so far results are looking promising.

    And just to clarify, I have tried both weed and mushrooms in my past, so I'm not talking from an inexperienced point here. Neither benefited me in the long run and frankly the thought of doing either whilst I'm in a major depressive or anxious episode is incredibly off-putting.

    As you've said, you are talking about your own experience, so I've talked about mine.

    My family would not be here without the advances in medical science.

    My husband has a congenital heart defect that as little as 50/60 years ago would have been an infant death sentence but they can now correct that in utero, and he has a pacemaker that originally was suitcase sized and pulled around by the person but is now implanted in his chest and can send updates to his cardiologist wirelessly.

    His brother has type 1 diabetes, synthetic insulin keeps him alive and he has a handy little pump that monitors his levels and automatically regulates how much insulin is given.

    My son was born at 32 weeks, his survival chances without the medical care and support of the Special Care unit at the hospital would have been 50/50 at best.

    There's a solid reason I advocate for medical solutions to health problems, the science has to be thoroughly assessed, tested and is constantly evolving.

  • You can't patent a plant like cannabis. Different strains suit different types of people. That's why the drug companies can't sew it up.

    And if they try the usual price gouging, it's a weed, anyone can grow. it!

    Best keep it illegal, despite the huge evidence being amassed and presented in it's favour that has finally forced a crack in the wall of ignorance and misinformation.

    But, and this is the important thing here, remember "DIversity"?

    Unlike some others in this thread I've tried to be very clear about "what suits me may not suit you" whilst presenting the things that have worked for me.

    I feel quite passionate about "censorship" these days, having watched active censorship occur when a very effective treatment for covid emerged in India...

    Cannabis is rarely "cut" with anything, and the illegal market is dominated by a culture of excellence, where the growers clearly take a pride in their product, and compete to produce the most, tasty, or strong, or sedative or psychedelic strains. as in all trades there are bad apples, and my exposure has been limited to evaluating the products and conduct of my personal supplier, but the quality and "knowing what you are getting" thing is really nothing like the media or uninformed bystanders would have you believe, has been my experience, even on the rare occasions I've bought from some I don't know. Rather than shooting each other over turf wars (Which probably does happen in places I'd avoid going, instinctively) the competition, is who can make the best, most perfectly manicured buds, that do exactly what the guy who is selling the says they do.

    There's no proffesional pride and ego's involved like when you say to the doctor, "that stuff is crap". Most dealers will take it back and find you one that does work for you. And how many cannabis deaths I've been recorded? 

    But before you all rush out and get yourselves a bong, there IS "cannabis psychosis" to beware of..

    This can range from simply wishing you hadn't taken the stuff to, ( as I once witnessed a now very respectable and lauded man doing as a youth) hiding under a table throwing wellington boots at anyone who asked him "if he was feeling O.K." and chanting military phrases... He recovered after a couple of hours and vowed never to do it again!

    The golden rule with cannabis and other psychedelics if you find the experience not to your taste, is "this is the effects of a drug, and I KNOW it will wear off. All I need to do in order to stay safe is, nothing at all". 

    Which if you think about it, is pretty much where Jakey is at (or was) with his legally prescribed drugs. Never met a drug dealer who recommended someone take a different drug if they were having an adverse effect though. Only the legal ones do that.

    I THINK I'm within the rules with this post.

    I appreciate that the testimony I have given will be hard to accept for some, but I can assure the reader I have no malign intent, I am not stupid, I've spent a lot of time coming to the conclusions I have, and I am providing in some cases a counter point to serious misinformation that is being peddled as "authoritative" or simply what everyone knows.

    The truth of the matter is that all drugs can be abused, and all drugs have benefits when correctly used. 

    It's simply criminal to use the law to criminalise the people who can benefit from the use of a drug.

    I'm glad it's finally changing. 

    The BIG LOSERS when they legalise cannabis (and some other currently illegal drugs) will of course, be the companies who host your doctors drug conferences in those nice hotels. they'll lose bigtime...

    You are the best arbiter of what a drug does to you, and you need to choose your suppliers whether legal or proscribed, MUCH more carefully than most of you do. 

    Please consider all options, and try things other than outsourcing your thinking. that approach, whatever you choose, will get you the win in my experience every time.

    Do not discard expert opinion, that would be foolish, but don't outright ignore all dissenting presentation of other people's experiences either.   

    It's all about keeping your balance, innit?

  • I found being on medication helpful though I realize it doesn't work for everyone. Maybe go on a different medication and see how it goes. Am glad your feeling better now

  • I personally find that SSRIs even at half the lowest dose give me symptoms similar to serotonin syndrome. I recently started taking a medication that blocks the effects of serotonin (kind of the opposite to an SSRI) to treat IBS and am feeling good on that. The only side effect is that I'm sleeping longer and deeper at night, waking after 8-10 hours instead of 6-8. My mood is better and calmer than usual, so I'm very skeptical about the idea that more serotonin is what autistic depressed people need.

    That's interesting. If you don't mind sharing, what is the medication?

    It ties in with the link I posted yesterday, the scientific research showing that 1 in 4 autistic people actually have high levels of serotonin in their blood. I'm curious if there has been any further research into what happens if those people are prescribed SSRIs. I do share your scepticism in that respect.

    Maybe SSRI induced activation syndrome is actually a milder case of serotonin syndrome. The symptoms are remarkably similar. It would certainly explain why the side effects got progressively worse every day that I was on them, rather than gradually subsiding as my GP kept telling me they would.

  • Me? (Can't tell who you're replying to)

    I feel better. The thoughts will have faded away now because I'm finally in a relationship. 

  • There's always a transition phase when you start them but personally I've found that once I've got past that they help enough with what I need them for that it's worth it.

    I guess it also depends on what you want them to do for you, I'm on propranolol which is a beta blocker and that helps with some of the physical side effects of my anxiety like the heart palpitations, whereas the mirtazapine and venlafaxine that I'm on deal more with the mood side of things.

    I was on lorazepam for a while which is effectively a sort of sedative, and is very effective but has a more pronounced "zombie" effect for me at least.

  • That's fabulous. I'm glad you have had such a positive experience even with your GP. My GP isn't very good unfortunately but there's a temporary one I've been talking to and she is much better seems to really understand my autism and wants to offer support and encouragement. I'm thinking about trying anxiety meds again but with her guidance but I'm anxious to try in case they make me ill.

  • They really have, and most of the other people I know who are on them, or have been on them in the past, have also had positive experiences.

    I also have to say my GP has been brilliant in doing check backs and medication reviews ever since we moved and changed surgeries. The one we were with before weren't great, but this new one has been really supportive. A bit less so when I asked for an autism referral, but the GP I spoke to was overridden by a more senior GP and they did it in the end.

1 2 3 4 5 »