I want to find a girlfriend but I don't know how

A wise man by the name of Harry Lagan who sometimes filled in for my dad when it came to teaching me some wisdom about life, one told me this in his inimitable second hand dealer style (possibly whilst climbing into the transit to go and vist the peopel wh responded to his items wanted ad). "Women are like washing machines. If you want one, place a lonely hearts ad, and then go and choose one". 

Behind that wonderfully cynical approach includes a truth that came to me when I did internet dating.

I viewed 400 womens profiles, but only found 16 candidates that I felt worth writing to. Of those 3 wrote back, one to criticise the way I'd written my profile (As it turns out the concept of "truth" isn't as attactractive in the world outside my head as I think it should be) Fortunately one of them didn't mess about too much, we went for a date, which so far has persisted for 19 years. 

1 in 400 odds put my problem in perspective for me. Internet dating provides a filter of sorts. 

Just to give you an update I have been emailing the one match I had and we're going to set up a date.

Also I have booked on for another speeddating event on 25th July and now I have some confidence I hope to get a few more matches.  I will update you after the next speeddating event.

Well I must congratulate you on doing this and express my admiration. It sounds like you manage to make progress with a number of encounters without any loss of confidence so keep it up.

Just thought I'd give you an update on dating shenanigans.

Word to the wise.  Never wear a blazer and cotton shirt in a bar that doesn’t have air conditioning or fans!

And next time I am taking someone with me.  I was filled with self doubt/self loathing before it started so I had a beer – not a good idea when your liver processes alcohol one drop an hour. 

But once it got started I was ok.  There were 14 ladies.  And I think the same amount of men.  I wasn’t the token Asian person which gave me some reassurance.  I was guy no 6 and guy no 7 got absolutely trollied and went past his 4 minute allocation with each date.  (I even had a quick word with him in the toilets and he tried to tell me he was drunk like it had passed everyone by but I did kindly say it hadn’t passed ANYONE by; on the plus side it probably made me look good!)

There were some nice women there.  Although there was one Asian lawyer who was so driven and seemed like all she was interested in was having a guy who was at the same level of earning capacity as her, if not better.   I might have offended her by criticising her meditation practice (I do lots of yoga and meditate 6 days out of 7).  But I don’t really go for Asian women so hey ho.

I got the impression though most of the women were being friendly rather than actually liked me.  But I am a terrible at separating when women are being friendly and when women are being flirtatious.

I've got one match!  I have emailed her last night and hopefully she will email me back but I think I am going to try going again and not have any alcohol and see how it goes.  Practice makes progress

Good luck with the speed dating tonight!

I think you're incredibly brave!

I hope it goes well.

I think my levels of eye contact are pretty good.  Although you are right when nerves strike its harder for me to keep my eyes on people.  Also I have a habit of looking at peoples’ mouth instead of their eyes when they talk.   But I have got to the point where I can look at people but I am not sure if I am concentrating on their eyes.  Maybe that’s the next step?  I have this Mnemonic for courtship. E.S.P.P.T.T.

Eye Contact (preferably she looks away and then looks at you again)

Smile (obvious, see if they smile back)

Preening (see if they are doing things like licking their lips, playing with their hair, smoothing down their clothes)

Positioning (let them get a good look at you, making sure you’re in full view)

Talk (clichés like “Haven’t I seen you somewhere before?” )

Touch (see if they try to touch you ‘accidentally’ and you have to welcome it by smiling and touching them back)

Yes you are right NTs also have difficulty with initiating contact too, which is some comfort.  That’s why I want to learn the ins and outs of body language.  So I won’t be shot down so quickly and to give me an advantage (and to make up for my defects).  I too am good with acquaintances but I don’t think I have any deep relationships/friendships.  I find it hard to talk about that stuff, also self preservation to not talk about anything too personal or stuff that makes me look vulnerable.

What do you mean by ‘the old way of doing things’?  Do you mean going in a bar?  Or do you think internet dating is the way to go for Aspies?

LOL.  I have got this mug my friends bought me that says “the office B***h”, it was meant to be ironic because I am so friendly and non-threatening.  I think the word that keeps coming up when people describe me is ‘lovely’ but I am not sure what they mean by that.  Maybe I should play on that and use it to my advantage?  And I find that women want to mother me too.  Do you find that too? 

