Suicidal Thoughts and Adult Aspergers

Read something on here the other day where some guy talked about the suicide rate in adult males in the Autistic community, not sure how true it were but it now has me thinking, what are your experiences, do you have suicidal thoughts? 

My introduction thread explains my background for anyone interested

https://community.autism.org.uk/f/introduce-yourself/12880/aspergers-suggestion-by-therapist

Growing up I was a wrist cutter, I always have had suicidal tendencies. Obviously I've just put this down to being a depressive at times but in all honesty I've not even been depressed at times of doing it/thinking it. I now wonder if this links in some way, maybe frustration of not feeling 'right' to some sense. 

This is all new to me and just about everything in my life in the past is now being questioned/looked at in a different light, very confusing. 

I won't deny that I am having waves and fleeting thoughts about suicide, definitely not of the action type just yet but the thoughts are there. My therapist since the first session said I don't show emotion on my face unless it's an extreme emotion such as anger/happy etc, I got a bit upset this morning because the mother in law came round saturday and apparently she hopes she didn't piss me off as I seemed tense or pissed off, I actually really enjoyed them visiting so it came as a surprise to me today and I've related it to the flat effect with showing emotions on my face. It makes me wonder if this is what people think quite often, at work I always thought I was approachable but I've always known that other peoples perception doesn't match what I think. It's a bit of a difficult pill to swallow to know that someone thinks they've pissed me off when I think something completely different. Least now I understand why people have a different perception to me. (Hope all this makes sense, I'm venting a little).

  • Just this second got a text apologising for what I overheard on the phone so the other half has obviously said something. Doesn't really apologise for her first thoughts being negative of me, like I've done something wrong. Anyway's I'm being pathetic and I know I am. 

  • I had a really rough day yesterday that seems to have followed onto today. I think I'm struggling because whilst I score high on all these "aspie tests" laid out in front of me I don't seem to fully believe it. I know it's unique to each individual  but so much of what I read doesn't apply to me, but then when I think it doesn't apply to me I wonder if it doesn't apply to me because I've convinced myself of stuff and I've overcome problems etc. I like to think I'm really social but deep down I struggle, I do over analyse every social situation, I'm soo scared of upsetting people or people not liking me. I have always put it down to over thinking and low self esteem which it could very well be. I plan where to sit when going out for a few drinks with mates as that seat can change my social interaction, I've known I do it but not really thought about it as it's done along with a load of other quick fleeting thoughts so I haven't given it much attention. I'm socially weak and I'm definitely not an alpha male which has always been something I don't like. 

    I was alone all day yesterday and loneliness when overthinking isn't for me, I know many Aspies apparently love to be alone but I don't, I'd rather be alone in a room full of people then left alone completely with just me and my thoughts. 

    I pathetically cried this morning all because the other halves sister made an assumption about me over the phone that I heard, her family are down from scotland and a couple of the lads mentioned to her they'd like to play golf instead of staying with the family today for lunch, I said I'd be happy to go with them (not take them, go with them) she told her sister and I heard the hole conversation... "I'm not pandering to what 1986 wants to do" the other half just said it was her cousin not me but it was hardly convincing, I wouldn't mind it's absolutely nothing to do with me. I don't know whether it's the questioning everything in my life or what but it really upest me this morning, I don't want her thinking I'm at fault or whatever, in my mind I imagine her telling other people "he did this, he wants this etc etc" and even though it's not true it helps people form an untrue opinion. 

    Christ I feel low this weekend. It's times like these I wish I hadn't given up alcohol (35 days and counting), socialising all day with her close knit family is going to really be hard for me without alcohol as a comfort aid, I feel so alone when I'm with them and they are all actually really nice but I just feel like a massive outcast. I have my own mates but they're mates of a long time, all new friends I seem to get through work and what have you when in groups I always feel like an outcast, I'm great on a one on one level if it's someone I get on with so don't have to make small talk, in fact I'm even questioning that now. 

