Masking - Open

I masked fairly successfully during school as my brother was 2 years older and I could copy what he did. But when I fell out with him and went past him academically, I really struggled. The person I looked up to was now someone I hated. Now I'm constantly looking for people to "copy" and it usually ends up in me being let down by them. I think what I need to do is use people's positive attributes to make my own persona. Especially with the social media, I don't know how to use it. It's so confusing, why would people share every aspect of their life?

Exactly!  I want a genuine answer, otherwise what would be the point of asking in the first place.

Dawn said:

Oh, OK. I'll save this article. Very interesting, especially on how women's diagnoses can be missed.

Well it is not that women's and also too men's diagnoses as such get missed ~ but that their efficiently habituated ability to social camouflage and personally mask means that their autistic traits remain concealed, with one psychologist that a friend saw for her second diagnostic assessment using the work around of instructing her to, "Drop the mask ~ as you wont be needing it here!" Which she found quite staggering as she did so for the first time since in years, and got finally diagnosed.

Some can though spot an autistic person masking on the basis that they have 'not' been to an autistic assessment before, so end up being slow to script or fail to use it appropriately ~ but most diagnostic assessors seem to miss these subtle nuances of behaviour, so the second assessment can end up with autistic traits being even further masked because the person knows how things are done. 

One case for instance regarding the ability to camouflage and mask in a way that I found remarkably astonishing, was a young autistic lady who was a legal secretary for the owner of a rather successful legal firm, and when her wealthy parents died ~ her routine of leaving her town house and going back to the family home for the weekend ended, with the family home having been sold to cover debts. 

Within a couple of weeks one of her colleagues had the emergency services break down the young lady's town house door, to find she had just stopped getting out of bed and was very close to death, with the bed somewhat soiled.

The young lady understood English well enough to write it down and seemingly respond appropriately ~ up to point, but she had no comprehension of what any of it actually meant, and her colleague ended up adopting her and helping her with speech and social therapy, with the legal firm keeping her on as an employee and being very supportive due all that had transpired.

Dawn said:

I can see bits of me in the "exceeding nature part".  For instance, I have had to teach myself to ask more 'you' questions, but also not to be too blunt about it.  I used to just assume that people would volunteer stuff like "I'm not OK" if in distress or 'I have this very interesting hobby', if they do.  It's been a long road to learn, that people don't necessarily tell you stuff you need or want to know unless you ask. And if I'm not picking up on other cues....I could be ignoring their need or sticking my foot in something sensitive for them.

The amount of times I've had conversations along the lines of:

"Don't you see that x feels y?"

"Aww, really?  Well, they never said."

Dawn said:

And also, that people don't necessarily want the whole truth, or even the truth, when they ask you a question. 

Keep in mind that like a theatrical play that is auditioned for at least usually involving infant, primary and  secondary school ~ it is as such an ideological fusion of fact involving who they were as a child and the fiction of what their parents and society otherwise wanted or made it possible for them to be ~ to greater or lesser extents.

Give them though the whole truth ~ and it will clash or pound against the integrity of their socially fostered and personally adopted "version" of reality, whereas if you give them selective increments of truth ~ it can help their 'whirled' blend more seamlessly with the real 'world', remembering that for many "Life is but a dream!" (or in other words a plan of action).

Dawn said:

That 'How are you?' is just part of a social script is a head scratcher to me. 

With the life is but a dream thing again ~ "How are you?" is a semi-question that should only be used initially as a slice of truth such as O.K. (Zero Dead ~ I and everyone I know are fine), being that some people do not have the emotional strength or time to cope with in some cases enthusiasm, or depression ~ most particular if you have not met them before. The more familiar you become or are with people ~ remember always that some people will only feel comfortable with so many slices of truth, like for instance if truth were sugar some use artificial or alternative sweeteners, or some will not have sugar in tea but two or more in coffee, sort of thing.

Perhaps if you appreciate word play at all:

People's truth quota like the value of shocks and stares can go up as well as down in flames. Being a light in peoples darkness can be seriously uncool! ;-)

Dawn said:

Ask me, I assume you really want to know.  If I ask you, I definitely do want to know, even if the answer is a bit heart breaking.

