Elections and politics

I think neurodivergent, in particular, autistic people have different social values and a keen sense of authenticity. One has to give something of that up to belong to a group. Having said that, I do sense - and its only a sense because I don't actually engage with social media - but it seems some autistic people do have a tribe mentality of NT vs AS but it possibly stems from a different place.

"Pleasantly surprised by the lack of vitriol". 

Well, we do have careful and effectvive moderation, PLUS on several occasions I've seen people simply STAND UP to the "crybullies" and calmly but relentlessly expose ratrher than accept the worngness that they try to push. 

I thiink I can speak for the majority of Autists (on this point only perhaps) we've all take a LOT OF CRAPULENCE over the years, from people who both think we are somehow intrinsically "wrong" and appoint themselves as the person who will "set you straight" and we simnply don't need it here. 

Initially when the crybabies started up here with their nonsense there was an exodus of some of the most gentle souls from the forum, which hit my "friends list" quite badly, but as a group (mebership adn moderation team we seem to have "self organised" about one and a half to two years ago, to "marginalise the,malicious", which I did expect having once worked at a firm which I now know to have been chock full of Autists, where the same thing happened, and such people were correctly marginalised.

Until they got taken over and re-organised along more NT lines, of course. First thing they did was re-interview everyoen for tehir job, adn eliminate anyone who liked the "Autist friendly" way the company operated before...They went (within one year after takever) from being the pre-eminent company in it's field, IN THE WORLD, to some short of shell company that has no prescence or impact whatsoever... 

There are also a few people here who genuinely seem to be capable of learning and adjusting their attitudes towards other members. I've seen a few peoeple turn up here expressing the most crappy of attitudes, and morph into productive and useful members.

It's good.   

I do that too Billy, the anthropology thing. I've never been able to keep my big gob shut, it takes no courage to speak truth to power or anything like that, I just open my mouth and out it all pours. I've got into so much trouble for it over the years.

That's a very interesting question. Speaking personally, I feel like we can see through things a lot more easily than NT people and we can observe their need to part of a tribe and see the flaws in the logic of each tribe. For instance, how it seems like you have to sacrifice your intelligence and independence of thought to be part of one. I try to observe NT human behaviour in the same way anthrapologists observe different groups of species in the animal kingdom. I find it quite interesting. A bit like the naturalist who lived with the gorillias.

I do think there is an element of no one wanting us in their tribe too. Growing up I always wanted to be part of a scene or a group but I never fitted in anywhere. Now I understand my autism I know why 

Tories persecute us, Labour patronise us. Can't say I like either

It's interesting that tribalism has come up over and over again on this thread, and of course a distrust of it.

Could this distrust of tribes be an autistic thing?

Is it because we're usually the ones nobody wants in their tribe?

Is it because we see the games tribes play?

Are we a tribe and if we are what are the characteristics?

I was in favour of referenda until the one on should we replace FPTP. Oh that was such a disaster! I think that must have been the final nail in the coffin of any hope I ever had in politics. The question should have been "should we keep FPTP or replace it with something else, to be decided if we agree to a change" NOT pick a system most people thought was not suitable and offer that as the only alternative.

I also dislike party politics, for similar reasons.

I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised to read this thread and find it not to be full of vitriol (as a comparison both to other discussions on politics and other discussions on this forum!)

Autism friendly policies I would like to see would be to fix the health service and benefit system in a way which makes it better not worse. That would be the place to start. So much else as well but that will do for now!

In general I agree with (I think it was Churchill who said) democracy is the worst political system apart from all the others! Our main problem with it has to be that most people do not think deeply about the issues but are swayed by ridiculous things like charisma (which is known to be a psychopathic trait) and tribalism. And we are almost by definition never a majority, so being ruled by the majority will not suit us, (unless a majority can be convinced to respect minorities) and we are all quite different so even autopia might be hard to agree to suit everyone...

