overthinking

Hi Budgie,

If you ever feel depressed please visit your GP for further help and support. You can also phone 111 if it is outside of GP hours. It may also be helpful to contact the Samritans or Mind. We have a helpline that you can also email if you need support: autismhelpline@nas.org.uk

Take care and don't hesitate to contact us should you require any further support.

When my brain gets addled by too many thoughts, I play complex music, very loud. Somehow, it seems to occupy that part of my brain that has got addled and allows me to think about one issue at a time, clearly. Different things work for different people.

It's not a pleasant state to get into.

It is overthinking and analysing and trying to figure out what people's words or reactions to me mean that upset me the most about being on the spectrum. Interesting about 'Social Referencing'! I wish there was more known about this or rather a solution to help this.

I think I would have a really good life if it wasn't for this ie overthinking. It is what causes me to be depressed and what can turn me instantly from feeling upbeat and happy to feeling almost suicidal and hopeless.I don't generally suffer form OCD but my brain does when it comes to going round in a never ending circle. I can reason about something and come to a reasoned conclusion, feel content and then the first part of the circle starts again unconnected to the final bit of the circle where I've worked things out. So I have to start again with self talk until I've reasoned again and then it's back to the beginning over and over. One part of the brain seems to do the reasoning well but the other part doesn't quite get it enough to keep the worked out solution there.

I find it hard to distract myself. The only thing that works is having more things in the chatter in my head. It's like the more new things that I have to think about which take place after the confusing event the better provided they aren't another set of confusing scenarios. So if I go for a walk and see something or hear someone say something it helps. Any little thing. What helps me the most is talking to others as then I add their words and lines of conversation onto the top of my memory which makes the confusing bit go further down the list of circular thoughts.

Hi Asparagus, You say "and that Love seems more critical of each other than if we didn't know each other." I have never encountered critisism on a personal level, within the church. We had our sermons etc which advised on how to live, but no one ever commented on MY behaviour, appearance, or any other aspect of MY life. It was left to each individual to understand what they could from the rector's words, and it was never on a personal level. Advice was always general, and it was left to each of us to see how it applied to us personally.

We are on a road through life, in which we discover ourselves and the best way to live happily with those arround us. There is no single right way, it depends on each person, their life and circumstances. We change slowly and gradually. The church needs to be a tollerant community, accepting, in particular, those whose lives need change. Take for example, someone who has been a shoplifter for many years. If they go into a shop one day and say to themselves, today I will pay for everything, then they have progressed and God will be delighted. They may then swear at someone or do ten other things wrong, but they have still achieved a lot for them personally and deserve encouragement, not critisim. If these people encounter critisism, they will feel inadequate and unlovable. It is for our conscience to put us right, not other people.

"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things" etc etc. My suggestion was that you stop thinking that others are critisising you. If they say to you 'Asparagus, you should not have done that', they have no right to, "Judge not, that ye be not judged". So, you should be able to assume that they are not critising you. If there is any doubt about it, assume they are not being critical, because they should not be critical. Believe they would not treat you like that, because they respect you and love you and want you to grow at your own pace.

Go in peace

Hello Marjorie

I am not a new church member in that I have been going since I was 15 and now about to be 47. I altar serve. This priest is not a priest of our congregation but knows enough of our history because he has been in the town for long enough. I was struggling earlier on this year late last year and very nearly left ours to that church. I been more than welcomed and go to their weekday service and been welcomed in.  That has been good and I did not actually swap. I been able to talk openly with him and he wise enough and through our discussions I have learned that I am part of the family, the Christian family and in essence I can see now that I am treated just like everyone else there in that church. Ticked off when something is wrong and praised when something is good. Everyone talks to me and I am included. I have managed to settle the yearning desire to swap churches by have the other church as my part time church in my head. I am me there. I can turn up there needing that safe place to be at times. My actual church we are in interregnum yet again. It nothing new. We are more used to not having a priest in residence. Only the last priest manage to 'see' me and met me how I need to where as I wouldn't let the others near enough I guess. So it was doubly hard and thus needed to find another church and this was two fold in close to the busstation and the displayed telephone number is a mobile. I hate phones but will text/email. I can text this priest and email. 'And through his help and inclusion into things at the pt time church as I call it, I can see even if I did manage to swap churches I would feel just the same in myself. For I wouldn't be leaving me behind. I would come too. Yes he been helping me on a number of levels. Autism and spiritual and having had the biggest help ever since corpus christie.  I do over anaylise things. I do need to share with someone who isn't going to try and solve every situation as things would get very misunderstood as I know when things are good, sometimes the situation doesn't even exist. I have just blown it way beyond as he says. He is helping trying to improve situations He can. It is good to know that whilst I can't necessarily stop overthinking, I can control it is the best word perhaps. I dont think am always seeking answers with it. Just the inability to let go and move forward.  We had the archdeacon with us this morning because we are in interregnum. I was down for first reading. I did the first reading. It went well. But at end I completely forgot our usual response of 'this is the word of the Lord'. It not in the current book. I just completely forgot it and sort of said so when I realised I wasn't saying that. I went to sit back on the altar (serving) and he did the best thing going. He was grinning at me laughing with me. That will help enourmously. I usually forget the end and sometimes they have an amen or something but this week I surpassed myself really. I am not worried now because he was laughing making sure I was laughing too. The congregation as a whole known me since mid teens. Yes I know Christianity is based on Love and that Love seems more critical of each other than if we didn't know each other. It can be misunderstood and I for one do very much misunderstand it. I take it literally as such rather than seeing it - it because we love each other enough we can say the things that a stranger wouldn't understand. But for me, autism does really get in the way. I know in my heart and head it is love but I turn it around and around and around and hear the noise with the words and goes very much against. That is a very long post am sorry.

