Appointment with my local Mental Health Team

I got a letter through with an appointment to see my local mental health team at the end of February. I haven't been given anything to fill out for depression or anxiety so they can decide if Im worth treating. I actually have an appointment with a clinical psychologist.

Im mostly sure from what was said at my GP's appointment, that this isn't going to be for Autism or anything, this is just going to be an initial chat and examine some things - social anxiety, aspergers maybe, any one of the number of different options.

I've been trying to discuss with people around me some of the things that affect me, and frustratingly, many turn around and say, oh, that's normal - many people are like that.

Really? So normal people bite their nails, pick their nose and eat it, pluck their hair, walk round the block twice because they don't have confidence to go into a venue, find it hard to ask questions, find it difficult in a group, find it difficult to approach people, don't have a girlfriend, still live with parents? That's about 1/100th of everything I've got written down elsewhere. Im not getting into the contents of that.

  • she didn't diagnose it.

    Just suggested it and needed that for the referall to be made

  • Former Member
    Former Member

    asparagus said:

    It was her that suggested Asperger's. Turned out to be Autism. 

    They are not supposed to diagnose Aspergers under the current guidelines. Did they say that you wouldn't have been diagnosed as Aspergers under the old rules? 

  • u1234 you need to relax more, easier said than done even if you do have asd so what? it makes people who they are I arent diagnosed in the process of getting something started to see what is up try to focus on the more important things that is the only way you are going to get good at them trust me (if that dont make sense to people im sorry) im glad to hear things are going well

  • You know, you haven't been here long but just look at the progress you're making - don't you find it a little bit astonishing? I love the comment 'I'm taking ownership' - Yes Yes Yes! More importantly, you know what it is that you're taking ownership of, and I'm so pleased to see you doing so well.

    I'm not sure that AS people prefer the opposite sex. I haven't yet got a grip on the dynamic, but two of my very best friends are the opposite sex. Conversely, I have no friends, best or otherwise, of the same sex. I'm not even sure that I understand what 'friendship' is, it seems that I've had 'friends' before who've taken and taken, and then disappeared. I've always thought of it as something to do with threat levels, I'm not sure we've explored this issue on here, so perhaps we will.

    I just wanted to make some appreciative and encouraging noises. You're the one doing the work, we know how that process goes, and it's great that you're telling us about the positive things that are happening for you. Thank you.

  • At one time I thought I may have been bipolar myself. I always just fly under the radar.

    Something funny happened today. I say funny, at the time it wasn't. I wanted to speak to someone, give them a gift. But she was busy talking to other people. She didn't say two words to me today. So there was the desperation to go and speak to her, generating upset and anxiety, together with uncertainty as to whether I should be doing that, whether I've stepped over a mark, got too close.

    I don't know why, but I left. I just text her and she said she wanted to speak to me. She was talking to someone, turned around, and I was gone! I can leave somewhere and not be noticed. It's incredible.

    I used to blame other people for not noticing. But Im beginning to understand that I need to approach people, which is going to be difficult, and I have a problem doing that. So I've just told her that Im shy and have some social issues, I wanted to speak to her, but she seemed busy and I wasn't sure. 

    I just feel brilliant right now. Im listening to myself, Im acknowledging, Im taking ownership. While I may not be ready to acknowledge the full truth yet (because I have to wait for diagnosis) Im at least making progress in acknowledging my symptoms. It's almost liberating and I feel really positive and happy about it. It's like a weight has been lifted.

    I've also heard that Aspies prefer friendships of the opposite sex?

    I always seeming to recall preferring the company of women and being able to relate to them better. Wow, theres another thing. I've got a degree of interaction with men, and over the years, I've learned Im not supposed to be friends with women, especially married women. But even now, I gravitate towards women. Oh well, there's something else.

  • I know, here we go again round the endless circle...

    I've seen an endless array of GPs, psychologists, psychiatrists, and all of them with not even enough knowledge of AS to know when to refer someone for specialist assessment. Instead, using their finely honed expertise, I was labeled 'Bipolar'. Definitely. No doubt about it.

