Suicidal Thoughts and Adult Aspergers

1986 said:

what would they say is the reason for it not existing

I've heard scepticism from a few psychiatrists, including one I saw as a four or five times as a patient. Interestingly he was one who I'd describe as open and relatively honest and who could actually see how mental health issues are caused by problems with employers, housing, services and so on. So not in the totally offensive, patronising and pernicious category, but still a bit arrogant and incompetent, as is the occupational hazard. (I did say somewhere that I don't label people... oops.)

He was obviously mostly concerned with people at imminent risk of suicide, and wrote on one letter that I'd 'somehow acquired the fashionable diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome'. I'd said how I'd been sceptical of that diagnosis myself until realising it applied to my own life. Having met several people with the diagnosis but nothing else in common, I'd concluded that it was merely a way of labelling people as 'odd'. He agreed that was why he didn't think AS or HFA were useful or meaningful categories. So I think people who are quite egalitarian can be reluctant to accept the ideas of neurodiversity and innate social disabilities, as they deal a lot of times with problems that are not innate but treated as if they are.

Other psychiatrists see autism as some kind of neurological problem associated with learning disability, so are reluctant to really expand autism to the vast majority of people with what are dismissively called 'autistic traits'. If it's not associated with something diagnosable, it's not real; if it is then it's a mental health condition or personality disorder (misdiagnosis with PDs is a huge problem). If they aren't themselves specialists in autism, then having autism as an underlying factor in mental health problems really removes patients from psychiatric expertise, and perhaps questions it.

1986 said:

I must admit I have times where I'm currently asking myself am I chatting *** about the potential of having something called aspergers, am I looking for a reason to understand my behaviour and is it not just part of my genetic makeup....

I went through similar self-doubt during the process myself. It's true a diagnosis does not relieve one of responsibility, but it may help one be more accepting of past failures.

Here are a couple of threads about genetics:

• https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/12481/if-you-want-to-evolve-ask-someone-autistic
• https://community.autism.org.uk/f/miscellaneous-and-chat/11765/is-aspergers-the-next-evolutionary-step-for-humans

By the way, the NHS link that NAS36609 posted summarises some important research.

Ah I see, it always piques my interest when I see the term service users as it's nearly always the charity field. I work in substance misuse. 

Hi 1986. Autism support worker. 

That's interesting. So what would they say is the reason for it not existing. I must admit I have times where I'm currently asking myself am I chatting *** about the potential of having something called aspergers, am I looking for a reason to understand my behaviour and is it not just part of my genetic makeup....

You say service users.. What line of work are you in Tom? (If you don't mind me asking).

Oh and everything you said resonates with me. 

Yes, this will pass. That usually sounds a bit ridiculous when you're going through it, but it will. We think in extremes, so when we're not too good or things aren't going quite as we like them too, we go to the extremes in our feelings. Hope you feel better soon. Try and make sure you're drinking to compensate for lost fluids.

At this very moment I am slightly suicidal.

I've been ill with diarrhea for the past three hours.  I've been to toilet and back to bed several times.  It's supposed to be warm but I'm shivering on my bed and cannot sleep.

Is it worth going on ?

Sigh... so some don’t believe in autism....

"Do you believe?" he cried.

Tink sat up in bed almost briskly to listen to her fate.

She fancied she heard answers in the affirmative, and then again she wasn't sure.

"What do you think?" she asked Peter.

"If you believe," he shouted to them, "clap your hands; don't let Tink die."

Many clapped.

Some didn't.

A few beasts hissed.

The clapping stopped suddenly; as if countless mothers had rushed to their nurseries to see what on earth was happening; but already Tink was saved. First her voice grew strong, then she popped out of bed, then she was flashing through the room more merry and impudent than ever. She never thought of thanking those who believed, but she would have like to get at the ones who had hissed.”

J.M Barrie _ Peter Pan

so much work needs to be done. If belief still has to come 

Yes.

I've met psychiatrists who don't believe in autism. and others who think the solution is group psychodynamic therapy. Psychiatrists largely don't understand, and don't want to, yet they hold most of the power. A key intervention would be autistic-led training for psychiatrists, which probably means involving the Royal College. I'd hope that petition now at nearly 32 000 will help too.

I've been suicidal in the past, but not for many years. The risk is usually quoted as nine times that in the general population.

This may be of interest...

Rates of suicide “worrying” among people with autism, say experts

I've made a few attempts in the last dozen or so years.  Two were serious.  I was lucky to pull through.  All of this was before my diagnosis 3 years ago.  Since then, I've had lots of thoughts, and have even - usually when drunk - thought how good it would be not to wake up.  But I haven't acted.  I have this thing in my head: You can't know whether life can get better unless you give it the chance to.  It keeps me reasonably grounded.  That and having an animal in my life that I feel a responsibility for.  Even the smallest reason to keep going is still a reason.

People have always baffled me, but it seems to have gotten worse in the last year or so.  I have no real idea what anyone thinks of me, but tend towards the idea that no one likes me very much.  One thing I learned from CBT is to analyse a situation where I think that someone is pissed off with me, and see what evidence there is for it.  Maybe they're just having a really bad day and it's nothing to do with me at all.  I still tend to blame myself, though, ultimately.  A couple of people at work behave a bit oddly around me.  One of them, though - so I understand - isn't especially liked by many of the others.  She's quite young, very blunt, too free with her language in front of service users, etc.  She's also lazy.  But, for some reason, she can get on with the others and is always very chatty with them.  She makes sneering remarks to me.  Yesterday, when I walked into a room with only her in it, she got straight up and walked out.  Next thing, she's chatting freely with the others.  It shouldn't bug me - she's a rude, ignorant slob - but it does.  I keep asking myself What have I done?  As if it matters.

