Are there any antidepressants that don't make you feel like ***? (sensitivity to side effects)

There's a lot of people on here offering their own negative personal experiences with antidepressants so I wanted to balance that out with my own positive experience.

To put it simply, I wouldn't be here today if the antidepressants I've been prescribed didn't work. I've been suicidal, I've made plans and started to act on them. It's taken me a while to get to what works best for me, and now with possibly more understanding of why I struggle with things (suspected autism as well as depression and anxiety) I'm hopeful that I'll be in a position soon to be able to start coming off them.

My husband is also on them, and without them he'd be harming himself again, or worse.

We're both examples of the effectiveness of antidepressants, and because of them our son still has two parents, who for the most part are able to go about their normal (for them) lives.

I'm also another vote for not messing with illegal drugs, there may well be some benefits to them and if there are, no doubt a drug company will be doing trials to come up with something they can market and sell, but until that happens you can't guarantee the quality of the drugs, their source or what they might have been cut with.

You can't patent a plant like cannabis. Different strains suit different types of people. That's why the drug companies can't sew it up.

And if they try the usual price gouging, it's a weed, anyone can grow. it!

Best keep it illegal, despite the huge evidence being amassed and presented in it's favour that has finally forced a crack in the wall of ignorance and misinformation.

But, and this is the important thing here, remember "DIversity"?

Unlike some others in this thread I've tried to be very clear about "what suits me may not suit you" whilst presenting the things that have worked for me.. 

I feel quite passionate about "censorship" these days, having watched active censorship occur when a very effective treatment for covid emerged in India...

Cannabis is rarely "cut" with anything, and the illegal market is dominated by a culture of excellence, where the growers clearly take a pride in their product, and compete to produce the most, tasty, or strong, or sedative or psychedelic strains. as in all trades there are bad apples, and my exposure has been limited to evaluating the products and conduct of my personal supplier, but the quality and "knowing what you are getting" thing is really nothing like the media or uninformed bystanders would have you believe, has been my experience, even on the rare occasions I've bought from some I don't know. Rather than shooting each other over turf wars (Which probably does happen in places I'd avoid going, instinctively) the competition, is who can make the best, most perfectly manicured buds, that do exactly what the guy who is selling the says they do.

There's no proffesional pride and ego's involved like when you say to the doctor, "that stuff is crap". Most dealers will take it back and find you one that does work for you. And how many cannabis deaths I've been recorded? 

But before you all rush out and get yourselves a bong, there IS "cannabis psychosis" to beware of..

This can range from simply wishing you hadn't taken the stuff to, ( as I once witnessed a now very respectable and lauded man doing as a youth) hiding under a table throwing wellington boots at anyone who asked him "if he was feeling O.K." and chanting military phrases... He recovered after a couple of hours and vowed never to do it again!

The golden rule with cannabis and other psychedelics if you find the experience not to your taste, is "this is the effects of a drug, and I KNOW it will wear off. All I need to do in order to stay safe is, nothing at all". 

Which if you think about it, is pretty much where Jakey is at (or was) with his legally prescribed drugs. Never met a drug dealer who recommended someone take a different drug if they were having an adverse effect though. Only the legal ones do that.

I THINK I'm within the rules with this post.

I appreciate that the testimony I have given will be hard to accept for some, but I can assure the reader I have no malign intent, I am not stupid, I've spent a lot of time coming to the conclusions I have, and I am providing in some cases a counter point to serious misinformation that is being peddled as "authoritative" or simply what everyone knows.

The truth of the matter is that all drugs can be abused, and all drugs have benefits when correctly used. 

It's simply criminal to use the law to criminalise the people who can benefit from the use of a drug.

I'm glad it's finally changing. 

The BIG LOSERS when they legalise cannabis (and some other currently illegal drugs) will of course, be the companies who host your doctors drug conferences in those nice hotels. they'll lose bigtime...

You are the best arbiter of what a drug does to you, and you need to choose your suppliers whether legal or proscribed, MUCH more carefully than most of you do. 

Please consider all options, and try things other than outsourcing your thinking. that approach, whatever you choose, will get you the win in my experience every time.

Do not discard expert opinion, that would be foolish, but don't outright ignore all dissenting presentation of other people's experiences either.   

It's all about keeping your balance, innit?

Statistics on https://www.statista.com/topics/6200/medical-cannabis-in-the-uk/#topicOverview are that there are approximately 20 deaths p.a.. However, I would imagine that there are many more cases where cannabis use has contributed to deaths by accident and suicide, or where cannabis has exacerbated underlying psychosis. There are about 80 deaths caused by driving under the influence of drugs, and cannabis was the most common cause of impairment after alcohol.

" Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Cannabis is a known risk factor for schizophrenia, although the exact neurobiological process through which the effects on psychosis occur is not well understood."  (Shivastrava, Johnson et al, 2014Indian J Psychiatry. 2014 Jan-Mar; 56(1): 8–16.doi: 10.4103/0019-5545.124708 ) 

Whilst there is evidence that cannabis can be effective in depression (it appears to act on both serotonin and dopamine) the trouble is that herbal cannabis contains dozens of psychoactive substances in different proportions. I would be wary of messing about with the balance of one's neurotransmitters.

It goes without saying that possession of a controlled drug without a prescription is illegal.

I believe the data referred to cases where cannabis had been mentioned specifically on a death certificate. Alcohol is a lot more dangerous, and had it been recently discovered, ethyl alcohol would probably be a controlled drug! The fact that it has been in use for thousands of years means it has become socially acceptable.

"Cannabis psychosis" is interesting. Many years ago I did a very basic psychopharmacology course at a university summer school, and the evidence was that there was a correlation, which of course is not evidence of causation. As in most things, I suspect that as we find out more about genetics we will find that some people have genetic factors which affect various receptors, and the neurotransmitters are unbalanced in some way. It may be that in time, as genetic sequencing becomes more available, we will see research into "personalised" medication, including psychopharmaceuticals.

Having ADHD, I slept about three hours a night as a kid. I was taking promethazine for my asthma, in doses that should have at least made me drowsy - it didn't. You may know that it was the sedative side-effect of the antihistamine promethazine that led to the formulation of chlorpromazine for use as a tranquiliser. Nor do I get a "buzz" from caffeine - I used to consume huge amounts of coffee - twenty cups a day, each with two heaped teaspoonfuls of instant coffee. That was probably 50% over the maximum daily dose listed in BNF. It helped me sleep!  (In the USA I tried Jolt Cola. I had two cans and two double espressos, which is getting on for 400mg of caffeine stat. I went back to my hotel room and fell asleep.) As a trainer, I ask the audience " So why do we give hyperactive kids speed? Ritalin is a stimulant."  It is one of the few paediatric drugs where body mass does not affect the dose. You can have a tiny five-year-old on 20mg and a large teenager who only needs 5mg.[Discussed in Hallowell and Ratey,1994  " Driven to Distraction"]

There was some research published recently regarding coffee. Apparently, subjects were given either coffee with a known caffeine content, or the same amount of pure caffeine in hot water. [https://scitechdaily.com/brewing-clarity-the-unique-neurological-effects-of-coffee-over-plain-caffeine/]

This was the point I was making about herbal cannabis vs synthetic THC or CBD. "The few studies done with CBD in serotonergic systems suggest that it inhibits 5-HT re-uptake, and overall reduces 5-HT neurotransmission (2,16). There is also some experimental evidence to support CBD’s activity in other neurotransmitter systems such as dopamine,GABA, and the endogenous opioid system." [Russo et al 2015 Agonistic Properties of Cannabidiol at 5-HT1a Receptors.]  Of course, CBD is available in soft drinks available over the counter in any supermarket.  Maybe what we need is a proper clinical trial of some of the individual components of herbal cannabis.

"Cannabis related" deaths. What does that mean exactly? 

And 20 out of how many million regular users? How does that compare to the recommended social use drug alcohol in terms of safety? Or for that matter the recent vaccinations? Or even the drugs that have taken away my friends power of speech having been clearly over prescribed by a whole TEAM of professionals?

If a thing happens to you, and you are a regular cannabis user, then of course it is "involved" or "related". 

The oft touted link between cannabis and schizophrenia or psychosis is definitely real but is cannabis the cause or a self-selected treatment? 

And why, after decades of active suppression, is my side of the argument clearly winning the "war" with legalisation (if only by the back door as with cancard) being rolled out everywhere if the stuff is so dangerous or toxic? 

I'm personally sorry to find myself so in opposition with you tonight Ian, in some of your previous posts you've revealed yourself as quite well motivated and well balanced in your thinking, but in this area and some others I do feel your message requires a bit of argument or as I see it, counterpoint.

From my own perspective although I've found the stuff overall helpful I've also found it very, "challenging" on occasion, and unlike most cannabis advocates was carful to conceal my own use from my child though her most impressionable years and am glad she does not feel the need to use it regularly. 

But in my own case, although I sometimes resent having to pay for it, or go and buy more when I run out, and I sure resent being somehow considered morally deficient for using it regularly, I have proven over several decades of careful and occasionally not so careful testing, that it confers overall a steadying effect on my psyche which allows me to function better and more safely in society than when I do not take the stuff.

