Suicidal.

Hello Zeb, 

Just checking in with you. I really hope you are finding support and strength through the replies you have received. Please do say if we can offer or help you seek further support.

Take care,

Anna Mod

When I’ve felt suicidal in the past I didn’t really want to die - it was more about just not being able bear what I was feeling and being desperate to stop feeling what I was feeling. It was because I’d been feeling so much mental pain and fear for so long, and I was exhausted by trying to stop feeling so terrible, and had run out of ideas to help myself and out of hope that it would ever get better. And the ‘trick’ of depression and anxiety is that it has this knack of making you unable to see ‘outside’ of the tunnel thinking that comes with it. It stops you from being able to see ‘outside’ of the walls that your depressive  thinking is building up around you. Thick walls with no windows, and it feels like no doorways out either. But it’s a trick, a lie. In reality there ARE many other ‘doorways’ (and far preferable ones than suicide) to get you out of how you are feeling, out of that dark room. In a way the act of suicide means you’ll forever remain in that dark windowless room - because it forever puts a stop to the POSSIBILITY of ever getting better and enjoying life again. Suicide means the opposite of ‘escape’ really - really it means you’ll never escape that darkness. To see light again we need to OPEN the doors and windows - not lock them forever! 

It can feel like suicide is the only way out of feeling how you feel - but it really isn’t. Even if you do absolutely NOTHING you really will eventually feel different to how you feel now. In fact if you stop TRYING to not feel what you feel it will probably change even more quickly. I sometimes think that it’s the working at trying to feel better that is part of the problem - the attempts to run away from how we feel is actually part of the problem. It’s like we’re running on the spot and just digging deeper and deeper into the ground as we run - digging a hole for ourselves and sinking deeper in. What would happen if instead of fighting how we feel we just accepted it? As in ‘at this point in my life I feel absolutely totally TERRIBLE, but I’m just going to let myself feel terrible, and get on with my life. In actual fact we can still walk, eat, watch, tv, tidy our room, go to the supermarket etc etc even when we feel deeply unhappy. We FEEL that we can’t, we just feel glued to the bed or sofa, but you test it you find that our depression just actually stop us from washing, walking, shopping etc - it just makes us FEEL that we can’t. Call it’s bluff. And doing all these practical things can actually be really helpful because it gives us something to do - rather than focusing on how terrible we feel becoming like a full time job. You can let feeling terrible take a back seat for a while while you clean the car, or decorate your room, or go and buy something you like from a local bakery. Just let your mental state ‘be there ‘ - just radically accept it rather than trying to fight it and make it go away. Because we can’t always control what our mind is doing, but we can be more accepting of our mind’s dysfunctionality - and make friends with how messy our emotions and thoughts are, and eventually make friends with it, because it’s a part of us. Maybe think of it as like a damaged leg, which you might think “my leg is hurting right now and I can’t walk properly - it’s hampering my ability to function - so I need to take care of it, give it rest and allow it time to heal”. You don’t chop your leg off when you’ve hurt your leg! You take care of it and give it the time it needs to heal. Your mind is hurting now, and it’s hampering your ability to function. So what’s needed is not to ‘kill your mind’ - what’s needed is that you take care for your mind, to care for it and let it rest, and to allow it time to heal. It’s probably just very, very tired. I remember reading once that a mental breakdown is largely just an exhausted mind. Give it time. It needs to recover, you need to recover. You need care, and rest, and time to heal. You need to stop fighting how you feel. You wouldn’t stare at your broken leg and shout ‘get better now or I’ll kill you!’ - that would be so weird and ridiculous! But that’s what we are saying to our poor struggling minds when we consider suicide. ‘Get better mind or I’ll kill you!’. It’s not very kind to our mind and also it only makes you feel worse!  And if we carry out the threat it probably won’t ‘work’ anyway because most suicide attempts fail. For that large majority people who have tried suicide they wake up in hospital feeling so SO very much, hugely  worse, with damaged twisted bodies, in agonising pain,  or unable to use their hands anymore, or with damaged liver and kidneys etc etc. Disastrous consequences. When all they had to do was WAIT to feel better, maybe trying a few strategies and therapy along the way to make them feel a little better while they wait. Forgive your mind Zeb, it’s trying its best for you. Take care of it, allow it some time to heal, it’s been through a lot. You mention having been prescribed many medications - your mind has had to cope with being treated like a guinea pig too with various pharmaceuticals being used on it. It’s been through a lot. It’s not your enemy and you don’t need to kill it. Even in its tired and overwhelmed state it’s enabled you to come on here and reach out to others, and probably helped others too because sharing how you feel on here may have been read by someone else who is feeling the same way, and now feels less alone because you’ve shared your story on here. Even in our darkest moments our minds are working away trying hard to find solutions for us - that’s why they get so tired sometimes! Your mind is actually trying to save your life - that’s the irony. Let it save you Zeb - allow it to do that, and give yourself at least the hope of better days ahead. I bet you that one year from now if you come back on here you will definitely have had a least SOME good days, some happy moments, some interesting experiences, some nice meals, some fun days out, some beautiful sunsets, laughed at some stupid thing on tv. It’s bound to happen that something in that year will have been good, even if there’s been pain and struggle as well at times, because life is often a mix of the two, and sometimes the balance is not what we’d choose admittedly. But there’s always light and dark - there’s always light out there somewhere even when your temporarily living in a dark room for a while. There’s still some light out there somewhere - waiting for you. It’s just that at the moment you feel it’s too painful to wait to see it. So please just wait, and don’t act on how you feel. Do something practical in the meantime - it can be surprisingly therapeutic to ‘do’ rather than to focus on what we think and feel. 

