Black and white thinking

I find asking questions, instead of instantly reacting is a good way to give me some thinking space and to find out if it's actually worth actually bothering to talk with this person, or if they just want a good rant. If someone just wants a good rant, then I tend to just agree with them and make sympathetic noises unti they've got it out of thier system. If on the other hand, they've got some sort of ideology, behind what they're saying I'm more likely to just not engage with them, sometimes I will, it depends on how open they are, or if their ideology is a stick to beat others with.

There have been times when I have an ideological or principalled disagreement with someone/s where it's got really tense and I've wondered if it will end with violence. I will stand up for what I believe in and if it's a principal I won't give in.

So true! Works for pretty much every scenario

I'm learning to step back and try to process things now I'm aware that it's more my autism than my opinion that's having the instant reaction.

That's honestly a really interesting way of looking at it. I'm going to use that. 

Measure twice, cut once!

I can relate to this!

I'm learning to step back and try to process things now I'm aware that it's more my autism than my opinion that's having the instant reaction.

I think it also plays into demand avoidance, disagreement could be seen as  an expectation to think of something differently,  which could be perceived as demand so we react defensively.

In short though I'm finding biting my lip a little is helping, I often regret or disagree with the reaction I had after I've had time to think it through .

I'm definately intellectually curious about a great many things, I think an active mind is the best anti-aging device there is, although sometimes people don't like it when you ask questions of a question, but I find their annoyance curious too.

Yes. Definitely. This has got worse now that I've got anxiety/depression. I can relate.

So something that my counsellor taught me was - and I think this an excellent principle to hold to irrespective of whether you are on the spectrum or not: is to choose to remain intellectually curious. 

To me most things are a grey area, I ask lots of questions, many of them awkward ones and people don't like it. There are a few areas that are entirely black and white, but much of it is really just an opinion. People seem to have lost the ability to agree to disagree, to compromise, to discuss and debate, to listen to speak without abuse.

I prefer the term binary thinking too, it's something we're encouraged to do, do we prefer this or that, chips or mash and the gods help you if you dislike ether! (I'm using potatoes as an example by the way for the more literal minded of you). If you don't like potatoes or prefer them roast or jacketed, then you will be othered to some extent, you may just get away with prefering roasties, but if you don't like potatoes at all you will be othered.

I don't think we give ourselves enough time to learn which we like and create an informed opinion, people don't like it when you say you don't really have an opinion, then you lack empathy care awareness etc. We allow ourselves to bullied into picking a side, not having a side means being an outcast even when it is about potatoes.

Binary thinking leads us down all sorts of paths with little of value at the end of them, most of the interesting stuff is happening in the middle ground. Next time someone asks you an either or question, stop and ask youself and them why it has to be that way, what are their motives in asking you to choose? Why does the world need to be divided this way?

I'm very prone to a "knee jerk" reaction, which can lead me into confrontation. What I've discovered quite recently is that I often need time to process new information to integrate it into my thoughts so I can deal with it calmly. As often as not I'll find that I was right all along <ironic laughter!> It can be a big problem if I don't feel I have space to do this - I think this may have been the cause of meltdowns in my early years. I must find thinking space.

Hopefully over time I will learn this more as I do try to be as open minded as I can but sometimes I get stuck in my own bubble for too long.

I find it quite hard to hide my emotions though! Or I can do it for a while but then my reaction becomes even bigger because I’ve been keeping it in for so long.

because arguments are multifaceted.... you may see their point of view, and perhaps even agree with them... but then you oppose them and say they are wrong based on their conduct of how they said the same equivalent was wrong before so now you use their previous arguments against them to say they are wrong now if they said the same thing was wrong before... it all depends

That post mirrors my own experience. You speak my truth too, and proabbaly better than I could manage.. 

Thank you.

This has been a big problem of mine, and a constant cause of friction.

With age I have learnt to be more tolerant, which generally involves swallowing my tongue and letting people be wrong.

There are still times when I absolutely know I am factually and undeniably right, but I have learnt that it doesn't matter. People want to believe whatever they want to believe and things like logic and evidence don't matter and if I fight it then it only results in both parties being annoyed.

Fundamentally I just don't understand how, when you have all the evidence and still come to the wrong conclusion, then it feels like you are lying and that is what makes me angry. And then I get angry. But after many years, I've learned, it's just not worth it to even try. Let people be deluded and wrong about things. Move on with your life.

Some people have changed my mind about things, and I really appreciate that more than anything, because to me, learning that I was wrong is fascinating and exciting and I'm thankful to whomever enlightened me. I don't have an ego that cares about myself. I really only care about the truth and if I was wrong about something then I consider that a helpful thing to discover which improves my life. This is why neurodiverse people tend to me more interesting to interact with.

It seems for most people, being wrong is an emotion that they strongly feel which makes them very angry and causes them to attack anyone who made them challenge their views, so I've learned to opt out of most debates.

Yeah, other cultures, its just about realizing everybody is different. Takin issue with people with different opinions, is just immaturity to me. if you are confident in your own perspective, others people are not enemies to be combated. You move around them, you nod your head, say whatever. you don have to take  a black and white crusade attitude to every interaction. Its about being zen, that the world is not something we can control. You can be an ideologue on a sacred mission all you want, but when you bump up against hard reality to quote axel rose: welcome to the jungle baby, you're gonna diiiiie.

I agree. The double take is more of a slowing down the processing time, and not giving into knee jerk reactivity. If its a sensitive issue, you cant have a tantrum and blow up and act foolish. Nt's pounce on this stuff. They also like to gang up, if you show yourself to be...'different' or sensitive.

There's this thing called maturity and not being a crybaby. If you want to be respected by NT's, last thing you want to do is have a trantrum, or show you're are upset. Laugh it off. they will respect you, for it shows you are strong. NT's only respect robustness. Even if you are annoyed inside. luckily i have  an excellent poker face, and low reactivity to most things people say.

Aimée said:

does anyone else find it hard to have calm discussions with others due to seeing things as more black and white?

This is quite a common autistic trait and one I had when I was younger.

It was only once I found my work took me round the world and I got to experience other cultures and opinions from the regional office staff that I started to consider my binary thinking was inadequate to accommodate the situaiton I was in.

I found the technique of mindfulness incredibly helpful to shape my opinions in the light of this wider world view and I also learned skills as a manager (negotiating, motivating and critical analysis amongst others) which led me to see the world though the eyes of others - this makes a lot of difference.

There are times when the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few so handling these situations when you have to chose a route that offends one party to avoid many others is a difficult one but hardens you to the reality of the world.

That was a bit of a ramble but I hope my path to overcoming this can show it is not fixed if you are willing to work on it.

I know exactly how you feel. The trick is to not overreact but to do a double take and try try to see the argument from the other person's point of view.

The fact that you acknowledge that you have this problem is a big step forward.  Some people I know see almost everything black and white and their views are set in concrete.