What was your school like?

A young girl who works as bar staff in our village pub is going to study engineering as a modern apprenticeship, she has done he ‘A levels ‘ and won’t end up  a student debt. She will get to the same standard as a University degree and gain practical experience, it sounds a much better way to study.

I’ve read a few autobiographies by autistic authors, there does seem to be a pattern. My experience was similar to yours, one bully was the worst, I was his personal mission, the bullying just went on and on. Sometimes I took refuge in the school library until one day I finally snapped, it was like every memory of him, anger and just about every emotion exploded all at once, I punched him just once  so hard in the face that I knocked him out, he had a huge black eye, the worst part was I didn’t have the words afterwards to explain myself. The other boy was from a wealthy family and was moved to a fee paying school, there was only about 6 months of school left. My father thought I had finally stood up for myself, I had to apologise and got detention, the bullying was much less afterwards, I was looked at as more the quiet psycho one. I’ve never hit anyone since.

Strangely my younger brother had a fire problem, it started with him lighting a small fire in the middle of the lounge carpet when about 4 and finally progressed to him trying to burn his school down in a school holiday . That ended up with a plain clothes police visit.

We would often be told that my father had “gone into one,” his meltdowns were quite horrific, my mother would be ’ ‘sectioned’ during our childhood, there’re was never a dull moment. I don’t think I’m the only autistic in the family.

I’m glad you are back in a teaching environment, it only takes one good member of staff to make a massive difference to a young person.

Ah, School...

Where to start? 

My first primary school was a small. Victorian building, with a nice garden where we grew plants - flowers and vegetables. I think it was ok, I wasn't unhappy there. We moved when I was eight and I went to a different primary school, a bit bigger, built in the early 20th Century. It was ok too, for a couple of years. Then the arrival of a girl who bullied me all the way from there until we moved again when I was 14. She was absolutely merciless and relentless in her bullying, I had no respite, ever, when I was at school. She was obsessed with tormenting me. One day, in the corridor, between lessons, she was at again, and I was ignoring her again, trying to at least, and she hated that, she wanted her power to be felt - so she hit me over the back of the head with her school bag, full of heavy books... It's hard to convey the shock and pain, really. But that was the snapping point for me, finally, after four years of it. Something took over and I fought back - as adults had been telling me to all that time. I'm not sure the result was what they had in mind. She went to hospital to have stitches and I went home. I didn't speak for several days and I didn't return. I am certainly not given to violence - before or since. I am generally peaceful, like quiet and solitude by nature. I was just overwhelmed - by the bullying, the other abuse I was enduring. 

II went to a different school a few miles away, which catered for 'troubled' children. Although in fact I wouldn't have been troubled if I'd been left alone.. 

It was nice there, adults were kind. It had a lot of outdoor space, which I loved. My sibling went too and finally learned to read, so it was good for him too. His fire-starting habits were observed... and finally passed. It was a positive experience. 

After doing other things, I trained to teach, and did, for a while, but it was a toxic environment and led to major burnout. I am now working in a different school role and finding that tough, so whether I stay - I don't know. I'm there because I'm acutely aware of the difference school experience can make and feel almost a duty to try to make a contribution towards positive outcomes. 

battybats said:

and once he started a catering course on his college day everything completely turned around for him- he'd found something he was good at and had something to be proud of, and it made a massive difference to his attitude and well-being

That's a really good example of how practical skills, rather than academic, can be so useful and helpful.

I spoke above about the skills my husband learnt at the long defunct Technical Secondary Schools and he loved that aspect of it but hated the academic.

It sends people out into the world with trades.

I don't know, being completely out of education, whether there is any practical, vocational alternative nowadays and at what stage.

The earlier the better I reckon (by choice if possible, rather than force).

do we need something different where perhaps children can learn a skill for jobs rather than learning stuff they don't want to?

Should children be able to leave school earlier than they do (my mum left at 14)?

I think they probably do still need to be in some kind of education but vocational training (perhaps alongside the basic GCSEs like maths and English) would definitely suit a lot of kids better.

