Contradictions within Autism

Steven said:

I resent myself for constantly troubling others

both - the need to do it and the resentment will come to pass at some point. At least it did in my case

NAS83898,

I get it.  I've experienced rejection throughout my life but am still making an effort to try to give people a chance to support me, like here.  

I'm so glad to hear you're not feeling as alienated.  Your self awareness is a positive too.  I'm also very self aware. 

I make an effort not to reject people but will call out comments I feel are not warranted. ;-)

Yes thanks, I do not feel as alienated as I did which is an unusual emotion for me. I had come to accept the feeling of alienation as par for the course during my many years here in the UK. I even obtained naturalisation foolishly thinking it would make any difference. Be advised that I respond very negatively to the slightest "sniff" of rejection, not necessarily outwardly, as I have come to be preconditioned to expect it having spent the majority of my life here.

out_of_step said:

It's automatic for me to ask others how they are in return when often actually I don't care and I'm just being polite.

I had to learn this as a practical application. And then practice. Now I'm in the habit of NEVER sending an email immediately as opposed to 20 years ago. And 9.8 times out of 10 when re-reading before I hit send, I have to add, "how are you" or "how was -- something".

I don't like being asked these questions either. I want to talk about theories and multiverses and dead interesting things. Not trivial feelings which come and go because... I discovered I have alexithymia but also feel it's a bit of an invasion to ask. And trivial. Tomorrow or in an hour I might feel different. Feelings have little bearing on a thing. 

A lot of these aren't contradictory. 

Most seem fundamental to the way we think: Difficulty with vocabulary / words / language and Semiotics (signs). But there are so many ways to communicate and connect. It's possible the Au brain is not designed with the same 'motherboard' and so just doesn't take-in the 'encoding' which is used for assigning Theatrics within NT social situations. We're also wired to see things as they are, which is great if you're foraging or work in Health and Safety. It's talked about as less of an ability to filter out unwanted incoming signals. But we can also say, we don't really dull our senses. However, the "too much detail" can slow our processing down. Both of these will contribute to not getting the education we needed growing up in a society we're a bit of a mismatch for. We'll have missed some crucial points about how to do "human"... or how to do it in modern society with a fluidity.

1. A people pleaser can involve Fawning (fight, flight, freeze, fawn) a mechanism learned from abuse, but it can involve the need to connect from never feeling genuinely known. Social conventions are created to keep everyone in their lane, at a similar pace, moving along.

2. Getting swept along when I don't want to is about the need for step-by-step practical boundaries. Many of us just don't understand these, even though we kind of genuinely like ourselves.

3. Less Filtering implies a deeper impact. Once we can get a vision or set a goal, we feel almost tied to it like an anchor: see Monotropism. The impact of things will always be more severe for Autists: whether a smell or taste or understanding or feeling / vibe. Emotions take up space. Some humans can fill an entire room. There's a bit of neurology looking into how our brainwaves connect with others and one could always look at the nano particles exchanging 'packets of information' in Thin Air and flying back up their nose when falling in love.

4. Has to do with recognising a system/structure and its accompanying aesthetic. Also less filtering plus lack of innate social 'codes'

6. Introversion/Extroversion is how we recharge/ regenerate. Everyone is attracted to like-minded others with similar values.

7. If you're a picture thinker, navigation might be easy. One can navigate by using their senses: view point, geometry, there's some theories we might be able to sense the polar magnets...  But L & R are vocabulary assignments. And accessing words and their meaning can be difficult.

8. A different perception of time/space. It's possible NT brains work with linear time, Chronos and Autistics work with Kairos - Moments. This could be part of monotropism. Desiring to show up for someone is an act of respectfulness.

9. I often process "out loud". It's easier to make sense of external sound than attempt to separate all the incoming signals in my head and stop the music (forever playing, it's never stopped). Again, our Salience Network is just Soaking It All In, Love.

10. This could be an Au-NT issue. But also, part of the everything-all-at-once brain. Monotropistic Gamma waves + too much all at once non-filtering.

11/12/13. Again, when the world is often overwhelming there is a need to create an order for the chaos. It doesn't mean we win.

