Published on 12, July, 2020
Yesterday my 10 year old son had his first violent meltdown which has completely shocked me. Although he is prone to meltdowns and will bang doors, stamp on the floor and scream at the top of his voice he is never violent. Yesterday after a meltdown I went to speak to him after when I thought he'd calmed down, he obviously hadn't calmed down enough because he launched at me and put his hands around my throat in total rage. His hands were gripped as hard as they could be. It was only for a few seconds and then he let go realising what he'd done and apologised over and over. I wasn't too sure how to handle it, you don't expect your loving little boy to ever hate you so much he'd try and strangle you.
When he'd calmed down I told him that he was banned from all his games consoles indefinitely until I felt he had earned the right to have them back and I told him that I forgave him this time but that I'd never forgive him if he did it again.
I'm worried that he could do it again if I'm not strict enough with him but I'm also worried that if I'm too strict he'll never forgive himself and may become depressed.
Has anyone else been in a similar situation.
Another question has been on my mind since. While I know the original poster was asking about outbursts in a ten year old child, latterly this thread has been about a 22 year old.
We're still learning about transition. For years there was this notion that autism was sorted at school, and there wasn't any issue after that. As numbers of those diagnosed as children hit 18 and 21, more and more recognition has been given to the process of coming out of teens if you have autism.
For some reason 22 has popped up in a few posts lately, in contexts that this is adult life - people set in their ways for all time.
Yet if you look at the evidence autism teens probably last to 25 for some. Certainly things started turning for me fairly dramatically from 21, but I experience quite strange lurches - what I sensed as delayed puberty, the last actually as late as 30.
There still seems to be this idea that people with autism are supported in school - and then adulthood starts more or less straight away, bar a bit of transitional provision.
Do we really know enough yet to assert that the behaviour patterns of a 22 year old on the spectrum are set for life. Or could that 22 year old be completely different at 25?
And is this approach to autism - well that seems to be what he/she is like....shelf them - in an institution or a hostel, denying them further chance to progress and come around to a more productive life path..... a humane strategy?
Are we condemning young people with autism too soon, when more years leeway after school age might be necessary?
The thing is, where is your son in all this?
In the posts above he seems to be this problem/failure/dead-end. Also you talk at one point about you feeling you might have HFAS, but you overcame your difficulties, you have insight into your mind - he doesn't have any of these things.
For one thing it is no use comparing AS experiences. As a teacher working with students with autism from time to time, despite latterly having a diagnosis, I would not and could not make a simple comparison - look at me I managed. Yeah mate I was just profoundly lucky. Nothing out of my own experience could feasibly have reassured anyone I worked with.
Some people really do get a bad mix of autism symptoms and consequences. That is reality.
But a blame culture really doesn't work. I should know as I didn't have a diagnosis until later life. But I grew up with this view it was all my fault I couldn't do things properly and that was reinforced over and over by others. OK I'm mild end, I've had it easy, I got round things a lot.
It just doesn't read across for everybody.
I found particularly harsh the generalisation that people with autism "do not basically understand 'strict' responses like a line in the sand which you do not cross". Does anyone? Autistic or non-autistic? Or are we in the military here?
Really? Is that empathy or compassion showing? Or are you right about the possibility you really do have HFASD. And you cannot conceive of him having any life unless he pulls out of it like you did? It really doesn't work that way.
He may be as you describe - impossible, manipulative, plain bad. But was that all down to autism?
Listen your gut feeling is soooo wrang. I am 55 years old have have been there every step of the way for my son. Through endless meetings with teachers, head teachers, social workers, policemen, family members, his friends, endless conversations with him, attended seminars, writing letters, emails, filling in social care forms so please don't make assumptions about my attitude that I find very offensive. Also I don't call taking myself and my wife to a safe place 'stomping out'.
Reading this the first thing that comes to mind (and I know I'm repeating myself here) but where in the Triad of Impairments is there any guidance to resolving such issues? The Triad hasn't got a clue!
I don't think anyone knows any answers. I've been looking at a book that analyses these conflicts, but sits on the fence and doesn't venture answers - John Clements & Ewa Zarkowska (2000) "Behavioural Concerns and Autistic Spectrum Disorders" (Jessica Kingsley Publishers).
They do analyse situations and responses. But the lack of one kind of answer is frustrating. What they are suggesting though is you need to find ways of defusing the situation, and for that you need to understand the mind and mental processes of someone on the spectrum.
My worry with walking away and leaving the meltdown to burn out, wrecking the house in the process, is that it reinforces negativity. If you've got autism you feel mortally ashamed of outbursts, and very guilty about harm done. That doesn't necessarily change extreme reactions. If your only answer is to stomp out the house and leave him to it, well something tells me you've created most of an inevitable outcome.
My gut feeling is you gave up on him a long way back. Granted there are manipulative and very difficult people around with AS. Your way out isn't showing others light at the end of the tunnel.
Admitted it is very difficult to use the ignore tactic especially if the person remains in your hearing or sight because as you say they will go to extreme lengths to regain your attention. When my son was living at home, in the end I resorted to just immediately walking out of the house with my wife and just walk and walk. At least we didn't have to witness what was happening but it was all there when we came back - the destruction of his possessions first, then the house - windows, doors, walls etc. smashed.
