Is anyone else interested? I'm not party political, because I find to much that is disagreeable about the various parties, for every plus point theres an equal minus one.
I realise this might be contravercial to some, is politics a taboo subject on here?
What autism friendly policies would you like to see parties take up?
It's interesting that tribalism has come up over and over again on this thread, and of course a distrust of it.
Could this distrust of tribes be an autistic thing?
Is it because we're usually the ones nobody wants in their tribe?
Is it because we see the games tribes play?
Are we a tribe and if we are what are the characteristics?
I was in favour of referenda until the one on should we replace FPTP. Oh that was such a disaster! I think that must have been the final nail in the coffin of any hope I ever had in politics. The question should have been "should we keep FPTP or replace it with something else, to be decided if we agree to a change" NOT pick a system most people thought was not suitable and offer that as the only alternative.
I also dislike party politics, for similar reasons.
I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised to read this thread and find it not to be full of vitriol (as a comparison both to other discussions on politics and other discussions on this forum!)
Autism friendly policies I would like to see would be to fix the health service and benefit system in a way which makes it better not worse. That would be the place to start. So much else as well but that will do for now!
In general I agree with (I think it was Churchill who said) democracy is the worst political system apart from all the others! Our main problem with it has to be that most people do not think deeply about the issues but are swayed by ridiculous things like charisma (which is known to be a psychopathic trait) and tribalism. And we are almost by definition never a majority, so being ruled by the majority will not suit us, (unless a majority can be convinced to respect minorities) and we are all quite different so even autopia might be hard to agree to suit everyone...
I agree that extreme is bad, but sadly not that centrism pleases everyone. It seems more that centrism displeases everyone, but somewhat less than the opposite extreme! It might be OK if we had a voting system which allowed people to settle for less bad. In today's overly polarised world anyone in the middle is to the wrong side of either side. We desperately need less polarisation, but social media algorithms encourage polarisation, on many things, not just politics.
The whole Brexit referendum was a mess as was the way we left. Part of the problem was the way Cammeron decided how to frame the question and the 50-50 split. I dont' think people could know what they were voting for as the question was not nuanced enough, a 4% majority I dont' think was enough for such a major desicion. It did get very tribal, with more moderate voices on both sides being drowned out, I don't think for a minute that every Brexit voter wanted a hard brexit and I don't see how the likes of the ERG could say they did. How can people say they know what they voted for when there was no real idea's given about what sort of deal there should be or could be? I think we should of had a refereendum on the final deal with remain on the ballot. Does anyone who voted for Brexit feel they've got what they were promised?
yeah far anything is bad... if you go far your going extremist, extremism is bad.
centrism pleases everyone and most people are close to center, if they are on right or left majority are still close to the center. going too far one side is extreme brainwashed. normality is having a mix of views that span both spectrums, thus making everyone who is sane more central.
The far left are as dangerous as the far right.
Pragmatism with vision is what we need, not a government of ideologues with a plan which will benefit only themselves and their ilk.
Sadly, that's where we are.
Tory philosophy- Do well in the genetic lottery of life, and we'll go overboard in praising you . Do badly in the genetic lottery of life and we'll criticise and condemn you as much as we can.
Journalistic integrity was once a real thing I am told.
I'm not sure it ever was. Look how ghastly the Sun was in the 1980's, telling blatant lies about Hillsborough on its front page. Even as far back as Victorian days news was manipulated.
Every piece of news we hear, whether through papers, TV, Radio, internet, Twitter, YouTube etc is framed by the perspective and motives of the person or people communicating it to us. It staggers me how many people dont seem to see this basic fact
I agree, that is the conclusion I have come to from a lifetime of studying people. Humans want to be part of a tribe, and follow the herd. That includes politically. People define themselves as Left or Right and then frame their views and beliefs based on that. I have never understood that. I dont define myself as left or right at all. I have some views that would be considered left wing and some that would be considered right wing. I think this tribalism takes away peoples ability to make the right decisions and consider situations rationally.
People are manipulated by their social media feeds 100%, in the same way they used to be manipulated by tabloid headlines
oh we are heading back to religious rule... just not christian... its going to be islamic and it cant be stopped now and anyone denying it doesnt really matter as it will happen and then they who deny today will be the right wing opposing it tommorow... while the right wing who opposed it originally will be the ones who have accepted islam by that point and given up hope a its clearly too far by that point.
Sadly people in the UK pay to much attention to the media and frame their opinions based on what side they already support rather than evaluating the facts and then trying to come to a logical decision. I think that is our mentality as a country. I blame the tabloid media and more lately social media.
Sadly, I agree that all the evidence I have seen, supports this perspective. I am sad that people are blind (or simply uncaring) that they are blatantly and incredibly effectively, manipulated by their "feeds." I presume that "people" find tribalism comforting and inclusive.....whereas I think it is blinkered and dangerous.
people seem to have lost their minds all over the world
Quote of the day
Thank you! Nice to talk to you all again too
The thing with the Brexit refurendum was it became a Left v Right tribal issue which seemed incredibly stupid to me. Traditionally there are plenty of left wing people who did not want us to be part of the EU including Tony Benn and originally Jeremy Corbyn. Equally there are plenty of right wing people who supported the EU, including originally Boris Johnson.
Sadly people in the UK pay to much attention to the media and frame their opinions based on what side they already support rather than evaluating the facts and then trying to come to a logical decision. I think that is our mentality as a country. I blame the tabloid media and more lately social media.
I would like to live somewhere that people try to logically come to the right decisions and can engage in reasoned debate even if they disagree. Im not sure any such country exists. Perhaps Switzerland is closest. I think Germany and Netherlands used to be such countries but sadly in the era of Twitter people seem to have lost their minds all over the world
That is true here but not in Switzerland I believe. I think part of the problem here is we're not used to refurendums so when they happen everyone goes crazy. Also I think the politicians and media become very tribal and want us all to pick their side. It becomes more about which side wins rather than getting the right outcome
In Switzerland I believe it is far more matter of fact and about just asking people what they think and coming together for the best outcome for the country
i think the corbyn crowd and his momentum are actually the extreme far left communists of the party.
which then make all the standard left socialists all look bad and confuse the issue. yeah your better off without those types.
starmers done a good job centering the party and making it suitable for everyone and got rid of the control of the extremist communists that would throw us all under a bus for their selfish ideology.
and yeah they dont care about anything, those people they virtue signal and use things and lie about them for their own purposes and gains.
I'm more of a 'political animal' than the average person, but way of being a 'political nerd'(for want of a better phrase). I'm a member of the Labour party. Self define as a 'pragmatic socialist' . Voted for Yvette Cooper in 2015. Don't like the pro Corbyn, anti Starmer pseudo-socialists. They're quite happy to sacrifice the disabled and/or vulnerable in a quixotic quest for an ultra l/w utopia. They'd like Labour to be an ideologically pure perpetual protest party rather than one that can win an election and change things. I'll never understand the mentality of those who condemn Labour for not being left wing enough, and then are quite happy to enable a decidedly more r/w Tory party.
The current let's attack Labour and Starmer over Gaza bs really pees off. They don't give a flying f**k about those in Gaza, that's evidenced by sod all mention of Hamas and the Tories.
The problem with the referendum on leaving the EU (or the "Brexit referendum" - weighting already being put a certain way rather than using neutral language...) is that it was Cameron pandering after Farage and his followers. Maybe more referenda are a good idea but it has to be for the right reasons ie a better society, rather than garnering votes and favour.