    I wouldn't take meds (because I tried them all and, of course, nothing worked) so was labeled 'uncooperative'. They refused further help or involvement because I wouldn't cooperate with them. Never any mention of them attempting to cooperate with me and actually listen to me for once. Bad times.

    If you can acknowledge the truth to yourself, I'd say that's an excellent start. It's probably the most painful thing I've had to do, but I can't say if it's the same for everyone. I prefer to think not. It's about self-awareness I think, and as time goes on, and you chat on here with people who get it, it helps with that.

  • Long wait. OK. Got it. To be honest, Im considering paying for a pre-assessment so at least I got some idea in a reasonable time frame.

    I don't particulary want a diagnosis on the ASD spectrum, I just want an accurate diagnosis of what's going on for me.

    38 years in this life, and things not working as they should. Something is not right. What that thing is, I don't know. Without knowing what that thing is, it's hard to do anything about it.

    I live in a world of well meaning people, psychologists and self help books saying on one hand just try more, practice! On the other hand I have some people around me saying don't change who you are.

    All I know there are some things I don't like in my life, some things I think I should be able to change. But they key to my long term happiness is finding out who I am, what I am, what makes me tick, and what my needs are.

    If there's no problems, I can get help trying to better myself and work at it from a psychological perspective. If it's more of a neurological issue say Social Anxiety or an ASD issue, then maybe, I guess I can learn to take care of myself and do things that are going to be better for me.

    Does that make sense?

  • I admit that if I had set out wanting that diagnosis I may well have got inpatient.  But I didn't. I set out just simply wanting help.  By the way am now 47 and was only diagnosed last year.  I was told not everyone gets what they want at the diaagnosis.  Very few actually get a diagnosis on the ASD. I did get impatient but not with waiting for diagnosis. I was inpatient with no one seems to be listening and i was trying to do everything that been taught to me a very long time ago when.... and things were boiling up. People were listening to me, with what I was able to tell them. But felt like they weren't. It don't help when couldn't tell them much in actuallness.

    Yes it seems a fruitlessly long time. But I don't think very many people get a referall for assessment just for asking.  I think most people have to go through all the frustrating stuff first. For some of us a real life time of frustrating stuff first.  Yes, Psychiatrists and Psychologist and all the team seem pointless. But they all play their part and very much can influence and actually request the GP to carry out the referal. Frustrating as it may seem and you want to know tomorrow that what will happen. Sorry it not going to happen over night.  Even I couldn't make that happen I guess you will have to go through what appears some time wasting stuff first.  Shout and scream all the way through it.  But I think most have had access to some kind or other support first through reaching adulthood etc. It not what you want to hear or read I know but I think you be very very lucky if tomorrow at the meeting the Mental Health Team will instantly make a request for referal to the GP. Sorry but you are going to have to sit this one out. Even taking your History- all over again takes a few weeks.  Or it did me. 

    What does it mean to you, one assums that you want a diagnosis on the ASD Spectrum? What do you hope to achieve by it?

  • Hi CC, That's why Im nervous about going to see this clinical psychologist, because despite my visit to the GP, he didn't refer me for assessment, just for some talkie therapy. So in some respects, I have to go through the routine again of trying to convince this guy!

    My experience of psychologists in the past - they're nice people, they talk well, but half the time, they give you a form for anxiety, or a form for depression, if you don't score high enough, you're cured, please leave. The reason for this may be the lack of funding in mental health issues. What I've been concious of previously, is not necessarily getting everything out I want to get to out. And they can only work with what you tell them in some respects.

    I've also had a one terrible experience of a psychologist in another situation which Im not going into.

    It's also not that Im scared of telling the truth, but that sometimes I don't necessarily acknowledge the truth. Ok, another example. If someone asked me am i clumsy. No Im not clumsy. But I've just been cooking - I've dropped lids, cutlery, lost cutlery in the food, while stirring, food has escaped from the pan, there'll be the occasional flick as Im doing something and it goes everywhere, I've knocked the frying pan on the floor spilling everything, broken the mop bucket and destroyed a t-shirt when I knocked over the bottle of soy sauce!

