Bullying at work

This is bringing out the subtlety of the kind of workplace bullying that makes it difficult for people on the spectrum to stay in a job, whether they are constructively dismissed (their lives made difficult until they quit voluntarily) or an argument made to dismiss them.

Therefore this thread is very pertinent to adults on the spectrum and the employment issue. We need more threads like this.

I endured years of this subtle bullying in the workplace. I could do my job well and had valuable expertise and ability to offer. But even though diagnosed quite late in life I was well aware there were problems, and therefore was conscious I was at risk of being "got at" and on the defensive as a result. These were mostly foibles to do with social interaction in the workplace. I just seemed inevitably to run into someone in a senior posiion who didn't like me, and some made life very difficult.

What Shoekitten describes is what I think happens to many on the spectrum. It isn't explicit discimination. Its not done in a situation where others can see what is going on. It is always where it is one-to-one and no witnesses, and the "bad" manager plays on the fears and insecurities of the employee.

You might hope for justice. But people like Shoekitten's supervisor survive well in most organisations, despite probably losing their employers money through under-utilisation of "manpower" resources, and absenteeism due to stress. They are clever enough to do their bullying discretely, and appear to be "OK" to onlookers.

These sort of people do enough damage generally. But the impact on people on the spoectrum is whether they can get employment, and I feel we should press for better monitoring in the workplace.

Disability sometimes helps produce greater care in workplace environments and this is one area that would help many others.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here with advice and thoughts. My biggest problem is that the bully in question is super nice to me in front of others,she is well liked ( it seems) and has been there for 14 years with lots of influence.

I on the other hand an fairly new (15 months). She is my direct supervisor and everything comes to my word against hers.The remarks she makes are not on record and she manages to manipulate what I say. ie if she confronts me on a situation I am too flustered to make a reply she will write that I 'chose not to answer '. I get so anxious during these confrontational meetings that my brain freezes.

She has stated to me privately that I am not well liked by colleagues and they often compplain about my manner, but admits I am good at my job in general, particularly my report writing and PC skills. It's making me very paranoid and withdrawn now. I feel that when anyone speaks to me they immediately run to her office to complain about me. This is making me in turn even more withdrawn and anxious about everything I say and do.

Hello shoekitten

I am very sorry to hear about the difficulties you are experiencing and the anxiety you are suffering.

Here is a NAS website article about bullying in the workplace:

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/employment/bullying-in-the-workplace.aspx

There is some useful information there and some advice about where you can find support.

You can also contact the Autism Helpline to ask for more information and advice:

http://www.autism.org.uk/Our-services/Advice-and-information-services/Autism-Helpline.aspx

Here also are some more links to general information about bullying at work which you may want to look through.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/DiscriminationAtWork/DG_10026670

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=797

Good luck.

Sandra - mod

Also I am perplexed that the NAS moderators are not saying anything.

Usually when someone in a thread is clearly distressed, such as I perceive in your situation, they intervene at least to offer support and advice. Both in this and an earlier thread they have not been involved.

You can ask for someone to be present in any such meeting. Your employers cannot refuse that - they might argue, but they'd have to prove there wasn't anything improper going on.

You could also insist that your supervisor's meeting was in the presence of her boss.

As long as you stick to facts and don't make accusations, and just appear to be doing your job as best you can. 

Things appear to have escalated since the occupational health interview that your supervisor insisted on. That suggests to me that your supervisor has been reprimanded.

Also I reiterate, I recall you saying in another thread that the work you did had something to do with disability. If you are in such an organisation they have particular need to ensure internal processes are "squeaky clean".

I can't have a witness for a monthly supervision meeting. it's a 1-1 session. I can't prove anything. It seems my colleagues think she is great,they all have things in common to talk about such as family and TV soaps, which excludes me. They have worked together for years and I've only been there 15 months. It's my word against hers.

When I come out of these meetings my mind is so overloaded any notes I make are completely unintelligible. Once I went to the toilet to cry because I was so upset. She followed me in and asked if there was anything she could do to help me cope better with my workload,implying I couldn't do my job properly.

I always complete all my work, I plan ahead and achieve all the goals she sets me. By evening I'm so overloaded mentally all I can do is sit quietly and try to de-stress .I think this is why insomnia has come back with a vengence.

That's serious unprofessionalism now. She is playing on your fears.

Have you a reliable witness, because I think that is in the region of harrassment and could be a police matter? She definately can't do that. A few of the other things are hard to unravel but that is harrassment.

Keep a record.

Remember if this person had anything genuine against you she could make a formal complaint to management. So instead she is trying to provoke you into doing something that incriminates you.

Did you say somewhere back in one thread that this was a disability related organisation?

The difficulty is proving she made those assertions. But nevertheless keep a record. She is relying on the fact you cannot prove she said that to you. If challenged she'll make out you misunderstood. 