14 I've yet to see a minimalist house with a decent library. But OK...

Autistic-thinking appears to be about understanding the structure or system. We might also see details on the structure. But if there are bits that don't pertain to it, it might not makes sense for them to be part of the larger whole and it might just be confusing.You could think of Society / social languages in terms of theatrics. We might just be able to see what's happening behind the curtain and simply be inclined to find it more fascinating, but NTs want to watch the theatre in production, they want to get wrapped up in the phantasy. 

The question really comes down to fundamental principles. When is it OK to be ruthless or cruel or manipulate. I quite like The Doctors motto: Never cruel, never cowardly, never giving up, never giving in. Recognising boundaries or consequences or just the laws of physics is not a giving up, but being respectful of human limitation. Affording dignity is not giving in - but it can appear like it when in a conflict with someone. It's OK to let someone have their moment or win a little even if they're wrong. If they don't have the understanding I have and it's crushing them, it can be pointless to continue - especially if they're 5. However, asserting a rule (for those under you) or boundaries (for those who can potentially ruin you) is appropriate and can sometimes help an other who needs a time out. Saying no and protecting one thing at the expense of another, when done with respectfulness in mind, is not cruel. 

I quite like just asking does it help or hurt? Does it connect or divide. Humans need to connect. The world we live in is in a constant state of rebalance.

Thank you. Your post is a tremendous comfort to me.

I think we have different experiences possibly and I mask heavily. It's automatic for me to ask others how they are in return when often actually I don't care and I'm just being polite. In the workplace I have to remind myself often to say good morning to people. I go to work to work whereas I've noticed it's more a social element for some. In my assessment it was noted I wasn't very reciprocal in some instances but I don't know why I would start asking the assessor about themselves as that wasn't the purpose of the meeting. In more unstructured social situations Ive learned that i find it easier to just keep asking people about themselves because I either don't feel comfortable talking about myself,  don't know how much to say or wonder if they even are interested at all or just being polite. On here I say stuff I've never talked to anyone about.

It's not troubling to ask for support on here. People wouldn't respond if they didn't want to help. And somethings you say might be read by another person and give them help. 

Steven said:

as if I were the centre of our universe

I think the very fact you are aware of this means you actually are not. I know plenty of people who think the world revolves around them and they aren't even aware of it.  I've read several times that autistic people communicate often by sharing experiences.  This may come across to others as self absorbed but what we are doing is finding similarity and common ground as connection.

I cannot stand the self-involvement/self-absorption that seems to be a part of autism. Yes, it's natural for me to have lots of questions about autism & about my behaviours but I resent myself for constantly troubling others here for advice and insight, as if I were the centre of our universe. And most posts of mine feature examples of something or other from my own limited life-experiences, as if these were important or significant or universal, not trivial or irrelevant. And I cannot stand it if when someone asks 'How are you, Simon?', it rarely occurs to me to ask how *they* are; not because I don't care about them or because I'm bored or distracted but because it simply doesn't occur to me to respond in kind. It just makes me feel so rude, in retrospect, and feel for them. I am inept at the art of communication...

As someone who utterly dreads being the centre of attention, I find myself the centre of my attention too often; this isn't vanity - it's just a horribly narrow focus.

All this, and more, is why I find it so hard to list 'positives of ASD', as much as I really want autists to be positive about themselves - I just can't, and won't, lie about my own experience.

I've put numbers in just for you!

Stimming is something I've never been able to relate to but Ive noticed I like repeatedly playing with my hair bobble in a particular way. Or repeatedly moulding blu tac or chewing gum nto a cube then squashing it. I also like singing. These probably seem quite typical of anyone really.

It's yet another version of that: 

Be aware of all implications and possible outcomes of own actions sometimes, and be preoccupied so much that you push it to the back of your head and it stops influencing you on a conscious level during that time

Every time I think that my behaviour differs from the standard criteria, later on I realise that, in fact, it doesn't differ. Take stimming, for example: I was quite convinced that I don't stim and yet when I went for an interview session with some experts on autism, I panicked because I'd left my late mother's rosary bracelet at home...a bracelet I was used to repeatedly handling whenever I felt anxious. So instead I gripped and ungripped the table where I sat while being interviewed; I was in some discomfort afterwards because of this 'stimming'.