    Tomorrow will be a new day, I will forget it, put it to the back of my mind - Im not clumsy. 

    Oh dear. Yes I am. I am clumsy, but Im pushing it away for some reason.

    Thanks asparagus for your input. I don't think I can wait years for this, life is limbo due to the non-diagnosis thing. This year I need to make changes. But one of those changes includes me quitting work and going somewhere. I don't want to have to stick what Im doing for another couple of years just waiting on a diagnosis. Oh well.
    Thanks
  • If it helps. I started off through Mental Health Team.

    I had a years worth of Cognitive Behaviourial Therapy. Then had a 7 month break as such as I tried to manage on my own then put in for another  round of CBT sessions. It was that time I was seemingly being passed from pillar to post, but at least this time there was a clear purpose to them at least.  Someone recognised something going off and referred my to specialist psychologist in Aspergers.   She did a detailed history of me that took about two month in all. Frustrating because I wanted help and thought nothing was happening. For once I was able to say enough. It was her that suggested Asperger's. Turned out to be Autism. But the time I first put in the very first place when hadnt even thought about ASD at all, I guess about two or three years.  Never mind all the years before, knowing something wasn't right but not knowing what. It wasn't just straight forward depression. Not the black dog depression but things get warpy or something.  People said to me in the past, I get so far then stop, each time. They could see something I couldn't even begin.  It can take a very long time to be recognised. You further ahead than I ever was because I didn't even think about this diagnosis when first started out too many moons ago. If add it all up. 

    Diagnosis isn't the end result even then.  It don't improve over night. Okay yes I felt brill at the mere suggestion for a few weeks.  But it not all roses once you got the diagnosis. I am lucky and have the right people around but not everyone does. I look back and think if I had only known back as a child. I see posts on other websites that say how can they help a child with autism gain the most from scouting etc. Yes it sticks a little.  At least that child is getting some help because people understand there is a difficulty even if they don't  understand what the difficulty is. 

    Getting a diagnosis is only half the battle. It good to get recognised. I refused to read anything until after I had the assessments.  Autism seems to be a by word in that as soon as I flag that people have more patience on the whole. But yes I did have one major change. I had to in my own well being. It helps when people around want you to feel good too.  But it can be a very long process it was for me if I think back over the years. I guess only about a year in reality but had to go through those other processes for it all to be heard.  Stick with it and be as patient as you can about it may be taking ages and ages. 

  • Yes, I was definitely talking about the rumination, my apologies for not being clear.

    So far, in all of your posts, I've seen nothing that doesn't fit in somewhere with the range of experiences that AS people have, and have had. Looking at other people's answers to you, I'm not alone in treating you as if diagnosed AS. However, I did make a glaring error in that I thought that you had a GP referal, and have been talking to you as if you're already in the process. I deeply apologise.

    As ajl338 points out, only specialists can diagnose AS. Don't think that someone with a degree in psychobabble is therefore also qualified to even begin to assess you. I, and many others, have been definitively assessed by fully qualified psychiatrists as having Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, OCD, Anxiety Disorder (which means, 'I don't know, but something's upsetting the patient') and any amount of other waffle-type 'labels.

    Each and every one of them was wrong. Not just a little bit, but totally, completely and absolutely wrong. The consequences for us of struggling along in the way that you are now, our difficulties unnoticed and unrecognised, has put the very core of our identity exactly where yours is now. Having all these inexplicably bad things, thoughts, feelings etc etc, being the only one in the group who doesn't get the joke, with no explanation, and no idea of who you are.

    We, know.

    You seem to think that you will be able to hide yourself away during a verbal interview. Should you be seeing a proper assessor, you won't be able to do that. I know that it isn't your intention, but you are being disrespectful of their skills if you think you can do that.

    I will say this to you. There is nothing to fear from telling the truth. You are driven to being honest, you can't even begin to appreciate what I can see in your posts because of it, and no-one is judging you. If anything, we are ready and willing to help, support and advise seekers such as you. We do it with no judgementalism, no opinions other than our own, no agenda.