I wish you well Zeb. As you can see people on here know how it feels and they do care for each other in this community - there’s so much kindness and support on here. You’re not alone.. It’s not easy to feel how you feel but it is survivable. Be patient with your poor, tired mind, it just needs more time, and more love and care. 

Hi again Zeb, sorry to hear your feeling that way and your in pain, i understand it, I've been there, so i know how deep it goes, its a struggle now but its not forever. it seems that way when your going through it in that moment, and you feel as though nothing will ever get any better, and its been going on for a long time, but it will, give yourself a chance, things will improve, sometimes it just takes a while. you mentioned that you have a few friends, in one of your other replies, and one today that you spent some time with, that's the best thing for you to do at the moment, try and spend more time with those people in your life, your lucky to have them there, its hard, but trying to focus your mind elsewhere on something else while spending time with them can help. i know that's easier said than done, because it was the same for me, try and take things one day at a time, try not to think about the future too much at the moment, some days will be good and others won't, there are a lot of other people going through the same thing, so your not alone feeling that way, it looks like a lot of people are trying to help you here as well, take care of yourself, talk to you soon.

Hello Zeb, 

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and the pain you're in. I can empathise. I think you have already taken some positive steps towards recovery with your art and walking and accessing autism services. There are better days ahead, although you can't see or imagine them now. Just take small steps and don't look too far into the future. Sometimes it's such a big achievement to do the smallest things, so don't expect too much of yourself and just be proud of what you can do.  Wishing you well!

One good thing is that you have a friend who’s an art teacher who enjoys spending time with you and is keen to help you feel better. That’s no small thing. Life might not feel like a good thing right now, but the only way to witness an improvement in that state of affairs is to stick around and wait for it to happen. Most likely it will happen in time - you’ll either start to feel slightly better, or you’ll start to feel worse (and I’m not sure you think that’s possible from what you say). Aren’t you just a bit curious to see how things play out? Life might surprise you with some happiness in the not too distant future - it really can happen. 

Bad day today, did some art with a friend (she is an art teacher) but still in pain.

Regarding thread - I'm struggling to think of anything good at all, let alone finding 3 good things - at least, I can't see the good in anything while I'm going through this struggle.

There is a fundamental challenge in my world view, which is that I no longer see life as a good thing.

It’s very hard to give up an interest that we have loved. I’ve experienced that too and it can leave you feeling bereft.

i can relate to that feeling of wanting to be free of mental pain. I couple of years ago i was at a point where I didn’t think i could go on - my suffering felt unbearable. I’d experienced a very severe physical illness and had ptsd after hospitalisation for that. I was completely broken.
The turning point for me came when I discovered the work of a Buddhist Zen Master called Thich Nhat Hanh. I know that loads of people baulk at the idea of any kind of religion - but Zen Buddhism isn’t religion in the conventional sense - it’s not about believing in a god or anything like that. It’s basically philosophy and a very ancient form of CBT. 
i think it saved my life - it bought me a measure of peace and also I found it so fascinating and it gave me something to focus on and learn from - it was a whole new way of looking at life. 

It might not be for you - but I’m sharing this because it helped me so much - and I was absolutely DESPERATE - I was mentally hanging by a thread basically. I’d tried all the remedies, all the relaxation techniques, countless self help books etc - and I still felt so dreadful and hopeless.  So if someone is feeling entirely hopeless I always share my experience of finding Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings with them - just in case it could help them too. 

If you google Thich Nhat Hanh there are countless free materials online - YouTube is a particularly good source of free videos of his talks (he died a couple of years ago sadly). His monastery is called Plum Village - and they have a YouTube channel, website and a great podcast called ‘The Way out is in’. 

