Healthy outlook > Mortality

It is something that I am at peace with, Im 54 and see that I have about 25 years left, so I will make the most of them. In the past 4 years I have seen both parents die in similar circumstances in hospital. I know two things, first I don't want to die in hospital, I want to die feeling I am in the world, even just sitting on a bence in the fresh air. Second I do not want to go into a care home, I will end it all before then. The last 4 years have been hell and after that  I would see it as a release, no more anxiety, no more fighting to have a normal life. 

Yes I agree.  I think its fear of the unknown really dialed up to 11 isn't it.

I suppose I struggle with the concept of change in general.  I'd like really, for all the things to stop changing.  I'd like my parents to stop aging, my kids to stay as young and innocent and untroubled as they are.  And for my wife, and friends, and her family to stay well as they are, and not age.

I find anything which reminds me of changing and aging effects that sense of permanence which my mind seems to constantly strive for.  One of my absolute pet hates are those clickbait stories about famous film stars from the 80's / 90's etc "see how much Harrison Ford has aged!" etc - makes me feel very anxious.

Yes I agree.  I think its fear of the unknown really dialed up to 11 isn't it.

I suppose I struggle with the concept of change in general.  I'd like really, for all the things to stop changing.  I'd like my parents to stop aging, my kids to stay as young and innocent and untroubled as they are.  And for my wife, and friends, and her family to stay well as they are, and not age.

I find anything which reminds me of changing and aging effects that sense of permanence which my mind seems to constantly strive for.  One of my absolute pet hates are those clickbait stories about famous film stars from the 80's / 90's etc "see how much Harrison Ford has aged!" etc - makes me feel very anxious.

Sounds like we're in a very similar place.  I have two young girls, and my eldest autistic and with whom I do have a special bond and understanding, I worry for her especially and sometimes almost feel like I want to push her away to protect her.

I have an odd relationship with my parents, without wanting to sound heartless I'm not sure what I feel about that side of things - I find them hard to be around, they really affect my mood.  But then I feel guilty for not feeling a more "natural" feeling towards them here.  The idea upsets me I suppose, but I'd struggle to articulate why beyond the idea of them "not being here" upsetting me.

Thanks!

Interesting.  Now I've had kids (and my daughter herself is autistic) I feel like my goal is an age where she / our kids / my wife don't need me any more.  Hopefully I get to see them settle down and be happy.  The idea of anything happening before that time is definitely something I worry about.

I do suffer from mild depression yes, and anxiety.  Having treatment for both but I find it a frustrating process and that my therapist perhaps isn't the most effective, but then I become self critical / analytical and assume its me being "impossible" to help!

Yes I know what you mean, its a horrible thing to see the way some people go.

Sorry to hear about your sister, that must have been so tough for you and your family.

I know what you mean about parents also, I had a difficult relationship with them (my mum certainly, as she had an alcohol dependency).  I was always very fearful of anything relating to their health.

As I've had my own family and am a bit older now, I found I worry more about my wife / kids of course.  It makes me feel guilty at times that I neglect to think about my parents enough... I find spending time with them and seeing how old they are quite difficult I have to say.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

Here's an interesting book that might float your boat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_of_Souls

I found all Micheal Newton's book ringing true for me.

One would have to include the other: the thing and the no - thing.

They could not exist without each other!

Indeed, there must be existence for there to be nonexistence and visa versa.

It really is turtles all the way down.  (wiki that to blow your mind).

to add to this.. I later, in the late 80s experienced the "Gateway" program from the Monroe Institute that deepened my experiences and led me to many more interesting experiences.

When I was 17 I read "The Divine Romance". In it Paramahansa Yogananda talks about going out of his body and being somewhere else and, what we call today, bi locating. I was living as a runaway in an attic with a bunch of draft dodgers (Vietnam war) at a Unitarian priests house.

I read there was a chant to clear the way for Perspicacity. I sat and chanted it . After awhile I started to feel the word and the action of the saying it become one and becoming something more: I observed it as apart from my self,  an observer.

Then I found I was across the room looking back at myself as I sat chanting. It was for a few moments I saw myself there. but it gave me the gift of knowing, beyond doubt, that the body was not the end of the conscious mind, it was a product of the conscious mind. 

After that I was not afraid of dying. To clarify. I don't welcome it but I am not bothered that it will, eventually happen.

It also cured a great deal of FOMO as it dawned on me that I could come back over and over as often as I like to a new baby body to gravitate towards whatever I felt drawn to, without worrying there would not be enough time. I realized life, in the form of sentience,  was eternal.

Just to add to that, I wonder if because we need predictability and routine that the uncertainty of the D word is too much for us to understand??

Just a thought 

I too worry about there being nothing once it happens. I worry that my boys will feel sad also. I worry that my youngest who is autistic won’t have his rock anymore. I’m not so bothered about the D word but it’s the uncertainty of not knowing if my children will deal with it in an ok way. 
Im terrified of when the day comes and takes my parents away also, I just don’t know if I would be able to cope with that. 

The D word is on my mind a lot. I lost my sister at a young age and it was horrible to see. She suffered and you could see it and ever since then I've thought about it a lot. The idea of my own D word doesn't bother me so much, I'll be at peace them so that's something that actually brings me a comfort. My parents though, the idea of losing them terrifies me and caused my mental health problems to start a few years ago. I struggle to process it.

I used to obsess over it. Not being dead, but the process of dying. I've watched family members die slowly of illnesses and it's literally torture. So I bought a lethal dose of a medication online and put it aside in case I develop anything terminal. I almost never worry about it now.

I remember going through a phase in my twenties when I was really worried I was going to die before 30 for some reason. It wasn’t death itself that worried me, it was dying before my time. As it happens I am 34 now. 

Do you suffer from depression? In my experience, these thoughts can go hand in hand with it.

Same. There are times I can’t wait to be dead.

Thanks for your answer, interesting to read your perspective on it.

I love the necromancy point, such a cool and unusual "fear" if you don't mind me saying!

There are two elements I suppose - one is more practical, leaving behind family and friends never to see them again, and being parted from them.  This feels incredibly painful to consider, and since having kids, I find myself fixating a little on getting the kids to a point where they don't need me any more before anything happens to myself or my wife.

The second element, is more existential I suppose.  I don't have faith as such, rather my fear is one that when it's over there is simply "no longer existing" and that this is just... eternal.  If your consciousness truly dies, just lights out, never to exist again, I find that of itself terrifying - if I truly try to imagine it, an eternity of nothing, no thought, no memory's, no dreams - in fact, not even the consciousness of the lack of consciousness - simply nothing because you don't exist.

Then this will last until the end of time - you never come back.  I find that so so scary :(

I've always wondered if its the part of my excessively logical brain trying to map out the "problem" and find a solution etc, anticipate what happens after my "fear" so I can plan for it - but of course it is in essence unresolvable.  I'm curious as to whether this view is a common one amongst autistic people.

Selfishly, I have two daughters - I consider the above "fear" a burden I have carried with me since maybe late childhood, and I'd feel great reassurance to know that its not common to all autistic people and that my daughters may at least enjoy this life without this burden.

I also hope I might develop a more healthy outlook for my own happiness sake!