    We could choose instead to spend our days any other way. I choose to come here and try to help others in a way that I never was helped, but knowing what I know now, how could I, in all humanity, leave others to the same suffering that I experienced, when I know that it doesn't have to be that way, and that I can take responsibility for playing my part? I know of others on here who feel exactly the same way.

    You need the formal process, and that starts with getting a referal from your GP. I know some of it's difficult to talk about, and I encourage you to understand that it's important you do. The more you talk to us on here, the better you'll get at it and that will help, but we can't diagnose you. It takes courage, and all the strength you can muster, but you may surprise yourself with just how strong you can be. I can see it in you already.

  • Former Member
    Former Member

    It's perhaps unwise to use metaphors like Garden Paths with people who may be autistic! His difficulty with it is perhaps yet another grain of evidence on the scales. @CC, I totally agree with your last post but we can't force U4321 to get the point we can only do so much and then let him get on with. There is no point being angry.

    One of the problems here is that rigidity of thought (aka obstinacy) on U4321's part in sticking to his idea that it is essential to write everything out is colliding with the idea that you only need to show enough evidence to make the case. You need to understand the difference between an essay, which succinctly makes a point, and a complete autobiography. 

  • Now when you say "leading you up the garden path" are you talking in terms of which diagnosis fits, or are you talking about all this rumination? In context, I'd say you're talking more about the rumination.

    I would never have asked that before, I'd just take what you said and then try and work out the context.

    I guess my problem is despite the list, I haven't been sent for assessment by my GP. Im going to see a psychologist who might be looking at things from another angle.

    There's several hurdles there. First there's the psychologist, who the previous poster says may well come in with their agenda and understanding of who you are. Secondly there's me. Im the biggest obstacle. I don't know who I am. I don't know my emotions. I will say I don't do xyz because Im scared of embarrassment. But that's not true. I've been hiding all this time. I will not be honest with the psychologist, I will self-regulate, I will limit, I will keep everything under wraps, I will minimalise, trivialise and dismiss any issues instead of being open. The written word will be my strongest case to say everything that I want to say through my fingers rather than hoping my anxiety gives out long enough for me to get the words out.

    I don't know what I am, who I am. Im not going to self diagnose. But this may be my one chance to convince someone else that it may be worth looking at something. I just want to make sure I get everything out there so I can get the most appropriate help for whatever my circumstances are.

  • Hi again, Undiagnosed, at the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum, you're getting over involved. Your mind is taking in far more information than it can process, and the ensuing welter of confused thoughts, coupled with your desperation to 'get it right' is leading you up the garden path.

    We have often discussed this particular point before, so please take it as being fully acknowledged by most of us on here:

    Whilst there are things we all have in common, what affects us, and how, is a constantly shifting thing. This is the main problem with 'tick lists' - and you have fallen for it just as others have - just because a 'trait' is listed doesn't mean it's a requirement. If you can't 'tick' a particular box, it has no particular meaning. It might even be the case that as you come to know yourself better, you suddenly realise that you could have ticked the box, but if you can't, it really doesn't matter.

    We cannot possibly diagnose you. You can't diagnose yourself. When I advised you to stop doing what you're now doing, it was to try and protect you from yourself, and I'm sorry that you rejected the advice. No amount of writing, editing, questioning or discussion is going to affect your assessement.

    The list we advised you to make was purely for your GP. They should know enough to understand a 'list' and be able to put you forward for proper investigation, but after that it becomes fairly meaningless. Feel free to write a book about yourself if you wish, but don't expect anyone to pay attention to it - your assessement is verbal, it's a dynamic conversation, not a discussion of tick lists.

    IT IS NOT NECESSARY, NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, FOR 'ALL OF THE PIECES TO FIT'. It doesn't work like that. What's more, you don't even understand yourself yet, this is all new and overwhelming, and it's distressing you hugely - we can see that perfectly clearly, and most of us have the same thing in our own histories.

    I've emphasised this time and again to you, but still you aren't getting it. I can't stop you obsessing over it, but I can tell you how much time and energy you're wasting over it, and it's simply because you won't sit back and trust that people who know what they're doing, know what they're doing.