My old secondary school used to organise the timetable so that the kids who struggled academically could go to the local college one day a week in year 10 and 11 and learn something practical. I remember there was a boy that I'd known since reception class who had always been quite naughty at school, and once he started a catering course on his college day everything completely turned around for him- he'd found something he was good at and had something to be proud of, and it made a massive difference to his attitude and well-being.

Roy said:

Debbie mentioned vocational lessons, I would have loved that,

In the school my husband went to, Portsmouth Technical High School, he learnt:

Brick laying, plastering, painting and decorating (home), metalwork including using lathes and a forge, woodwork laboratory, a full screenprinting lab, etching and paper crafts eg. pencil boxes, blotters, marbling.

He still uses these skills today.

A totally amazing school that I would have loved to have gone to but I suspect girls would have been taught 'home' skills.

I just learnt cooking and needlework at my school.

I think that those TH schools were a superb idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_technical_school

I’m most probably the same as many, Infant School was small and not too bad, Primary School was slightly bigger and had corporal punishment, I just kept my head down and went mostly unnoticed until I started seeing a ‘special’ teacher. Secondary School was just horrible, can’t say I enjoyed a single day. The transition from Primary to Secondary was like being thrown into The Colosseums Gladiator pit. The bullying was on an epic scale, I think it’s where we learn to mask very quickly. Debbie mentioned vocational lessons, I would have loved that, in the last year of school a group of boys would be allowed to attend the local college for  motor vehicles studies, I had been working on classic cars since I was about 8 but wasn’t allowed to go as I was in the top sets for English and maths, all the popular boys were chosen and none went on into the motor industry. I would often see the minibus return late afternoon out of a window while that year reading ‘A Brave New World’ and ‘1984’ ( yawn), strangely it was 1984. I went to the college a year later and three years after that obtained my City & Guilds in Motor Vehicle Design, Construction and Components. Quite liked college, I was treated as an adult and not called just by my surname, Mr. was added! The maths did turnout handy as the course involved a lot of calculations in Physics. Only small classes but 8.30am to 8.00pm so exhausting. I actually found my certificates a few weeks ago while clearing the attic out, we had to take a second subject, I found a certificate for City & Guilds with distinction in Communication Skills!  My wife said, “how the blo*dy hell did you get that?” Answer was, “Simple, I just had to attend every lesson and I did!” 

Thank you for sharing.

I found that interesting.

You are talking about parents here though I think, when we have mainly been talking about school.

Not having had my own children, I'm not qualified to comment, but my husband says he'd give the children a 'gentle' smack on the odd occasion and sees that as fine.

I just feel that if physical reprimands can be avoided they should, which I think is probably what most reasonable parents would feel anyway.

In an ideal world, I'd like there to be no physical violence at all, to anyone (especially animals), but what a dream world that would be.

Maybe I’m old school but I don’t see a huge amount wrong with giving a kid a short sharp smack across the back of their legs if they need to stop doing something. As well as usually meaning the child learns to be  respectful it can put a quick stop to certain behaviours, rather than the behaviour being repeated because there is never any consequences (or even dealing with issues that are paramount to their safety). Animals with often reprimand they’re young for good reasons, not because they are bullying. And yes I fully understand we are far more intelligent than animals, but actually when you look at humankind, are we really… 

I went to Glengorse prep school from 1965-1970,and Felsted public school from 1970-1975. Prep school was better than public school,but both were rather awful.

Our experience has not been so positive regarding vocational training or less academic subjects. In our area it seems to depend on how many pupils need a non GCSE course and if they have enough staff to do both. I think the system where you could choose CSEs was better than getting a non pass at GCSE. At college however the level 1 courses seem to be more practical and you can re take English and Maths. I remember a friend with an autistic son saying he chose to do a theatre course at college but his difficulty was the academic bit.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Jobs are a bit of a battleground, aren't they.

I will keep everything crossed for you that it gets better but that, if it doesn't, leaving without too much difficulty is an option.

Thanks Debbie  

I need some good wishes, I'm not coping very well, so it may not be my new job for long!

