Published on 12, July, 2020
Hi, KW68 here again,
Been doing some thinking and I have been coming back to the idea of emotional intelligence, and how basically this is something that those with an ASD struggle with.
I am not sure whether the issues I used to have with my spouse being upset & my not offering her empathy is a signal of that lack of emotional intelligence, of not being able to tell what to do in such situations (other than to kind of think "I hope she'll get over it"). When she used to ask if I loved her I'd get rather flustered, point to the fact that I was with her, that I did things to care for her, were my response, but I never ever thought to just say "I love you" in response. I can't tell if it was just that I didn't love her, or just couldn't express it.
Does anyone else here have similar experiences of just wishing that emotional conversations didn't surface, of not knowing what to say or do in response?
There's a big difference in responding to other people's "emotional needs" and other people's emotional reactions. Hate; lack of understanding for the needs of the Autistic person; angry responses to them like oppressive tactics etc are also a show of lack of emotional intellgence.
I would say it is wrong to say people on the Autism spectrum lack empathy; because it suggests they are not human, such line of thinking can lead to oppressive behaviours and lack of empathy toward people on the spectrum. To the point where their rights can be incringed upon.
Pixiefox said:With regard to sympathy and empathy, sympathy is supposed to be a feeling you have towards someone, while empathy is supposed to be an ability to imagine being the person experiencing the emotion. But I've read that there are different types of empathy: cognitive empathy enables you to more objectively imagine being in a situation, while affective or emotional empathy means you actually experience the emotion that someone else is feeling. (a bit like Deanna Troi in star trek)
With regard to sympathy and empathy, sympathy is supposed to be a feeling you have towards someone, while empathy is supposed to be an ability to imagine being the person experiencing the emotion. But I've read that there are different types of empathy: cognitive empathy enables you to more objectively imagine being in a situation, while affective or emotional empathy means you actually experience the emotion that someone else is feeling. (a bit like Deanna Troi in star trek)
I think I have been struggling with the definitions. I found
Anonymous said:The term “empathy” is used to describe a wide range of experiences. Emotion researchers generally define empathy as the ability to sense other people’s emotions, coupled with the ability to imagine what someone else might be thinking or feeling.greatergood.berkeley.edu/.../definition
The term “empathy” is used to describe a wide range of experiences. Emotion researchers generally define empathy as the ability to sense other people’s emotions, coupled with the ability to imagine what someone else might be thinking or feeling.
greatergood.berkeley.edu/.../definition
which picks up what you were saying about imagining what another is feeling (putting yourslef in someone else shoes) but adds in the ability to detect or recognise (e.g. through non-verbal signals) the state that someone is in - having a clue about the shoes to put yourself in. So, I think I had some of the definition in my mind but it was not complete.
recombinantsocks said:I am not sure whether the issues I used to have with my spouse being upset & my not offering her empathy is a signal of that lack of emotional intelligence,
I am not sure whether the issues I used to have with my spouse being upset & my not offering her empathy is a signal of that lack of emotional intelligence,
I think Spock would say that Love is illogical! Actually I think we are too emotionally drained and distressed most of the time to recognise love. Expressing the words is also difficult because we are not good at looking people in the eye and talking about emotions. If you look at someone's shoes and mumble "I love you" it isn't going to sound very convincing is it?
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This reminded me of the scene in the movie 'Rain Man' (yes, I know it was only a film) where Dustin Hoffman, who normally couldn't express his emotions, at one point put his head on his brother's shoulder (or somewhere near there) as a show of affection. It makes me cry now at the thought of it.
The other memorable bit in that movie (which was funny) was when his brother was going to take him on a plane and Hoffman's reluctance to go because of all the aircrashes he had memorized, so they ended up going by road.
Pixiefox said:What methods have you tried using to calm yourself? I read a book which recommended focusing on your senses (what you see, hear, or smell, the feel of something against your body /skin, your breathing). I didn't find that worked for me. When I started to get anxious I would force myself to acknowledge that feeling (I don't find any need to analyse what I'm feeling in any more depth than just "feeling bad" - naming an emotion doesn't change it). Then I would reason with myself (in my head, not out loud!). I would imagine I was someone else telling my Aspie self that the emotion was transient - the situation would end - and then imagine myself safe at home, relaxing with my partner. I wouldn't try to force myself to be calm, just try to remember what it feels like, and I found that my brain quite quickly went into a calmer state. Hope you eventually find something that works for you.
What methods have you tried using to calm yourself?