    Your experience is not going to be the same as mine, or anyone else's. When I describe things that happen to me, I am describing me, not autistic people. Some AS people will identify with what I say and tell me it happens to them too. Others will fail to understand it at all, and some will say they get something similar but far less intense. That's quite a range of experiences, but amongst people who all have AS in common. You need to be clear about this.

    Assessment is holistic, complex, and carried out by people who have trained specificaly in understanding spectrum conditions. They will talk to you, not sit there with a 'tick list' and mark them off. Furthermore, if you don't exhibit a particular 'trait' it is not an automatic 'fail'. The only way that you are ever going to begin to understand yourself will be after you are told your diagnosis. Untill then, the question remains open, and there's nothing more typicaly AS in flavour than being driven crazy by a question that remains open...

  • Recombinant - associative lateral thinking minds huh? I know Im like that. I can jump around from task to task as each one sparks another idea for a lateral move. I very rarely get anything get complete. Unless Im at work, then I stress over being able to complete things. It does cause friction at work because I often throw the toys out of the pram so to speak and feel im being bullied and victimised. Of course, it may be that others are simply better at multitasking and switching between tasks easily.

    Limit myself to a single page? I'm already on three pages describing my need for control, the cycling anxiety and depression, the obvious deep unhappiness, the desire to do more, the fact Im held back, the problems approaching people, not knowing what to say, jealous of other people in their conversations, the lack of connectedness, the lack of depth, the filters, the problems in group discussions, my zoning out of discussions, anxiety and confidence problems going into some venues, the same job, still living with parents, problems motivating myself...

    That's before I get onto everything else including

    How I hide myself and my feelings very well - not many people pick up on me being anxious or being depressed, or my feeling uncomfortable. Like when I go round to someones house and have to take my shoes off so I walk around in socks. It's a grotesque feeling. I can't stand it. But I've never felt empowered to actually acknowledge that before. Not even to myself. Then there's my inability to approach a woman I might like, the fact I don't like dancing (I always said it was fear of embarrassment, but actually, logically, it isn't - Im just not comfortable doing it!), I want to be in the limelight but I can't do it, Im shy, Im quiet, I don't stand up for myself, Im not assertive, some people think Im aggressive, I don't understand acquaintances, my friendship spreadsheet, my obsession with some women, my ability self limit pretend something isn't as bad as what it is in a therapy session, my inability to say anything, my need to script/practice conversation, and then the fact I basically can't identify my feelings, or where they come from, it's just easier for me to push them out the way and pretend it's something else. Take dancing for example. Have I been lying to myself all the time? Do I really fear embarrassment, or is it just that I feel uncomfortable? If it's fear, why do I say uncomfortable now? If I am just uncomfortable, why have I said fear so many times previously?

    And what's changed now?

    I just hope I can get out half of this stuff out there. 

    The bigger problem for me, is that you've got to show where it's impacting your life. Problem for me, is that half of these things, I can take it or leave it. I function, I work, I go home, I eat, I sleep, relatively normally. Everything else, Im generally not bothered about. I didn't really care for friends for a few years between 18 and 24. It was only through a conselling session telling me the importance of having a, I forget the term, but having people around you, and telling me the importance of being in control that I actually bother with this.

    While I can see the ways Im held back, how much it limits me, that's the thing that bothers me. But am I really bothered if I don't go up to the dance floor? No. Not really. Im more bothered people try to get me to go up to dance. Am I bothered that I don't push myself into the limelight? No. Not really. 

    I've never been bothered about not having friends. Im happy being alone. But I know it's not healthy for me. That is I guess the difference. What that actually means? I don't know. That sounds really bad towards my friends. 

    I know the NHS care more for treating you if it causes you distress. I don't think it does though. Does it?

    Thanks for all your posts people.

    classic_codger - when I read what people with autism go through, when they describe pain, and skin picking, the intensity of emotions, the wanting to scratch the images out of their head, the curling up in a foetal ball, these are the times I doubt that I could possibly be on the spectrum. That's why I feel like a fraud and a fake. It can't be. All of the pieces don't fit. 

    I don't know what to say. Sorry to hear you're hurting so badly though. You're in my prayers and I hope you feel some peace.