Thank you Pegg for that explanation.

All the best for your new job.

However, do we need something different where perhaps children can learn a skill for jobs rather than learning stuff they don't want to?

I'm now fully immersed in the school system, despite promising myself I'd never return... GCSE is a wide range of subjects in most schools, many are more vocational than academic- and this is a route open to students when they take their GCSE options. Really, in spite of Governmental tinkering, for political gain, on the whole, Secondary education isn't all that different in some respects. A certain amount of streaming still takes place as well.

Should children be able to leave school earlier than they do (my mum left at 14)

God No!

Today's 14 year olds aren't equipped for the real world - most of them at least. They're still very much children in many ways, with the expectation of remaining so for some time. Culturally and politically, we've pushed adulthood further and further down the line in recent years. 

My son will be 30 next year, and I think his experience of school and the education system was perhaps worse than mine, with there being more pressure on pupils (and teachers) to meet certain targets.

Perhaps it's an unfair thing to say and a sign of me showing my age, but I feel the quality of my son's education compared to my own generation wasn't as good.

When I was at school, I had no idea what I wanted to do job-wise when I grew up. Therefore, if the curriculum had enabled me to learn job-related skills, I feel it might possibly have been wasted on me. However, for people who are more focused and know exactly what they would like to do, I can see that learning job-related skills could be extremely beneficial.

My senior school was dire really.

It was Secondary Modern because I didn't pass the 11+ and there was no expectation of exams being taken so the education was poor.

My education was only salvaged by it becoming Comprehensive and a grammar school closing.

That meant that the pupils and teachers joined us.

I went from being bottom of the top class to being top of the top class.

However, bullied horribly, physically and verbally, throughout.

Caelus said:

i think with private schools too though its a effect that the kids there want a education.
while in anything free, its more a prison camp and the kids hate being there, they are not there to learn they are forced there against their will so they get aggressive.

Sporadic Sparkly said:

I can safely say that I certainly don't miss school and being forced to learn about subjects that I had little interest in.

These 2 comments set me thinking.

I don't know much about modern schooling as I haven't had children.

However, do we need something different where perhaps children can learn a skill for jobs rather than learning stuff they don't want to?

Should children be able to leave school earlier than they do (my mum left at 14)?

Autonomistic said:

I would have happily spent my entire school days in a cupboard on my own, as long as I had access to plenty of books

Quite a nice way to live a life too

One theme running through the replies is that the further back you go in time, the worse children were treated by teachers.

Corporal punishment is an obvious difference, but also just plain cruelty, like the tales of being forced to face the wall.

In my junior school a punishment was forcing boys to stand in front of the class and having books piled onto their hands, and not being allowed to drop them.

I was pulled out of the class by my hair by a teacher in my junior school.

Physical punishments such as spanking were the norm at home in those days too but going further back my mother got 'the strap'.

Some punishments were considered acceptable back then but they certainly wouldn't be now. Corporal punishment did act as a pretty good deterrent during my school days.

However there were teachers who abused their power and singled out certain children for bullying and cruel treatment. Those teachers would pick up on and target 'different' children.

It may have been an obvious difference (like the colour of skin in the case you mentioned) or less obvious in the case of an autistic child. I wonder how that poor girl in your school fared later in life. It must have had a lasting impact being treated like that.

I'm sorry to hear how you were treated by your teacher in junior school. 

Have those memories become more vivid for you since your diagnosis? That's what I have found. During the diagnostic process I had to try and remember my early childhood experiences and was questioned about them. Once those memories have been brought back to the forefront of my mind it hasn't been so easy to pack them away again. Another reason why there should be more post diagnosis support available.

I wouldn't have minded so much being locked in a cupboard. It would have been preferable to the humiliation in class and being yelled at all the time.

During break and lunch times at secondary school I used to seek out cupboards to hide in, so that I didn't have to endure the overwhelming noise and bullying in the playground. I was usually found by a teacher and sent outside. None of them ever questioned why I was hiding there in the first place.

I would have happily spent my entire school days in a cupboard on my own, as long as I had access to plenty of books