When I've tried more conventional alternative treatments they've been disastrous, and NOT beneficial to my functioning. 

"Yer pays yer money, yer takes yer choice".  If you are allowed (or allow yourself) to have a choice, of course... 

"Cannabis related" deaths. What does that mean exactly? 

And 20 out of how many million regular users? How does that compare to the recommended social use drug alcohol in terms of safety? Or for that matter the recent vaccinations? Or even the drugs that have taken away my friends power of speech having been clearly over prescribed by a whole TEAM of professionals?

If a thing happens to you, and you are a regular cannabis user, then of course it is "involved" or "related". 

The oft touted link between cannabis and schizophrenia or psychosis is definitely real but is cannabis the cause or a self-selected treatment? 

And why, after decades of active suppression, is my side of the argument clearly winning the "war" with legalisation (if only by the back door as with cancard) being rolled out everywhere if the stuff is so dangerous or toxic? 

I'm personally sorry to find myself so in opposition with you tonight Ian, in some of your previous posts you've revealed yourself as quite well motivated and well balanced in your thinking, but in this area and some others I do feel your message requires a bit of argument or as I see it, counterpoint.

From my own perspective although I've found the stuff overall helpful I've also found it very, "challenging" on occasion, and unlike most cannabis advocates was carful to conceal my own use from my child though her most impressionable years and am glad she does not feel the need to use it regularly. 

But in my own case, although I sometimes resent having to pay for it, or go and buy more when I run out, and I sure resent being somehow considered morally deficient for using it regularly, I have proven over several decades of careful and occasionally not so careful testing, that it confers overall a steadying effect on my psyche which allows me to function better and more safely in society than when I do not take the stuff.

When I've tried more conventional alternative treatments they've been disastrous, and NOT beneficial to my functioning. 

"Yer pays yer money, yer takes yer choice".  If you are allowed (or allow yourself) to have a choice, of course... 

I believe the data referred to cases where cannabis had been mentioned specifically on a death certificate. Alcohol is a lot more dangerous, and had it been recently discovered, ethyl alcohol would probably be a controlled drug! The fact that it has been in use for thousands of years means it has become socially acceptable.

"Cannabis psychosis" is interesting. Many years ago I did a very basic psychopharmacology course at a university summer school, and the evidence was that there was a correlation, which of course is not evidence of causation. As in most things, I suspect that as we find out more about genetics we will find that some people have genetic factors which affect various receptors, and the neurotransmitters are unbalanced in some way. It may be that in time, as genetic sequencing becomes more available, we will see research into "personalised" medication, including psychopharmaceuticals.

Having ADHD, I slept about three hours a night as a kid. I was taking promethazine for my asthma, in doses that should have at least made me drowsy - it didn't. You may know that it was the sedative side-effect of the antihistamine promethazine that led to the formulation of chlorpromazine for use as a tranquiliser. Nor do I get a "buzz" from caffeine - I used to consume huge amounts of coffee - twenty cups a day, each with two heaped teaspoonfuls of instant coffee. That was probably 50% over the maximum daily dose listed in BNF. It helped me sleep!  (In the USA I tried Jolt Cola. I had two cans and two double espressos, which is getting on for 400mg of caffeine stat. I went back to my hotel room and fell asleep.) As a trainer, I ask the audience " So why do we give hyperactive kids speed? Ritalin is a stimulant."  It is one of the few paediatric drugs where body mass does not affect the dose. You can have a tiny five-year-old on 20mg and a large teenager who only needs 5mg.[Discussed in Hallowell and Ratey,1994  " Driven to Distraction"]

There was some research published recently regarding coffee. Apparently, subjects were given either coffee with a known caffeine content, or the same amount of pure caffeine in hot water. [https://scitechdaily.com/brewing-clarity-the-unique-neurological-effects-of-coffee-over-plain-caffeine/]

This was the point I was making about herbal cannabis vs synthetic THC or CBD. "The few studies done with CBD in serotonergic systems suggest that it inhibits 5-HT re-uptake, and overall reduces 5-HT neurotransmission (2,16). There is also some experimental evidence to support CBD’s activity in other neurotransmitter systems such as dopamine,GABA, and the endogenous opioid system." [Russo et al 2015 Agonistic Properties of Cannabidiol at 5-HT1a Receptors.]  Of course, CBD is available in soft drinks available over the counter in any supermarket.  Maybe what we need is a proper clinical trial of some of the individual components of herbal cannabis.