I know you’re in pain and that you feel you’ll never be happy again. But it is the nature of life that all things are impermanent, and that includes the unhappiness and pain that you are experiencing now. Even if you do nothing your mental and emotional state will eventually change. And you’re not alone - this community on here is incredibly supportive and kind - and the vast majority of us on here have known despair and have an understanding of what you are currently feeling. It will get better - and music will come alive for you again when you are well and these oppressive clouds of depression have finally lifted. Give it time and you can heal - even from this. 

I was under the impression that stimming is something innate and that autistic people do it because they have to... surely one can't "choose" a stim or adopt new ones at will?  If I'm having a panic attack I furiously rub my body all over with my hands, and when I'm generally overwhelmed/agitated I rock back and forth when sitting, but the walking is a channelling of that energy.

Im sorry I can't share anything musical as during a previous meltdown, I deleted all recordings and now I no longer play.  I grieve my musicality and now music is no longer a source of pleasure, but of pain.

When I'm really overwhelmed I'm often very irritable and I can't talk to people at all

Yes, im feeling way too much intense pain and I just want the pain and all the noise in my head to end, I just want to be free at last.

How are you doing today, Zeb?

I was thinking, if you want community AND more routine, one place to find that is on this thread:
https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/41225/3-good-things-again
There are several people who seem to post on this daily/weekly, so it wouldn’t be out of place for you to post on there every once in a while.

Best wishes.

Hi Zeb,

Thank you for your reply. I am sorry that you have been dismissed by services in the past, I know that can make it difficult to reach out when you need support. It may still be worth updating your mental health team as they are best placed to support these feelings and thoughts. 

It is really positive that you are looking at seeking support from autism services in adding activities to your daily life. The NAS has a Autism Services Directory that you may find useful if you are looking for autistic services in your area. 

Best Wishes,

Olivia Mod

I know what you mean about the physical sensations that come with mental distress. I’m dealing with a lot of challenges at the moment - complex grief from loss of a parent and also lots of practical life stuff that is causing me immense stress, relationship issues - just a whole bunch of stuff that makes life feel almost unbearable at the moment. It does feel like physical pain as well as mental pain. Have you tried any meditation or mindfulness techniques? Or cold water showers? I was dubious about this current craze for cold water immersion/showers but it really does create a shock to the system that really does something positive in my experience. Lots of people swear by it. 

I have had similar struggles lately, music is a great comfort to me but I've found it hard to listen at times - felt very lonely and overwhelmed with work and other things. Would love to hear some samples of you playing the violin even if they are old.

Repetitive actions can be a form of stimming (has this term been explained to you yet/do you have things you already use as stims?) so when I get really worked up I can end up pacing or walking really fast to try to work through the feelings. Perhaps spending more time walking near other people could be a good stepping stone? When it was COVID my only solace were mundane little chats with the barista at the coffee place within walking distance of my apartment. They weren't much but it did help me flex my social muscle in a fairly low pressure scenario.

Sorry I hope I'm not solutionising too much here or talking about myself too much.  Having that kind of recurring intense pain is awful. Sadly part of autism can be just feeling things far more intensely than a neurotypical person. I find its hard enough to even identify what you are truly feeling other than just "too-much". That's the point where you need coping strategies and at least a handful of stimming options. Happy to share more ideas of you're open to taking a out them, maybe we can even start a new discussion thread on stims?

Last thing - There's so many social rules that I've subconsciously formed and taken so rigidly over the years, you'd be surprised how flexible the rules can actually be, especially in autism-friendly community groups and such. A lot of volunteer communities in general can be quite welcoming as well, there's some cool ones that help do community clean up or do walls to raise money for charity etc. It's not a popularity contest they just appreciate any help.

I find going out for walk massively helpful too. I think the thing that’s helped me most of all is learning about Buddhism (from  reading/listening to Thich Nhat Hanh (a Buddhist Zen Master). His teachings have helped me to find strategies to cope with feeling overwhelmed. Getting outside into nature is still probably the most helpful thing for me. 

Zeb, thank you for coming back here to talk with us.

Sounds like you may need some hobbies. You’ll need another thing to look forward to if walking becomes too painful to deal with. One thing that helped me was art therapy. I am TERRIBLE at art, but there is something very cathartic about capturing your feelings with abstract colors and shapes. My therapist was really good about doing “parallel play” or doing art alongside me without guiding me on what to make. Definitely helped me.

In addition to being an outlet you can look forward to, hobbies can also open doors to new connections. Some obvious examples are video games can open up online relationships and smaller sports like bowling and darts typically have local groups.