I'm just so glad I can be alone during all the times outside of work.

So, does this mean that one of the key issues is not only cut funding to mental health services but also lack of accessible services (despite much research evidence and awareness of comorbid conditions associated with ASC) for those on the spectrum? 

Also YES!!

Sorry 86 it was me, i am in a deep battle with various arms of the state and this is the driving factor for me.

I dont want to die, i want to live more than anything.

I want to contribute, i want to participate,

i want to learn and to educate.

But as we all know increasingly in the current political climate this isnt possible, every turn you make to recieve support is slammed shut in your face so i frequently cite this statistic to shock them into reality, as NAS say  'til everyone understands' but then again the NHS say 'nothing about us without us' and 'parity of esteem'.

I have to be honest, the main issue i have is knowing that i am 'other' to them, i am not an equal, i am not worthy of support, i am not a viable human being.

I then reflect on how many hundreds of thousands have also been treated in the same way but have unfortunately not had the support to resist the 'darkness' and ultimately succumbed to it and an absolute resolve rises to expose this, without a doubt it is genocide and i will welcome the arrival of the UN rapporteur to investigate crimes against the disabled committed by an ideological agenda masked by 'austerity'.

For our cohort the driving issue behind these scary statistics is esteem, at any moment we are a product of our environment, when this environment is continually adversarial, Kafkaesque and ambivalent to our needs the results can only be detrimental, catastrophically to ourselves and/or financially to the state.

A NAO report for councils regarding provision of support services to adults with HFA/Aspergers recommends that councils get above 4% provision of services as quick as possible because at that point the expenditure in provision starts to become beneficial to the economy; Employment rises, creating new taxpayers.

 Again this is where a problem arises for me; Cognitive Dissonance. 

My journey to diagnosis has been very very long, Norman Lamb today expressed his outrage at some people having to wait 800+ days for diagnosis, mine took 13 YEARS (i was unofficially diagnosed in 2001, NEEDED Official diagnosis in 05 due to 'mate hate' crime, stabbed, robbed etc . It has cost me everything, lost a very good career, lost all family and support network connections.

See i've had to survive in the underbelly of society, homelessness (7 years) etc purely due to my ASD, i have observed first hand how the state treats the voiceless, they are written off, we are the same.

When you start fighting for diagnosis, various organisations tell you there is this and that support available but when it comes to the crunch there isn't, even the organisations claiming to be representing us fail us, often in the most "facedesk" manner (ask NAS about their positive discrimination policy to employ folks with ASD and incorporate them into their supply chain, clue: they don't).

And there is the cognitive dissonance; We are told one thing but the opposite is true.

I truly believe now the only way for us to be heard is to collectivize, become a voting block, 

NAS cannot be political, they are forbidden, this in effect neutralises these bodies from truly representing us.

We are revenue generators for the 'Autism' Industry.

NAS36609 said:

Without going into details, the biggest triggering factors for me in wanting to end my life have always been the way I have been abused by other people and my low self-confidence. Also, I find it impossible to get any help when I’m depressed because the ‘professionals’ don’t understand me due to my autism, which isn’t great.

YES!!

1986 said:

Read something on here the other day where some guy talked about the suicide rate in adult males in the Autistic community

It’s not just males. I’m female and I regularly have suicidal thoughts, plus I have attempted to end my life more than once. In fact, in this study they found that autistic females were more at risk of suicide than males, which is contrary to the general population (where the suicide rate is higher in males):

https://www.nhs.uk/news/neurology/people-with-autism-are-dying-younger-warns-study/

Without going into details, the biggest triggering factors for me in wanting to end my life have always been the way I have been abused by other people and my low self-confidence. Also, I find it impossible to get any help when I’m depressed because the ‘professionals’ don’t understand me due to my autism, which isn’t great. I guess there is also the issue of unfortunately remembering painful incidents in minute detail, which is due to my autism, but if I hadn’t been abused in the first place then this wouldn’t be an issue...

Hi 1986

1986 said:

I always thought I was approachable but I've always known that other peoples perception doesn't match what I think. It's a bit of a difficult pill to swallow to know that someone thinks they've pissed me off when I think something completely different. Least now I understand why people have a different perception to me. (Hope all this makes sense, I'm venting a little).

I identify with this as I am always confused about how I am perceived by others and conversely don't always understand what I do wrong.

A few months ago, for example someone told my partner that I seemed really grumpy - however I was just tired after a long week at work.  I basically, wasn't masking effectively as I was tired. My husband is in his third month of being at hospital and last night he was cross that I did not go and visit him in hospital (I had hit burnout) so had a whole evening of cross text messages and missed calls up until midnight - what I needed was him to understand that I was exhausted, and the emotional challenges of him being in hospital I need time to process. As his partner I am expected to visit every day but no one has asked if I am ok, if I am coping alright, as I always "get on with it".

Masking for me is a big thing in terms of getting on with other people at work and at home.  Performing the role that I am expected to perform and to fit it.  This then creates a mismatch with how I present myself and how I actually feel. It causes the dual problem then that I feel that people don't understand me and my needs  - but in actual fact I am not showing people ME - so why would they know?  Also, when the real me is exposed (tiredness, sadness, burnout) people get confused because I have not presented myself to them before in that form.

My mindset with people is that to expect nothing and then you are never disappointed and in relation to your thread topic that means that on the outside I seem like I live a high functioning existence - i.e. I work full time in a busy and challenging job, I have a partner, a child etc but on the inside there are times that I feel very isolated, at a loss as I seem to always expected to cope, have all the answers etc, sometimes I don't and sometimes I find it very difficult to "unslump myself".  Maybe people thing that I don't want or need help, or don't think that I want it, or are not interested, or don't know HOW to help. 

They seem to forget that I am a human, just like them...