Rhetorical questions are my main downfall ~ especially if the question is supposed to create a sense of universal mystery where people think it involves a really thick mist rather than an introduction to greater considerations.

Dawn said:

And questions like: 'How was your journey?" at the start of job interviews have always puzzled me.  What's my journey got to do with the job?  I never know what to say, because I can't quite fathom why they are asking.

Well, that can be to see how you cope with travelling ~ such as someone who sets off early, goes to the gym, navigated an accident and a breakdowns and is as calm and well presented as could possibly be ~ they would  get the call back if it is between them and the nervous wreck interviewee who got stuck at the breakdown, and all that.

Coming in by plain, bike, car, train or on foot can be important indicators about how well suited the candidate is, such as one travelling from Scotland to Brighten by train, spending the night or the weekend in a hotel, doing a bit of site-seeing, and scoping out the company or business and their competitors and footfall and retail service standards ~ saying how good everything was, or suggesting improvements.

Such things can really lose one or get one the job.

Dawn said:

:-)  Know that book well.  We draw on the Parent/adult/child concept quite heavily in training

:-) When I did A-level Psychology and Sociology back 1990, a classmate loaned me a copy after I had gone on about all the social interaction patterns I had observed and asked about, but no one knew the answers, with either blank stairs as being the most common reaction, then the next most common was puzzled identification, then that it had always been this way and you just had to get on with it ~ then one person told me I was damned for noticing and walked off.

So twelve years later my classmate loaned me the book, and every single question about the patterns was answered. It took me but a few hours to read, and a few hours to do my PS homework asking, "What do Psychology and Sociology mean to you?"

My course tutor asked me to stay behind with my classmate, and told me that it was more the custom to write a Psychology Dissertation at the end of a university degree course ~ rather than at the beginning of an A-Level college course! And he wanted to know how my friend and I were so knowledgable about psychology and sociology. So I told him about the social patterns thing and having gotten into metaphysics aged 5, philosophy at 6 and theosophy 8, and my friend told him his father was a professor of psychology at a university.

With being somewhat familiar with GPP then, perhaps check out TA Today: A New Introduction to Transactional Analysis, by Ian Stewart and Vann Joines ~ as it is basically the training manual to become qualified at TA, and a self development manual to become more balanced and presently aware.

Lol. With you. Ask me for an honest opinion and I'll give you one. If I ask, I WANT one. My ego does not need pandering to, it's a genuine question.

I hate when people ask " can I get your honest opinion?" Took me ages to realise that it means they want you to say something nice, even if you have to lie to do so. I upset a lot of people before I realised that.

I can hold a regular conversation, okay, but usually, the other person is dominant in the conversation.

This morning, I got my haircut and shave.

It's not that I'm not extraverted its just that I'm only ever extroverted in the extreme. I'm either supper quiet or super loud. I'm either supper formal or supper informal. I've no really ability to nuance the in between levels of social interaction.

100% it depends on how you grow I'm sure of it, my family are very very extroverted and social I'd probably say more so than most people, you know you come across those people in life and the KNOW and are friends with EVERYONE my family are very much like that. so for me I had in a way a great family to learn all different kinds of mannerisms and speech patterns and ways to talk so I'd just emulate certain members of family for certain situations but my autism lets me when I think I I'm "using" the right person in the right situation but I'm not and I'll get myself in trouble in some kind of way because I was ACTING the wrong way. 

It's ironic one of the thing the civil service didn't like was me beginning all my emails 'dear sir' etc. Apparently my writing style was too formal for the civil service. ... what would sir Humphrey think.

Oh, OK. I'll save this article. Very interesting, especially on how women's diagnoses can be missed.

I can see bits of me in the "exceeding nature part".  For instance, I have had to teach myself to ask more 'you' questions, but also not to be too blunt about it.  I used to just assume that people would volunteer stuff like "I'm not OK" if in distress or 'I have this very interesting hobby', if they do.  It's been a long road to learn, that people don't necessarily tell you stuff you need or want to know unless you ask. And if I'm not picking up on other cues....I could be ignoring their need or sticking my foot in something sensitive for them.