At the same time though if meeting new people terrifies you (which it sounds like it), most hobbies can be enjoyed just by yourself. I write music, but I don’t push myself out there into the public sphere, I just write for myself. It has given me a reason to keep going just to find out what new sounds I’ll make in the coming days. I think that - along with support from my family - kept me from the brink the last time I had a suicidal episode.

Keep writing on this forum. We could use more people with your experience, even if we are limited what we can say on the topic.

I need more strategies.. at the moment I only have walking.  I used to play in orchestras but the violin hurts my back too much and I've completely lost interest in music (I don't even listen to music anymore).  I've got a couple of good friends and my Dad... when im able to focus on stuff at home I have video games and reading books / writing.

However, I can't do any of these things when the suicidal pain comes back... for me, it's a form of chronic pain, a deep knotting in my chest and I get so agitated I can't do anything but go out walking, and my mind is totally flooded with thoughts of and planning of the end.  I'm not really interested in any of the local community groups I've found online, although I have signed up for a social group hosted by the county autism service... at this point it's beyond the fear of embarrassing myself, I need to get meeting people again.

Hi there (apologies I can't type cyrilic), Many thanks for your kind reply.  I can only hope you are right, although I am terrified by the idea of a long life, I'm so freaked out about how to get through the next few days, through this episode, let alone all the struggles I'll face in the years to come!  I can't possibly face another 50 years with these problems... 

My only coping tool currently is walking, and my feet are blistered, but they'll have to take me many more miles ahead...

Hi Chloe thank you for the information... I am already quite deep into the system and beyond GPs - I am a patient with a mental health service and have an allocated psychiatrist.

I feel very pessimistic about their ability to help, as I've been through dozens of medications now. I also fear not being taken seriously, and that if I keep calling them about my suicidal feelings, they'll think I'm just "crying for attention" and dismiss me as a nuisance.   GPs have been dismissive to me in the past which has been off putting.

It seems the next step is seeking support from autism services, if they can provide any support in helping me to add more activities into my daily life, etc.

Thanks again

Hello, I edited out my plan because I had a 2nd read of the rules which say  that you are not allowed to share content that may make suicide seem desirable or positive, and not to share content that might assist someone else in their attempt in any way, that kind of stuff... and I worried that providing details of my plan might violate the rules in some way and get me banned.  It seems there are a lot of places on the Internet where you're not even allowed to talk about suicide at all - once I got in trouble on Facebook because the mere use of the word suicide "violates our community standards"...  we've got to be able to talk about it,  such censorship is absolutely disgusting.

Anyway here I am still, I'm yet to carry out any attempts - as you say, they're all not guaranteed and often very messy indeed... I can't stand blood and gore!

My only way to cope is long walks... currently dealing with blisters and bloody achilles heels.  Just about as much gore that I can cope with!

Many thanks for your thoughts

Dear Zeb 

I’m sorry you are going through such a tough time, it’s good that you’ve let us know what’s happening/how you feel. Many people have similar thoughts when coping with so much and we hope you’re okay.  

 If you are unable to cope with the distress or despair, it’s very important to tell someone about your feelings or thoughts of suicide. Call your GP and make an urgent appointment. Your GP can make sure you get appropriate help and support. 

 If it’s outside your GP hours call 111 to reach the NHS 111 service: 

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/urgent-and-emergency-care-services/when-to-use-111/ 

 The Samaritans also provide confidential non-judgemental emotional support, 24 hours a day on 116 123, or by email on jo@samaritans.org. 

MIND have information pages on coping with self harm or suicidal feelings based on the experiences of people who’ve been through it that you may find helpful.  

If you are very close to doing something to hurt yourself - call 999 now or go to your nearest A&E department. There should be someone there to 

support you and make sure you get ongoing support. 

You can find more information here: 

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/suicide 

All the best,

Chloe Mod

I totally agree with what you’ve written here (sorry I don’t know how to type your name on my device with those characters!). When we feel overwhelmed it’s hard to see further than the overwhelming feelings we are having - but it’s so true that these feelings will not last forever and there are ways to connect with other people out there and you are not alone - even though it feels like you are. I know it might sound silly but I saw a YouTube video once that said (I’m paraphrasing) : you feel like ALL of you feels terrible right now - but do a ‘scan’ of your body and you will realise that bits of you don’t feel terrible and tense - and the example he gave was his little toe - he could focus on his little toe and realise that his little toe felt perfectly fine. It was not tense, it did not hurt, it was not unhappy or stressed. I know it sounds a bit mad but I’ve thought of this many times since as a way of realising that even when I feel at my most stressed and broken there is still a small part of me that is ok.