I read a book which recommended focusing on your senses (what you see, hear, or smell, the feel of something against your body /skin, your breathing). I didn't find that worked for me. When I started to get anxious I would force myself to acknowledge that feeling (I don't find any need to analyse what I'm feeling in any more depth than just "feeling bad" - naming an emotion doesn't change it). Then I would reason with myself (in my head, not out loud!). I would imagine I was someone else telling my Aspie self that the emotion was transient - the situation would end - and then imagine myself safe at home, relaxing with my partner. I wouldn't try to force myself to be calm, just try to remember what it feels like, and I found that my brain quite quickly went into a calmer state.
Hope you eventually find something that works for you.
Ritalin worked somewhat! Which isn't entirely facetious, though I didn't like it much as it was a constant roller-coaster and I was always just waiting for the noise and agitation to come back.
About the only thing which clears my mind is when I can hyper-focus on something: occasionally, when I have the energy, I'll work on some programming or other technical project of my own devising although it's often quite exhausting which brings its own interesting collection of problems. If not that then losing myself in a computer game, if I'm in the mood: I don't like going outside, so it's sometimes nice to explore a virtual world somewhere. Except for goblins and things trying to disembowel the virtual me, that's always quite annoying.
Hi Vometia
My other half tried mindfulness and had some success with it, but my head is just too full of noise for me to have ever got anywhere: it seems the calmer I try to be, the worse the noise gets, though that's apparently a known thing with ADD.
I think I am reasonably okay with empathy, kinda; well, I'm good at putting myself in others' positions, even when "other" is an inanimate object, though I can occasionally be a bit hit-and-miss about expressing it. And there's often an amount of bidirectional misunderstanding, because life would be less interesting without it, apparently.
Insightful
I have been researching what emotional intelligence really means. It's not just about empathy, it's also about being able to recognise and control our own emotions. Here is a quiz to test your EI :-
www.mindtools.com/.../ei-quiz.htm
The website containing the quiz has some helpful tips for improving your EI too. One of these is to practice mindfulness, where you pay attention to your emotions and use techniques to either control them or use them to your advantage. I was interested to discover that sadness promotes analytical thought.
I believe that many of us have trouble identifying our own emotions - when I first read about the mindfulness technique a while back, I started trying to analyse my own emotions and found it difficult. Much of the time I'm what I term as "neutral" - not perceiving myself as experiencing any emotion. When something stressful happened and I tried to identify what I was feeling, my best description was "feeling bad".
When I feel what I think other people describe as happy, for me it seems more appropriate to describe it as being in a positive mood. In this state I can concentrate and come up with ideas more easily. I can also be more aware of the moods of others and respond to them in a more useful way.
I have emotional empathy, particularly when it involves someone with negative feelings such as sadness or anxiety, and I think that maybe this is common for people on the Autistic spectrum. It can be very uncomfortable, so perhaps some of us unconsciously put up a barrier to this to protect ourselves, particularly if we're experiencing a lot of anxiety?
I can say I have zero emotional intelligence and zero empathy when it comes to neuro-typical people.
vometia said:Perhaps it would be easier if we were all born with pointy ears.
Perhaps it would be easier if we were all born with pointy ears.
Trouble is, you'd just get pointiness insecurity. Too pointy? Not pointy enough? The wrong shape of point? Uneven points?
D:
Yep, and you might get a situation where some 'pointy-ears' were more 'autistic' than other 'pointy-ears', so much so that they could feel they were born on the wrong planet. Here we go again. But I know what Pixiefox means.
KeyboardWorrier68 said:I am not sure whether the issues I used to have with my spouse being upset & my not offering her empathy is a signal of that lack of emotional intelligence,
Not detecting emotions and not responding to others' emotional needs is the lack of empathy that afflicts people with autism. We still have emotions and can feel sympathy for others' plight. The two words are closely related and, I think it is a particular problem for autistic people that we struggle to differentiate the two.
"pointiness insecurity" is hilarious! I can imagine the comedy sketch now - a lady buying a hat for a special occasion and asking her friend - "Do my ears look too pointy in this?"
Pixiefox said:Perhaps it would be easier if we were all born with pointy ears.
Ahem. Er, sorry for completely missing the point, as I do. I'm never too sure about how comfortable I am reacting to stuff. I think I used to bottle it up more and would get cross whereas I tend to be a little more expressive nowadays. I'm still not totally comfortable with it, but I think it's the lesser evil. And is probably a little healthier for me too.
I don't have a problem saying "I love you" to my partner, but I can identify with not liking "emotional" conversations.
If I start to get emotional I find the emotions difficult to switch off again, so that's why I prefer to stick to "non emotional" discussion. As I'm female, it's more acceptable in society to cry than if I was male, but it's still horrible for me.
I wish I could be a vulcan like in star trek and be able to not show emotions. If people were accepting of it like in star trek too, it would make life so much easier. Problem is, we don't look different on the outside, so people expect us to be the same as them in behaviour too. Perhaps it would be easier if we were all born with pointy ears.