Hi Asparagus, I just want to share with you one more thing that has helped me with relationships within the Christian community.

Christianity is based on love. We tend to assume that people are being critical, but within the church I think it is better to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are expressing kindness and love. We all say things which can be taken the wrong way, at times. If someone says something which you think may be critical, just tell yourself that they love you and would not do that.

If you assume everything said is kind and loving, you will feel better towards them and love them back. If they were being critical, by giving them the benefit of the doubt, you are being forgiving, which is a very loving thing to do. "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us".

Go in peace

Hello

thank you everyone for replying and I do take great comfort in knowing it isn't just me and that it is something that happens to us. I am unable to select my overthinking. But may be it is possible in time.  I am a Christian and have support of a very understanding priest. Last Monday, after I had posted all the above. He emailed me and said God's Love is big...... cannot be overthought so if am going to overthink anything, overthink that!!!...

Can we really select what we overthink?

But am taking great comfort in that it isn't just me and that negatives get to us more and that yes some of you others do exactly same and go through social conversations and overthink them. I almost wish the priest could read this and hmm may be he is for all I know. But I know it something I do and have always done :-( Emailing has shortened life span of some overthinking, trust me. But it be good to be able to move on into the next moment without overthinking the previous moment. I can't write stuff down on paper. It don't work for me, I have tried various things in the past. Email is best form and he does 'catch-up' with me and learned things too beyond.

So yes special thank you to everyone in providing comfort in that it is something we do. And at times very much hurts and at times really don't want to but it happens

thank you everyone :-)

Asparagus,

How are things going? Your question has sparked some replies that show that you are not alone. One of the things that comes out of the comments is that different people have different tricks or ideas to break the vicious cycle of overthinking. A common theme is that it isn't a hopeless and inescapable thing to do. We can break the cycle (not always easily) and the overthinking can stop. Has any of it helped you with your problems?

The Clapham Omnibus idea is one that Marjorie and I have found useful and we have discussed it before on the forum

community.autism.org.uk/.../"clapham omnibus"

Part of this is that we have to be prepared to challenge ourselves to be more reasonable sometimes.

I can only refer you back to the first 2 replies. There comes a point when you have to call a halt because you are getting nowhere. Shout stop, in your head only, or as Rsocks says, a rubber band, anything to shock you back into reality. Reality is that you may never be able to get an answer, so just let it go.

Rsocks told me about "the man on the Clapham Omnibus". He used to be known as "the man in the street" etc. This is a normal, reasonable stranger, who in your own mind, will act as your jury and tell you that you have gone beyond the realms of reality and good sense. Then just make yourself let go of whatever it is that is churning around in your head.

I'm still prcticing this technique, but I am having more success, as time goes on.

Thank you Marjorie, your 'crossword' sentence beautifuly sums up how things are for me too. I puzzle, stress and worry about something someone does or says, but it is quite impossible to ask someone what they mean without being treated like an idiot, or worse.

I used to get beaten up by my Dad for doing 'something wrong', but if I tried to ask what I'd done so that I could understand why I deserved to be treated that way, I got some more for being 'cheeky'. It was all very painful (in every sense) and confusing.

Overthinking. I do it, I know I'm doing it, I can't stop myself from doing it, I hate the way it takes me over, and if anyone sees me in the middle of the ensuing internal crisis and then tries to comfort me by touching me...!

If someone said to me, 'choose', I would go balistic! That one single word would push me to the edge of meltdown because they've failed to 'get it', they've missed the point entirely, and added insult to injury. You never know what is going to do it to you. It happens, it's miserable, I know no strategies for avoiding it, it just takes over.

I think social referencing is relevant here. I store up everything people say to me in the day and the facial expressions, then start to analyse them, when I am alone.

Each look, gesture and comment has some meaning, but what? There are so many permutations. It can go on for days, sometimes. I tend to assume that everything that happens when I am present, relates to me, but it doesn't and I have to force myself to remember that other people have their own problems and issues that do not relate to me. Hence if they are frowning, it may be that I have annoyed them, or it may be that they have indigestion, or they just received a large bill, or some such thing that does not affect me. If I have annoyed them, I must work out how, and how to put it right.

NT people tend to use hints, rather than saying what they mean, especially if it is critical. I seldon understand hints, straight away, if ever. People then think that I am either stupid, or being awkward or stubborn, but I just latch on way to late, much of the time.