You have a legal right to representation. You can ask a colleague (if you can trust anyone in that dreadful place) a union rep or a lawyer to be present every time you meet your supervisor. You should insist on having support present when meeting her.

Thanks again for all your advice and feedback. Have been lying low, keeping my head down( and in the sand). My recent supervision with my supervisor went badly as usual. She says other staff have complained about me saying inappropriate things and my manner of speaking but wouldn't tell me who or what. She reports they are sick of me.

I asked why she can't tell me, apparently it's confidential.

Cue more feelings of dispair.

Well I'm sure your employer has broken a few accepted rules of good conduct if your supervisor referred you to Occupational Health because of something you said to her in confidence.

People may of course be very flattering about her because they are "afraid to stick their heads above the parapet" (at least that's a metaphor that makes some sense - but I always feel I'm on an old railway bridge for some reason, quite a nice setting but totally pointless).

It may be that your supervisor reacts harshly to anyone saying anything but nice things about her, given she is being very nasty to you (and unprofessional).

You do need to go to Citizen's Advice, or a solicitor, and get the right advice.  And keep recording what happened.

I'm astonished at the gross unprofessionalism, although I have to say this sort of bad behaviour can and does occur. And unfortunately many employers are unclear about what they can and cannot do.

Can the moderators chip in with some advice though. I feel a bit helpless to know what to say. But this is an area where accurate advice is really needed.

We are after all discussing AS, for which the vast majority do not secure long term employment. If things like this happen, even to people only tentatively diagnosed or considering diagnosis, it points to the kind of issues that need to be better understood.

And isn't this the sort of thing health professionals need to learn about to better understand the pressures people on the spectrum endure.

Hope things sort out for you.

Thanks for all the advice and sharing of thoughts. Unfortunately the bully is percieved by other colleagues as lovely. She is super nice to me in public but goes for the jugular in private. And as she is my supervisor I have to have 1-1 meetings with her.

I asked another senior staff if she could be my supervisor but she says all the supervisors are allocated due to time and availablity and why would I want to change as I have a great supervisor? How the hell could I answer that?

I had the Occupational Health meeting as I'm undiagnosed I was able to question why I was there. The referral the bully wrote actually says I declared I had a 'condition',when in fact I said to her in what I assumed was a private chat that I had been told by my partner I had many Apsergers traits and that I may pursue a diagnosis.

She has now called me a liar (in private) and now I feel awful, dread every day as she constantly picks up any tiny error and makes pointed comments about 'some people causing a bad atmosphere'. I really want to run away!

Employers tend to be in denial about bullying. It is useful to check though whether there is a strong union presence because they tend to go for polarisation - specifically linking bullying to aggressive management, which tends to focus management on a perception of being criticised which hides other kinds of bullying.

Equality (including disability equality) in the work place is often also elusive. There may be token anti-harassment policies that don't amount to anything. A lot of work day equivalents are lost in UK companies because of a deep seated reluctance to deal with bullying.  This adds to the problem for people on the spectrum.  But unions are often little better than employers in this regard.

It is interesting that Citizens Advice are addressing this. But it does say a lot about bullying in the workplace if you have to go to Citizens Advice for resolution.

You should also be able to get help from the police, as they are obliged to act on perceived bullying or harrassment. But in practice they seem reluctant to cross company managers and intervene in workplaces.

Is there a campaign issue for NAS to increase awareness of bullying in the workplace with particular regard to people with AS. As an undividual I've tried several times to raise this with Department of Employment, but maybe NAS should address this.

Im in a similar situation, I cant get into work at the moment I'm for the first time ever standing up against the bullies (well I'm trying too)! I went to Citazens advice and spoke to a very nice lady who wrote a letter to my employers about the way I am being treated. Its not the sort of thing I would normally do but I have a child and bills to pay so unfortunatly I cant just walk away which I would really prefer to do. The lady I spoke to said my employers have broken many rules one of which is confidentiallity which they seem to have done with you too. Rather than struggling on think about going for help. I to have to go to meetings and at the moment I cant see past getting into the same room as them let alone talk, but the lady from citazens advice said she will support me through it and I like her so we will see....

Hi there, I have been diagnosed with Asperger's and I am currently in counselling for workplace bullying. I was fortunate in that the bully was removed from the workplace as a result of a number of complaints from different people then I came along and put it in writing so I guess I was "the straw that broke the camel's back". So this was a good outcome but I haven't always been so blessed- I was bullied growing up and at other times in my working career so this brought up stuff for me, hence the counselling. I am still on medication from a bad bullying episode many years ago- I recovered in some ways and function very well on most levels, however chemically I never recovered so I have to really watch my stress levels and I have a lot of strategies in place. So even though I have an excellent relationship with my colleagues, a good counsellor and ASD psychologist, an understanding doctor and good friends, I will probably always be on meds from that bullying episode. I was put on PRN for the latest one. I don't feel any comfort in knowing that others at work were bullied too by the same guy- I feel as disconnected as ever but apparently that is often the case with people who have Asperger's (and even some who do not)... Anyway so I am glad I stuck it out at my job and by the way I am in the same occupation as you. Don't give up! And document, document, document. 