I liked the list more with numbers in front, the way some members modified it, it's easier to refer to it later.

Yes: 1,3, 4, 6,7 (It's cats way), 9, 11, 12, 13 and 14 (not just a house but anything and everything, I have no need for more than just bare essentials), 15 and 18 (it's the same thing, I call it, I need a reason), 23.

50/50: everything else

Hi, great idea this - I'm the same as you in a lot of what you say especially people pleasing and especially hyper focus.

Memory is something I think about a lot. My long term is amazing I can remember so much like it was yesterday but then short term is like it gets deleted or something lol.

NAS83898,

I have seen how thoughtful you are of others feelings and how you are trying your best.  I'm glad that you feel safe here as your original post made me feel quite sad and I wanted to make it all better.  I see that you are contributing more and am hoping that this community is giving you the comfort you were lacking in the beginning.

Anonymity rules. Here I feel safe in my openness knowing it can't result in some practical negative feedback.  

out_of_step,

Autistic or not.  I find comfort in feeling sameness and commonality with you and others on here.  I like learning about differences too because it gives me a depth of understanding of human behaviour and why we do/act certain ways.  I am so grateful for this forum and for the honesty in it.  I'm learning more and more every time I'm on here.

I feel some people are very closed which confuses me.  I feel we are all pretty open here and that feels like home to me.

1. Feel less need to follow social conventions but then am a heavy people pleaser. I have no need 
2. Feel I have my own sense of identity but get easily swept along by others. Only after critical analysis
3. Not sure how I feel a lot of the time but feel very strongly when I do know. Feel strongly other people's emotions or completely miss them. Empathy and appropriate reaction evade me
4. Feel like I can't read people in the moment but then pick up on micro expressions or feelings other people don't seem to notice. Broadcasting and receiving signals is jumbled or not at all
5. Love being on my own but have a strong need for people interaction which is often a bit difficult and tiring. I feel this too but adopted distancing myself owing many negative outcomes
6. Naturally introverted but love the energy when with the right people. Yes, yes, yes
7. Get mixed up with left or right but have a good sense of direction  Not a problem for me
8. A strong need to be on time but always running late. I am strong on punctuality and expect it in others
9. Approachable as an ear for problems but seldom have my own listened to. I often don't feel heard in real life but not here. I agree which is why I'm more a listener
10. Communicate clearly in my job but can't explain problems to health professionals very well. I can express myself only on stuff I know. 
11. Am a natural organiser but actually not very organised. I love organising but quickly get bored with it.
12. A strong need for a tidy house but it's always a mess (to me). Not Applicable
13. An effort to have less stuff but feel it's always cluttered. Clutter is my middle name. I'm a DIYer. I see an item as a potential materiel for another use.
14. A desire for a minimalist house but think they're boring. Not applicable
15. Often really want to get going a lot of the time but don't know how. I ned to be inspired in some way
16. Don't like loud noises but love loud music. Me three!
17. Can get up early of my own accord but not when my alarm goes off. I have an internal clock that works fine
18. Hyper focus or inertia. Yes!
19. Like to be spontaneous but don't like a change to a plan and need to know ahead what's happening. No spontaneity but yes to likely outcome 
20. Find sameness boring but don't like change. I'm the opposite
21. Need routine to function but have difficulty forming them unless it's imposed. I perform when needed
22. Good long term memory but poor short term memory. Unless it's important to me, yes. Yes again
23. Can see both sides of the discussion so have conflicting opinions. rarely

I don't know because everyone is different. When I first started reading about autism I went on tania Marshall's  website and that had a huge list of seemingly contradicting traits. I don't know how much of it is my personality or personal preference mixed in with autism.

out_of_step,

I've always been called "weird" but I've never felt like I was so different.  I just felt that I didn't want to follow the "pack" and would always make friends with the bullied kids because I felt awful for them.  I felt I wanted to defend picked on people.  I've always felt anger towards bullies.  

I think it's pretty telling that you are diagnosed as Autistic and I have so many things in common with you.  I wonder what the same psychiatrists reaction would be if I were to show him you/our list?