To the original poster: apologies for wandering off your story into ours but I feel its really important to start planning strategies now while you still have some measure of control as a parent. We made the mistake of thinking that if we gave enough love, support, attention, talking over problems and material things he would be appreciative and mature like any other child into an adult despite his disability. Not so. In fact I think we made big mistakes by carrying on doing some of these things when we should have simply been a lot lot firmer and not so forgiving just because he used to say sorry occasionally. I now realise he just doesn't have the feelings that back up the sorry. When you are battered and bruised emotionally and physically, suddenly hearing that word sorry is like a ray of hope. But my son has come to recognise and ruthlessy exploit that effect. I feel by our own behaviour we have unwittingly reinforced his extemely manipulative behaviour that he has now. He is not academic at all but the power of reasoning that goes into his manipulation is phenominal. Frightening really, its like dealing with a ruthless dictator. As I sit here now typing this I can hear my wife's distessed voice pleading with him on the phone to be sensible - he lives in a hostel now. I have already spoken to a policeman tonight at his place. He reckons he has been burgled but he probably pawned something and forgot - he is constantly calling them to his place on the slightest whim. I think it makes him feel in control.
I'm so sorry for you. I know only too well what you are going through. I'm seriously considering parting from my husband of 20 years because I just can't take anymore.
Ignoring my husbands violent outbursts only leads him to become more and more violent just to get a reaction from me. But I have limits too. Whilst I understand that he may be simply expressing overload/ distress I am only human and there are limits to my tolerance.
I can only speak from the experience with my son. I tried the talking approach for years all the way up until now. It never achieved anything. As the psychiatrists keep telling me aspergers is a learning disability. He could never learn from discussions with me or anyone, the normally innate mental faculty of emotional learning is absent in him. As for understanding him I myself identify with many of his thought processes as I had a very troubled time in my youth and these days I would probably have been diagnosed HFAS. But I have overcome my difficulties because I am lucky to have insight into my own mental state. He does not. He has a very superficial understanding. I could go on needless to say because no one can help him his life and our lives are now a living hell. My strategy of ignoring his more extreme behaviours are the last resort.
There is a manipulative personality type that might do this, but I wish people would look at the underlying causes of meltdowns. For many they are an extreme response to an extreme environment. You might not recognise that environment, but it is there for many.
Tony Attwood's The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome has a section headed "a malicious subgroup" p335 - the little dictator. But that would seem to be more calculating than just physical attack during meltdown.
Two things seem to drive meltdowns - spiralling anxiety and sensory overload. The former involves negative reinforcement and obsessive exploration of any and every outcome to sutuations they cannot understand properly, so their mind is working overtime and there is little left to handle day to day living.
Whereas you might have one bad day, when everything goes wrong, and have a 'last-straw' moment, and a burst of anger, many on the autistic spectrum are close to that threshold pretty well all the time, and meltdowns are an explosive response to extremes.
It might be possible to ease the pressure of these situations by helping him to talk through issues and find answers, or encouraging him to write things down (so they are on paper rather than going round in his head) and then draw spider diagrams or whatever other device for working things out on paper. Some things, because of lack of social referencing, aren't as easily resolved as for non-autistics, who can just talk things over with friends. You have to process it internally, and an over-propensity for this type of analysis leads to to much negative thinking.
The sensory environment is often hard for non-autistics to understand. Some people are experiencing so much pain from their environment that it leads to meltdowns. There may be ways of easing that environmental stress.
If you feel you are being attacked, attacking others can seem to be the way of showing what it is like.
What I am particularly concerned about here is this idea of ignoring it so they don't think the anger can get them anywhere. But is this manipulative anger for certain? Is he just a spoilt child using anger and physical attack to get what he wants? Or as I've explained above reactions to things you do not comprehend? If the latter, just ignoring it isn't solving anything.
Perhaps it might just be worthwhile trying to find out what he is going through.
Hi Reah
I completely recognise your shock at this episode. My son is 22 now and his first physical actions towards family during meltdowns occurred much later at about 17. We too witnessed an escalation of tempers all through childhood gradually leading to physicality. I have thought about this issue of escalation a lot. My thoughts are: AS children do not basically understand 'strict' response like a line in the sand which must not be crossed. They do not appear to be fearful of a parents escalating emotional reaction like non AS children would. They seem to cotton on very early that their increasing emotions will be countered by a parent's escalating response - but only up to point! They see that a parent has a limit to their own actions otherwise it would lead to the parent becoming physical which of course is forbidden. Though I don't think that they actually think 'my parent won't physically punish me' - they just see it's not happening in response to their physical actions. The child does not have the maturity to know an emotional limit and kind of goes one better each time ultimately leading to physicality on their part towards others. Once they see this pattern starting to get results it's very very very difficult to break the habit as I know with my son. I think the best thing is to disengage from the meltdown and ignore the emotion. Be very strict with withdrawal of priviledges and treats. Discussion of the events from my experience with my son has just been wasted effort and tends to have you going round in circles. Good luck.
community.autism.org.uk/.../saturday-night-melt-down-hi
Hi Reah - I was in the same boat a week ago, and got some great advice. My son is a similar age to yours, and regularly has violent meltdowns. I think that, with regards to punishment, you need to set behaviour boundaries but remember that often this violence is not easily controllable for people having a meltdown...it's a balancing act. Follow the link above for the thread I put up, it may be useful for you too - what I learnt was that prevention is better than cure with meltdowns! Keep posting.x