Aikido is probably not the way to go for meeting women but I thought it might be good for confidence within myself.  I am terrified with conflict (like all Aspies) but I thought this might equip me to be better at it.  And it helped with my confidence.  Also it will make me seem more interesting than someone who reads popular science books and goes on the NASA website daily!.

I decided to bite the bullet and go speeddating tonight.  Its £10 a ticket so I thought why not?  And I think the more I do it the better I will be at it.  Maybe if I do it a few times I can draw a conclusion to see if its really for me or not.

The eye contact element is crucial in making close connections, including the romantic sort. NTs look for prolonged eye to eye contact for reassurance that there are good vibes to a potential relationship (so I'm told anyway - I really haven't a clue - as I cannot do it properly).

You can fake eye contact for low intensity social interchange, you seem to need to be doing it right for forming relationships. How to explain that I do not know.

Also the old ways of doing things might actually work - but that may prove an error if things break down later. I've known people who aren't good at dating relying on  things like - no kissing until the third date. That creates the impression of a gentleman wooing a lady - not sure how well it works.

What I do know is that NTs seem bad at making the first move. I'm not at all shy and can talk to anyone - atleast for about 60 seconds before it dawns on them I'm also a nerd. That meant I could make introductions for others - you know what I mean - the "my friend fancies you" chat up lines. I couldn't help myself. But I could be useful to "friends" who allowed me to "hang out with them" if I worked my passage.

Being "safe" is something people with aspergers can probably do well. In social situations the 'straight man' - good old reliable Clark Kent - is probably a good ploy. I would avoid trying to be Mr Spock or Data though - doesn't go down well with NTs.

Does martial arts bring you in contact with the opposite sex? If it does persist at it. If it doesn't there's a danger it wont provide interesting enough social chat.

I think you're right about the alcohol. I'm not a very good drinker and when I do drink it lowers my inhibitions but I cant pick up social cue's so well (I've been reading books about body language). And it's making le put on weight too. So perhaps alcohol its not the best solution.

I don't know how much eye contact is too much though. I am getting better.  I wish I could organise a group therapy thing Birmingham where people with AS could practice social skills and become better with eye contact and conversational styles.

I would like to learn a martial art like Aikido. Would that help.  Also the body confidence it would give me would be immense. I did try it about 6 years ago for about 5 classes and it made me feel tough (silly) I know. Maybe that's the way to go? I can explain to the tutor that I have AS and they might need to be a bit patient with me.

I do go to therapy and that has helped me (I have an amazing therapist who I don't think I can live without) but I look at NTs and think "I'm still so far behind them". One or my friend said to me I make my AS a bigger deal than I do and most people can't see it.

But I've never had a girlfriend though. I am not really good at the bar scene.  I mean I am functional, I can get by and not make a nuisance of myself and say hello to people but approaching random people sounds sooooo scary. 

I've always thought that my mind was my only asset.  If I could figure it out in my mind it would all be okay.  If I could just learn enough about something it would be ok. 

quote "Should I work on my self esteem first and then the rest will follow?"

No, self esteem is like practicing loving a teddy bear, you are thinking too much,, take some of longmans tips, go out with an anchor(friend) to a place that you really like and enjoy yourself for you and your friend first off all, have a drink or two(if you wish), smile, relax and let cupid and the universe do the rest ! Go for a meal, go watch a comedy play and go to the nearby local pub and find people in there who have also watched the comedy and get chatting naturally.

Try e-harmony and talk over the phone and facebook and meet up 3 months later in a cafe for coffee.

Ask your friends / family to help, find that special person, get the word around.

Failing all that there is always a Thai bride.

I would advise against alcohol as a solution, because it doesn't really overcome the social constraints imposed by having aspergers, and may not make much difference. That it works for NTs is primarily because alcohol lowers inhibitions, so makes getting intimate easier.  With aspergers poor eye contact, sensory issues, and following the thread of conversation are not going to improve with alcohol.

Besides which, it appears a lot of people on the spectrum end up as alcoholics. Simply because you have to drink more and more even to feel like your inhibitions are going. It may actually be advantageous to remain sober (drink low or non-alcoholic beverages) and socialise with people who are not too drunk that you make false friends of them.

The other thing is self-confidence and self esteem. These are going to get worse the more refusals, bad reactions, empty encounters and false trails you get.