Thanks for the advice and sharing your personal experience. I feel better knowing that it's not my paranoia if it happens to other people. I will take on board all the advice here and start making notes of dates, times and what is being said. Unfortunately I can't record voices.

The worst thing about the whole situation is that I absolutely love my job. I work with profoundly disabled adults which is so rewarding . Since this has begun I spend my nights worrying about going to work in addition to constantly looking over my shoulder all day. I feel like a have a big lead ball made from worry in my stomach and can't sleep, I already have insomnia so I'm tired all the time.

I thought to add some notes on personal experience (conscious that to some correspondents I'm borderline because I did hold down a career!).

I was vulnerable because I can't deputise well and don't gauge people well. I tend to tune out too much, and miss some key element of a task, quite inexplicably, or there are aspects of a task I'm not at all good at that I ought to be "normally". Also while I can hold my own for a while, in noisy situations or where I get tired, my coherence goes and I become socially clumsy, and perceived as drunk or on something.

Having said that most of what was picked up in my experiences of workplace bullying by line managers was incredibly trivial. I don't talk like a person with my background - I manage one dialogue mode, and that means in some contexts I sound "thick" or not acting up to the level of the people I'm with. I'm too loud sometimes and pitch changes suddenly, also I'm too proximal - in people's faces - when I shouldn't.

The need to keep a record is that the objections of bully type bosses is often so incredibly trivial, even if hurtful, that to use a phrase "it couldn't stand up in court".

But what you have to remember is that if they sense this trivia hurts you, and if they sense you have something to hide, like anxiety about whether you have AS, and how people will view it, that they play on it. You've got to remind yourself that everything they go on about is petty.

Also office bullies are often vulnerable themselves - this might sound unreal or twee....but really, they are often more vulnerable than you are. They may perceive you abilities as a threat - that you might eventually get their job. A lot of workplace management bullies have reached their promotion limit. Their bosses don't see them going any higher. They may have reached a grade they are less likely to be sacked from, but all senior management do is move them round, often unaware of how many workdays are lost owing to letting idiots loose on the workforce. Some of them are quite crooked and maybe fleecing your employer and use bullying to smokescreen any underlings spotting about what's going on. Don't gossip about this though, these sorts last forever because higher management may be very bad at spotting what they are really up to.

And remind yourself what you are good at, and what strengths you have to offset any niggles.

This is very familiar country for me - I've had decades of this. You get runs of it, then you survive for a little respite then it starts up again. And of course you are caught up in the general debate about bullying in the work place, this happens to many people without AS, but it is infinitely worse for people on the spectrum, both because it is easier to find issues, and because of the personal anxiety caused, as you've already described. 

I survived many such attacks simply because I kept detailed records, and I kept hanging in, because trying to find a new job is so much harder. The thing is, the person doing this, if they intend to push you out, has to make a case to management. The one blessing is that management systems are wise to personal objections and hearsay. Your boss has to provide concrete evidence not waffle, and waffle is easy to challenge. A lot of trivial might be, could be, sounds like, hints at evidence will just get your boss a bad reputation higher up the organisation (unless he she is the actual boss)

What you mustn't do is lose your cool, or gossip to colleagues or provide any more concrete issues. And keep notes. You are being bullied. You have legal rights. Get everything down on paper including anything that gets back to you from colleague's gossiping.

I've found Malcom Johnson 2005 "Managing with Asperger Syndrome" Jessica Kingsley Publisdhers useful even though heavy going with personal detail, because it explores the very things you are discussing.

If you have a union talk to them. Also hasn't NAS any advice on this? This is so important, especially given the statistics about the number of people on the spectrum not in work. So when things like vthis happen, evenn if a diagnosis is unconfirmed, surely it becomes useful insight.

Thanks, I feel as though she will now try to use AS to make me seem paranoid and anxious rather than the underlying cause which is her.  Today I had trouble remembering a list of 5 things she wanted me to do. I asked her to repeat the last item and she said  very loudly " do you need me to write it all down?" in the most patronising tone EVER.

I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't remember a list of 5 complicated requests...

I just feel so undermined, anxious and really don't want to be there anymore. In typical AS fashion I don't like change either so my options seem to be.

1 Stay there and never have a proper sleep again, and feel depressed and anxious everyday.

2. Look for another job, in a recession. Uncertainty, more anxiety and depression.

I think you should keep in mind that this woman behaved  unprofessionally by repeating something told to her in confidence.    If you actually had an AS diagnosis and omitted to tell your employers that would be an entirely different matter - but you haven't. 

Make this point firmly to your Manager and Occupational Health and Human Resources and try to avoid getting upset and emotional at the meeting, but there's no harm in letting them see that you feel angry and let down by what she did.