I agree that extreme is bad, but sadly not that centrism pleases everyone. It seems more that centrism displeases everyone, but somewhat less than the opposite extreme! It might be OK if we had a voting system which allowed people to settle for less bad. In today's overly polarised world anyone in the middle is to the wrong side of either side. We desperately need less polarisation, but social media algorithms encourage polarisation, on many things, not just politics.

The whole Brexit referendum was a mess as was the way we left. Part of the problem was the way Cammeron decided how to frame the question and the 50-50 split. I dont' think people could know what they were voting for as the question was not nuanced enough, a 4% majority I dont' think was enough for such a major desicion. It did get very tribal, with more moderate voices on both sides being drowned out, I don't think for a minute that every Brexit voter wanted a hard brexit and I don't see how the likes of the ERG could say they did. How can people say they know what they voted for when there was no real idea's given about what sort of deal there should be or could be? I think we should of had a refereendum on the final deal with remain on the ballot. Does anyone who voted for Brexit feel they've got what they were promised?

yeah far anything is bad... if you go far your going extremist, extremism is bad.

centrism pleases everyone and most people are close to center, if they are on right or left majority are still close to the center. going too far one side is extreme brainwashed. normality is having a mix of views that span both spectrums, thus making everyone who is sane more central.

We're typically centrist. Far right/left doesn't play well on the whole. 

The far left are as dangerous as the far right.

Pragmatism with vision is what we need, not a government of ideologues with a plan which will benefit only themselves and their ilk. 

Sadly, that's where we are. 

Tory philosophy- Do well in the genetic lottery of life, and we'll go overboard in praising you . Do badly in the genetic lottery of life and we'll criticise and condemn you as much as we can.

I Sperg said:

Journalistic integrity was once a real thing I am told. 

I'm not sure it ever was. Look how ghastly the Sun was in the 1980's, telling blatant lies about Hillsborough on its front page. Even as far back as Victorian days news was manipulated.

Every piece of news we hear, whether through papers, TV, Radio, internet, Twitter, YouTube etc is framed by the perspective and motives of the person or people communicating it to us. It staggers me how many people dont seem to see this basic fact 

I agree, that is the conclusion I have come to from a lifetime of studying people. Humans want to be part of a tribe, and follow the herd. That includes politically. People define themselves as Left or Right and then frame their views and beliefs based on that. I have never understood that. I dont define myself as left or right at all. I have some views that would be considered left wing and some that would be considered right wing. I think this tribalism takes away peoples ability to make the right decisions and consider situations rationally. 

People are manipulated by their social media feeds 100%, in the same way they used to be manipulated by tabloid headlines 

oh we are heading back to religious rule... just not christian... its going to be islamic and it cant be stopped now and anyone denying it doesnt really matter as it will happen and then they who deny today will be the right wing opposing it tommorow... while the right wing who opposed it originally will be the ones who have accepted islam by that point and given up hope a its clearly too far by that point.

Billy87 said:

Sadly people in the UK pay to much attention to the media and frame their opinions based on what side they already support rather than evaluating the facts and then trying to come to a logical decision. I think that is our mentality as a country. I blame the tabloid media and more lately social media.

Sadly, I agree that all the evidence I have seen, supports this perspective.  I am sad that people are blind (or simply uncaring) that they are blatantly and incredibly effectively, manipulated by their "feeds."  I presume that "people" find tribalism comforting and inclusive.....whereas I think it is blinkered and dangerous.

I think voter turnout is usally less than 50%. In Australia it is mandatory I believe. 

Its a very interesting question. I think if political parties knew that the whole country was voting they would be forced to be more accountable and actually create policies that benefited people and improved the country 
Under the present system they can be more complacent and just assume that the same people will vote every time and ignore everyone else 

none of the above is there.... it is voting for someone listed as "independant" .... independant isnt a party, its not brexit, its not racist.... its a local stand alone person who doesnt have a party....

when you all vote for a independant, if we all vote for that we destroy party power, we destroy party politics... you get true change... when no party has any vote, you get change, you have individuals standing by their own policy, no more parties... you get change... a system wide change.