    Anyway's vent over, I needed to get it off my chest as I don't feel I have anyone truly to talk to as openly. The internet has always been a place where I reveal everything about myself. 

  • I hope you find some solace here. However that can also produce the effect that you feel listened to and understood here and that highlights even more greatly the offline reality 

  • i hope so i am very isolated i would love to have friends and be included in activities but i would most likely avoid them for the anxiety and stress they caused catch 22 as always

  • Giddy

    I hope that you have the support you need and are not trying to navigate your pain and existence in isolation.

    This thread has certainly served to highlight the darker side of being on the spectrum - such as isolation, anxiety and depressive slumps.

    I am going through a real low at the moment and this thread serves to help me feel less isolated, but on the flip side realises the great sadness that as a community there are members here that hurt so and with such little support and understanding in their offline existences.

  • im not sure what a diagnosis of autism will do for me other than give me a reason for my difference to NTs but it may help with how others treat me one can only hope

  • Sorry to hear that. I think self-injury and depression are very common with autistic people. Maybe the assessment and consequent understanding will help.

  • im in my 50's awaiting my ASD assessment and have suffered with severe depression for 40 odd years I regularly cut my arms they' are just a blur of scars so much so i can hardly feel the scalpel i use due to nerve damage but i persist because i feel the need to punish myself to feel the pain see the blood and the constant reminder of the scars prove my punishment i have taken 2 overdoses both which proved unsuccessful and have been sectioned 3 times... the root cause .... horrific sexual abuse i suffered as a child that has hounded me all my life and will probably be the end of me one day and the help from mental health ?? pretty much non existent oh i don't blame my care workers or crisis team they do the best they can it's the bloated nhs managers creaming off the money that's eventually going to be the death of Nye Bevans dream of a free health service if you break a leg suffer a heart attack have kidney disease you are treated but disorders of the mind are still thought as non treatable by and large and until that perception changes nothing else will...

    my apologies to anyone who i may have upset with my rather to the bone admission but anonimity has a certain liberating affect

  • Perhaps sometimes the wish is not so much to die as to escape from a life or situation which seems intolerable, with no other obvious way out.

    I've had suicidal thoughts in the past, and once got as far as planning my "exit" in detail and writing a suicide note. But on the day, I couldn't go through with it because there were some people hanging around in my chosen location, and I didn't want to do it with them watching. At least, that's how I rationalised it at the time. Maybe my heart wasn't really in it. But I'm glad that they were there, I'd thank them if I could.Things did change for the better eventually, and I might never have known. I wouldn't have got married and had children, for a start.

    What's needed is someone or something to hold on to (emotionally, if not physically) while the worst of the impulse passes, and hope returns. But it's more difficult if you're someone who routinely bottles it all in, because then others who might have wanted to help don't even know.

  • what would they say is the reason for it not existing

    I've heard scepticism from a few psychiatrists, including one I saw as a four or five times as a patient. Interestingly he was one who I'd describe as open and relatively honest and who could actually see how mental health issues are caused by problems with employers, housing, services and so on. So not in the totally offensive, patronising and pernicious category, but still a bit arrogant and incompetent, as is the occupational hazard. (I did say somewhere that I don't label people... oops.)

    He was obviously mostly concerned with people at imminent risk of suicide, and wrote on one letter that I'd 'somehow acquired the fashionable diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome'. I'd said how I'd been sceptical of that diagnosis myself until realising it applied to my own life. Having met several people with the diagnosis but nothing else in common, I'd concluded that it was merely a way of labelling people as 'odd'. He agreed that was why he didn't think AS or HFA were useful or meaningful categories. So I think people who are quite egalitarian can be reluctant to accept the ideas of neurodiversity and innate social disabilities, as they deal a lot of times with problems that are not innate but treated as if they are.

    Other psychiatrists see autism as some kind of neurological problem associated with learning disability, so are reluctant to really expand autism to the vast majority of people with what are dismissively called 'autistic traits'. If it's not associated with something diagnosable, it's not real; if it is then it's a mental health condition or personality disorder (misdiagnosis with PDs is a huge problem). If they aren't themselves specialists in autism, then having autism as an underlying factor in mental health problems really removes patients from psychiatric expertise, and perhaps questions it.