The amount of times I've had conversations along the lines of:

"Don't you see that x feels y?"

"Aww, really?  Well, they never said."

And also, that people don't necessarily want the whole truth, or even the truth, when they ask you a question.  That 'How are you?' is just part of a social script is a head scratcher to me.  Ask me, I assume you really want to know.  If I ask you, I definitely do want to know, even if the answer is a bit heart breaking.

And questions like: 'How was your journey?" at the start of job interviews have always puzzled me.  What's my journey got to do with the job?  I never know what to say, because I can't quite fathom why they are asking.

Yes, I hold my tongue in groups of people I don't know until I think I have something useful to say.  People have said they thought me a tad formal and aloof until they got to know me - and found a totally different person underneath that.  I have no idea why they think I'm formal.  I'm not purposefully trying to be.

:-)  Know that book well.  We draw on the Parent/adult/child concept quite heavily in training

I've never been any good at masking, possibly side effect of home schooling. The only masking I really do is being silent in the corner or using very formal language.

As a night-shifter having done rather a late one writing a few posts ~ I saw this and related muchly with what you stated about your childhood, and would love to answer your questions. But sleep must be attempted ~ so if you have anxiety issues masking is occurring, and perhaps check out the book GAMES PEOPLE PLAY - THE PSYCHOLOGY OF HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS, by ERIC BERNE MD ~ or perhaps my most recent posting on the thread Hyperempathy about the joy of other peoples suffering and one-up-person-ship and all that.

Hairdressers...I always take a book.  I can never be done with all that "have you got a boy-friend?" or "are you going on holiday?" stuff, from someone who doesn't know me and probably isn't interested in the response.  I just read and let them get on with it until they have a question pertinent to my hair.  I then give them a polite: "thank you and see you next time" as I pay the bill.

This is interesting.  Thank you for starting off this thread.  I'm going to read the replies slowly and digest.

Masking is the most puzzling aspect of all this to me. (And, of course I am still awaiting my assessment.) If that's all you've ever done and it's become your norm, how can you tell you're doing it?  Am I doing it, even?  How does it fit with those who experience social anxiety?  I have so many questions...

It's odd, I don't fit in many social contexts for sure.  I didn't play with other kids in primary.  I wasn't afraid of them and I didn't dislike them, I just didn't get what they were doing - nothing interesting to me, for sure.  I can't play ball games.  I didn't like the sensations of slides and such.  Role play had no interest for me.  I'd rather be in doors drawing.  I am socially a bit gauche sometimes, slow on the uptake of social cues and inclined to stick my foot in it when I don't mean to and there are quite a lot of jokes and small 'p' politics that float over my head and have to be explained to me by friends.  But, from the age where friendship is based on one-to-one conversation (not small talk, but the stuff that matters) I have always had good friends.  I find myself naturally hanging out with deep, tolerant, often unconventional personality types.  I've often been socially indifferent, but never anxious.  I just accept that I am a marmite personality - you get me or you don't.  

That said, there are situations in which certain responses are required in this life - work etc, which I do find really rather tiring to guess at and produce.

So, I can't make my mind up whether I've just never bothered 'masking', because I can't be bothered much to try to fit where I obviously don't.  Or whether, I have subconsciously to some extent in some situations.

How do you identify it?  How do you know it's happening?

Same here.

I'm now trying to slowly take it off, but there's s lot if surprise when I am myself from family so it's very difficult without s diagnosis. Am hoping for some acceptance purely based on character traits being defined as 'eccentric' etc.

• So far, seeking my own space, is proving problematic baa everyone around me feels compelled to socialise at every single spare moment if their life. It's likely going to fall flat tbh

My aunt-in-law was a senior nurse forty years ago. She is Pollyanna. But I need to play it cool.

I have masked my whole life. Now, the kid gloves have come off.

My aunt-in-law wants to be the bog shot and doesn't want me to get a terraced home; she just assumed that it's a dump of a place. She wants to manipulate me.

I'm concerned about how I'll deal with others, as my patience is wearing thin.