    You all have definitely helped though. Thanks.

  • Hi

    The idea of the MHT is to help you deal with the symptoms you are experiencing now, like anxiety for example. To them it doesnt matter what it came from ie if you are autistic. Its about dealing with what is in front of you now and how to cope better.

    You wont get a diagnosis of Aspergers as it nolong exists its been reclassified as part of the autistic spectrum.

    The get an ASD diagnosis you need to see someone on the autism pannel, a team who pick up just asd and not a general psychiatrist as they are not experienced enough to diagnose it.

    From my experience any MH professional i have met seem to have an opinion about you before they start a meeting. They determine the questions and ask them in a way to get specific answers that will fit their opinion. I wouldnt worry too much about fitting in all you want to say as they will ask questions about aspects of your life they want to hear about.

    I wouldnt pin to much on the consultation. The MH system works on a medical model of disability, giving a diagnosis and using medication to treat it so you could expect to be given some tablets to help the current symptoms like anti-depressents etc

    Good luck with the appointment

  • Former Member
    Former Member

    Hi U4321

    You are stuck with trying to boil your story down into a neat linear set of points to put to the specialists. As I understand it, autistic people don't tend to think in nice linear stories with a beginning and an end. I have always struggled with tasks like this and have dabbled with mind maps and other such methods. I believe that this is because we tend to have associative, or lateral, thinking patterns where ideas aren't remembered as lists but rather as webs of interconnected things each thing having multiple links to other thoughts and ideas.

    You will have limited time to get your thoughts and problems across to the person examining you. Writing it down may help you practice and recall your stories but I don't think that this will be read in the consultation. Have you tried limiting yourself to a single piece of paper and just noting some key points?

    (PS @CC, did you know that you can edit any of your previous posts whenever you like? There is an edit link that appears on each of your own posts when you are logged in)

  • Sorry about the crap - I did a cut and paste, there's a lot I redacted...

  • Things from the past that still haunt me get me like this. I'll be sitting there, when all of a sudden this picture will smack me in the face, the video will start and the whole incident will play out, but instantly. Sounds contradictory, but I don't know how else to describe it. Completely unexpected and unsought, with no connection whatsoever with whatever's going on with me at that moment. I'll completely cringe, it's like being excrutiatingly and instantly shrivelled, horrified, angered, intimidated - in fact, every negative emotion I've ever felt all in one, huge, overwhelming blast. It often leaves me curled in a foetal ball with my hands covering my eyes, trying to scrape the pictures away.

    And they play again, and again, and again. I absolutely refuse to tell anyone what they are - some of them are horrific things that I've done, 'ashamed' doesn't begin to describe how I feel, nor represent my incredulity that I could be capable of such things. I'm terrified of my ability to do such things, and I have previously described some of the process in a post about 'meltdowns'. It's a pity that we can't post the state we're in, I'm hurting badly just writing about it.

    Now that I know the process, and why it happens, I'm no more comfortable than I ever was, but since my diagnosis, I understand myself better. I can't 'forgive' myself yet, I hope I will one day, but neither do they punish me in the same ways that they always did before. I hope it gives me some peace that I'm learning to come to terms with it (way to go yet!), and I'll take it 'cos it's better than I've ever had.

    Please beleve that I understand completely what you're going through. If I could use my experience to make a protective barrier around you so that you don't have the same, I'd do it in an instant. Sadly, I can't wrap protective arms around you, the best I can do is talk with you on here and hope that some of what I'm saying gets through and helps - even the tiniest bit helps, if you let it.

  • Thanks Zitami. How do I put everything into context? When Im face to face with the psychologist, Im going to completely dry up.

    I've gone through everything several times, writing and re-writing. What's worth mentioning? Is it relevent? What about the things from my past that still haunts me? How do I frame it? Point by point, section by section, or just openly talk about the things that affect me, or start with my moment of epiphany? Too many ways.

    Gah. Im stuck.

    Recombinant - I pick my nose and eat it even at work. Part of me definitely does it to play up and gross people out. But part of me does it automatically and Im not even thinking about it.

    Thanks both.

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