    I must admit I have times where I'm currently asking myself am I chatting *** about the potential of having something called aspergers, am I looking for a reason to understand my behaviour and is it not just part of my genetic makeup....

    I went through similar self-doubt during the process myself. It's true a diagnosis does not relieve one of responsibility, but it may help one be more accepting of past failures.

    Here are a couple of threads about genetics:

    By the way, the NHS link that NAS36609 posted summarises some important research.

  • That's interesting. So what would they say is the reason for it not existing. I must admit I have times where I'm currently asking myself am I chatting *** about the potential of having something called aspergers, am I looking for a reason to understand my behaviour and is it not just part of my genetic makeup....

  • At this very moment I am slightly suicidal.

    I've been ill with diarrhea for the past three hours.  I've been to toilet and back to bed several times.  It's supposed to be warm but I'm shivering on my bed and cannot sleep.

    Is it worth going on ?

  • Sigh... so some don’t believe in autism....

    "Do you believe?" he cried.

    Tink sat up in bed almost briskly to listen to her fate.

    She fancied she heard answers in the affirmative, and then again she wasn't sure.

    "What do you think?" she asked Peter.

    "If you believe," he shouted to them, "clap your hands; don't let Tink die."

    Many clapped.

    Some didn't.

    A few beasts hissed.

    The clapping stopped suddenly; as if countless mothers had rushed to their nurseries to see what on earth was happening; but already Tink was saved. First her voice grew strong, then she popped out of bed, then she was flashing through the room more merry and impudent than ever. She never thought of thanking those who believed, but she would have like to get at the ones who had hissed.”

    J.M Barrie _ Peter Pan

    so much work needs to be done. If belief still has to come 

  • Yes.

    I've met psychiatrists who don't believe in autism. and others who think the solution is group psychodynamic therapy. Psychiatrists largely don't understand, and don't want to, yet they hold most of the power. A key intervention would be autistic-led training for psychiatrists, which probably means involving the Royal College. I'd hope that petition now at nearly 32 000 will help too.

    I've been suicidal in the past, but not for many years. The risk is usually quoted as nine times that in the general population.

  • So, does this mean that one of the key issues is not only cut funding to mental health services but also lack of accessible services (despite much research evidence and awareness of comorbid conditions associated with ASC) for those on the spectrum? 

  • Also YES!!

  • Sorry 86 it was me, i am in a deep battle with various arms of the state and this is the driving factor for me.

    I dont want to die, i want to live more than anything.

    I want to contribute, i want to participate,

    i want to learn and to educate.

    But as we all know increasingly in the current political climate this isnt possible, every turn you make to recieve support is slammed shut in your face so i frequently cite this statistic to shock them into reality, as NAS say  'til everyone understands' but then again the NHS say 'nothing about us without us' and 'parity of esteem'.

    I have to be honest, the main issue i have is knowing that i am 'other' to them, i am not an equal, i am not worthy of support, i am not a viable human being.

    I then reflect on how many hundreds of thousands have also been treated in the same way but have unfortunately not had the support to resist the 'darkness' and ultimately succumbed to it and an absolute resolve rises to expose this, without a doubt it is genocide and i will welcome the arrival of the UN rapporteur to investigate crimes against the disabled committed by an ideological agenda masked by 'austerity'.

    For our cohort the driving issue behind these scary statistics is esteem, at any moment we are a product of our environment, when this environment is continually adversarial, Kafkaesque and ambivalent to our needs the results can only be detrimental, catastrophically to ourselves and/or financially to the state.

    A NAO report for councils regarding provision of support services to adults with HFA/Aspergers recommends that councils get above 4% provision of services as quick as possible because at that point the expenditure in provision starts to become beneficial to the economy; Employment rises, creating new taxpayers.

     Again this is where a problem arises for me; Cognitive Dissonance. 