Life for me is one long cryptic crossword puzzle. One wrong answer makes other parts unanswerable. I don't like a part finished crossword, so I constantly persue the complete answer.

I seek constantly to understand those around me, but why do I bother, when they make so little effort to understand me.

It might be better being a dissatisfied human than a pig, i wouldnt know, but id much rather be a satisfied human than a dissatisfied human, and i think id probably even pick being a satisfied fool over being socrates as well. All the dissatisfaction, restlesness, general negativity, anxiety buildups etc are only likely to end in a heart attack or something similar, but hey, thats just my oppinion:)

"It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question."
John Stuart Mill,Utilitarianism (1863)

(Heard this quote on the radio yesterday)

The reference to Socrates is, in my opinion, relevant to this forum. He was an argumentative, critical, analytic mind that nowadays may have lined him up for diagnosis of ASD. He was executed for his contrariness rather than being understood as just being different. La plus que ca change...

Spiralling anxiety is a real bugbear - I wonder though if everyone gets it or whether it is one of those things that affect some more than others. I don't think it is an intelligence issue - so much self deprecation is bad for you and hardly intelligent thinking.

I've had periods where I spend a huge amount of mental energy going through every possible permutation of something that is probably never going to happen, even though I know to remind myself most of the time it is unreal. And the reinforced negativity really undermines self confidence and self esteem.

I've found ways of reducing it, but I know how much damage I can do myself and appreciate it is a very real concern for many others.

I think it arises because of lack of social referencing, it becomes necessary to analyse incidents in isolation, which creates a heightened propensity for this kind of counter-productive self analysis. I wonder if non autistic people experience it less because they have social referencing as an option.

Social referencing allows people to ask someone was I alright in that last conversation, and also allows people to make effective use of other people's backchat and jibes to find out if they did something wrong. And they do learn from seeing others go wrong.

People on the spectrum cannot it seems make effective use of social referencing (yet it is constantly missing from commentaries about living with autism - NAS in particular please include this more often).

They really is a need for reference books websites to address this specifically to help people on the spectrum with overthinking. But to get that support professionals need to recognise that it is a widespread problem.

Are there parents out there who are not themselves on the autistic spectrum, who can explore that concept with their children?  It might be beneficial long term to explore it, and might help parents understand the stress experienced.

if you realise you are overthinking, it can help in the sense you can then decide on what to do to stop it. As for your question about intelligence, thinking is a sign of intellingence, but if the same thought goes round and round over and over again, it shows a problem witht he thought process, as your unable to complete it, put it down and start on another one, preferrably on a more enjoyable topic. But it is very common in ASD, i too tend to get stuck in a loop, and if of an unpleasant nature, tends to build up the stress, anxierty, misery or whatever else that particular thought creates, multiple times the thought itself would be worth if it passed through my mind just once, and id just make up my mind what i thought about it, then be able to just store it away somewhere in my mind as something thats done, finished, and carry on with whatever else i gotta do for the day not thinking about it anymore. Wishful thinking of course, but oh well.

Does it help to realise that if you are overthinking then you must be thinking about things. If you think about things then you are intelligent. Being an intelligent being can be a source of satisfaction. i.e. the alternative of not being able to think would be worse and that overthinking is therefore a sign of intelligence.

Both of the above are very practical advice and work to some extent for me.

Over thinking is a phase I have to work through after any social contact. I used to do it in the night, which stopped me sleeping. Now, I try to think through events during the day, as soon as I get home. I grumble and complain or just think through my concerns, as though I am talking to someone I know. I put a limit on it now and after a while, I say to myself, that's enough, I'm getting obsessive about it now. I try to look for something positive in the event/conversation that has been worrying me, then push it all away, usings the ideas the other two have said. I am sleeping better, as a result and somehow things seam to get back into proportion by the next day.

Keep a notebook, one that fits in a pocket. Write things down that puzzle you on one side of the page. Do some spider diagrams or whatever you find useful on the page opposite or refer to back pages. Use this to analyse issues on paper.

Getting stuff down on paper can reduce the inclination towards anxiety spirals and analysis. It means some of the stuff is on paper where you know it is. It may take time before it reduces the amount of thinking through, but keep up the habit. I kept notebooks for decades, writing down some right strange stuff looking back, but it freed up mental processing.

You can also reduce worry cycles by means of an interrupt. Flick your ear, or snap an elastic band on your wrist, just enough to break the train of thought for a few minutes. In time replace it with a word or phrase that has the same effect. When I'm cogitating too much a voice in my head says I've had enough of this. It stops....for a while.

Hi

you aren't alone in suffering with overthinking. I get stuck in things that go round and round and I sometimes struggle to stop the loop going round and round. I find that I accept it better knwing that it has a cause (it's related to the ASD). I found that listening to audio books or podcasts of radio 4 programmes was interesting and stimulating enough to break up the over thinking. This isn't just a displacement, you can find things that you enjoy thinking aout or studying or problems that you enjoy solving.