You need to have a strategy to offset the knocks that come from trying to make headway with relationships. So you need to be good at a sport or a recreational activity or just a special interest that gives you good vibes, so you can trade on less rewarding returns from trying to make social connections. That way you can avoid getting too down.

The problem with interests is they often don't trade well in the social scene. Sadly I was too clumsy to make headway in sports, and sport seems to be a good one for making friends anyway. I had too many non-shareable pursuits.

Can you broaden your special interests? This is important as it will make you more flexible in social situations.  Try to develop interests that have a trade-off between not being quite in your comfort zone but more likely to win friends (or be useable in the workplace). What could you put up with that's less than ideal as an interest but gets you out more (or improves your work prospects)?

This broadens what you can talk about socially. It also broadens you ability to cope with social situations you would otherwise be uncomfortable with. I know some people argue you shouldn't have to with AS, but to get on on the world you have to develop a broader range of compromise.

Also take comfort that you are not alone - in the sense this isnt just an asperger problem. There are NTs with acute shyness, or who lack confidence for other reasons. It is amazing how many people (most of whom are probably NTs) cannot initiate a conversation with someone else. They will rely on very mixed success with eye contact, or chat up lines, the social cigarette/lighting up (I never smoked but for a long time carried a lighter or a book of matches as a social bridge), as well as coded clothing - whatever gets you identified with the people you want to meet (curious how many people with AS try to dress in keeping with goths).

The other thing is going around with someone who is successful. That's a mixed experience, as your if friend "gets off" a lot and you don't, that's not going to help self esteem. But successful people socially are often quite lonely, and might accept going around with an "anchor man", someone to hang out with when nothing is doing, but who isn't "competition". That way you get to mix more and meet more people, and pick up social skills. That could also be a "girl friend" who isn't interested in you but likes having a non-involved male with her.

What is always worse is starting on your own. It is so easy to end up sitting alone, with that inevitable part AS part low self esteem look of "don't come near me unless you're desperate" that I went about with for years.

Maybe I am too afraid of being rejected?

I am too cerebral for my own good.  I think my instincts are crap so I refuse to use them.  I always thought I could think my way out a problem.

So do you think I should go speeddating again on Tuesday? (The price has been cut to £10 only) and maybe its a lack of confidence that's affecting my performance more than anything? Like for instance I gave one of my housemates girlfriend a hug because she was feeling so terrible this morning (I instantly regretted it but she responded by hugging me back.)

Should I work on my self esteem first and then the rest will follow?

Cary, it is all just about being around people you feel comfortable with. I remember asking a female member of my family, "how do you get a boyfriend so easily".. She laughed and said" like everyone else, I just drink lots of alcohol, act stupid and throw myself at someone I like". So what if you get it wrong or miss the target, you will at some point connect and the alcohol will be your braveheart fuel and fools memory loss  solution if needed.

So, I think she is saying forget your mind in the affairs of the heart, if they like you, they like you, no amount of thinking will change that.

Scorpio is right.  There were rumours that he was Bisexual.  I think that was partly due to the fact he had a bromance with Randolph Scott.  And he didn’t want to reveal too much about his private life because he wanted to preserve the persona of Cary Grant not his real self (Archibald Leach) who was a working class boy who prefers bangers and mash to Michelin starred cuisine.

But I am glad you said that Aspies prefer female company because I have several female friends and I was thinking ‘What’s wrong with me? Why don’t I have more male friends?”

I am just terrible with social rules and the ins and outs of dating.  Its like I am a decade behind all my peers when it comes to dating because of my Aspergers and my background.  I feel totally at a loss, I think I must make good friend material rather than boyfriend material.  I have made the mistake of confusing women being friendly with me and women being attracted to me.  (I still find it hard to believe that someone would find me attractive at all.) 

So do you think Speeddating is a bad way to go because a relationship that takes time would be better than one that takes 3 minutes?

autismtwo said:

Was not Cary Grant gay ?

Possibly bi-sexual, I believe.

Was not Cary Grant gay ?

Can someone not introduce you to suitable females.

An aspie males feels more comfortable about females, join a book club at the library. Join a horse riding club or an art class were the female to male ratio is 80:20. Not your local chess or football club..

I don't see aspergers as a barrier to meeting the opposite sex only which environment you choose to meet them in.

Personally,  I enjoy the cognitive engagement with females more than intimacy. A slow building relationship with a high cognitive side, a meeting of minds.