    My journey to diagnosis has been very very long, Norman Lamb today expressed his outrage at some people having to wait 800+ days for diagnosis, mine took 13 YEARS (i was unofficially diagnosed in 2001, NEEDED Official diagnosis in 05 due to 'mate hate' crime, stabbed, robbed etc . It has cost me everything, lost a very good career, lost all family and support network connections.

    See i've had to survive in the underbelly of society, homelessness (7 years) etc purely due to my ASD, i have observed first hand how the state treats the voiceless, they are written off, we are the same.

    When you start fighting for diagnosis, various organisations tell you there is this and that support available but when it comes to the crunch there isn't, even the organisations claiming to be representing us fail us, often in the most "facedesk" manner (ask NAS about their positive discrimination policy to employ folks with ASD and incorporate them into their supply chain, clue: they don't).

    And there is the cognitive dissonance; We are told one thing but the opposite is true.

    I truly believe now the only way for us to be heard is to collectivize, become a voting block, 

    NAS cannot be political, they are forbidden, this in effect neutralises these bodies from truly representing us.

    We are revenue generators for the 'Autism' Industry.

  • Without going into details, the biggest triggering factors for me in wanting to end my life have always been the way I have been abused by other people and my low self-confidence. Also, I find it impossible to get any help when I’m depressed because the ‘professionals’ don’t understand me due to my autism, which isn’t great.

    YES!!

  • Read something on here the other day where some guy talked about the suicide rate in adult males in the Autistic community

    It’s not just males. I’m female and I regularly have suicidal thoughts, plus I have attempted to end my life more than once. In fact, in this study they found that autistic females were more at risk of suicide than males, which is contrary to the general population (where the suicide rate is higher in males):

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/neurology/people-with-autism-are-dying-younger-warns-study/

    Without going into details, the biggest triggering factors for me in wanting to end my life have always been the way I have been abused by other people and my low self-confidence. Also, I find it impossible to get any help when I’m depressed because the ‘professionals’ don’t understand me due to my autism, which isn’t great. I guess there is also the issue of unfortunately remembering painful incidents in minute detail, which is due to my autism, but if I hadn’t been abused in the first place then this wouldn’t be an issue...

  • Hi 1986

    I always thought I was approachable but I've always known that other peoples perception doesn't match what I think. It's a bit of a difficult pill to swallow to know that someone thinks they've pissed me off when I think something completely different. Least now I understand why people have a different perception to me. (Hope all this makes sense, I'm venting a little).

    I identify with this as I am always confused about how I am perceived by others and conversely don't always understand what I do wrong.

    A few months ago, for example someone told my partner that I seemed really grumpy - however I was just tired after a long week at work.  I basically, wasn't masking effectively as I was tired. My husband is in his third month of being at hospital and last night he was cross that I did not go and visit him in hospital (I had hit burnout) so had a whole evening of cross text messages and missed calls up until midnight - what I needed was him to understand that I was exhausted, and the emotional challenges of him being in hospital I need time to process. As his partner I am expected to visit every day but no one has asked if I am ok, if I am coping alright, as I always "get on with it".

    Masking for me is a big thing in terms of getting on with other people at work and at home.  Performing the role that I am expected to perform and to fit it.  This then creates a mismatch with how I present myself and how I actually feel. It causes the dual problem then that I feel that people don't understand me and my needs  - but in actual fact I am not showing people ME - so why would they know?  Also, when the real me is exposed (tiredness, sadness, burnout) people get confused because I have not presented myself to them before in that form.

    My mindset with people is that to expect nothing and then you are never disappointed and in relation to your thread topic that means that on the outside I seem like I live a high functioning existence - i.e. I work full time in a busy and challenging job, I have a partner, a child etc but on the inside there are times that I feel very isolated, at a loss as I seem to always expected to cope, have all the answers etc, sometimes I don't and sometimes I find it very difficult to "unslump myself".  Maybe people thing that I don't want or need help, or don't think that I want it, or are not interested, or don't know HOW to help. 

    They seem to forget that I am a human, just like them...