Black and white, or shades of grey thinking

I never thought it was, I'm glad not to have ADHD too, I've just noticed that many here do have it as well as autism and that it seems to make me an outlier.

 Joe  I feel exactly the same way, I think I exhaust myself with trying to be fair, look at things from all angles, weigh up possibilities in trying to stay balanced - maybe more black and white thinking would be refreshing?! I may try this - it would certainly save time!

Studies suggest 50-70% of people with ASD also have ADHD. As far as I know, I just have ASD, I didn't score highly in the ADHD tests.

The purpose of being on a forum is to get some benefit. I takes time and energy. If sharing your points and reading others is helpful, informative, calming or rewarding, then it is all fine.

It is not a competition.

TheCatWoman said:

Would people not engage with me if they didn't think I'm ND?

I can’t speak for everyone, but I engage with you because we share some interests and it is an enjoyable thing to do. It is likely that others would have similar and perhaps more reasons why they connect. It is you as you are that makes people engage, so perhaps your autism makes connection easier, but it’s not as if people check to see how high your autistic support needs are before they will consider engaging. 

Your writing style is blunt and to the point, so that can be an autistic trait. My communication style is at times also to the point, but then I overcompensate by using formal and longwinded, overly polite language to avoid offending people, so I can’t get a balance. Sometimes I can’t tell if something is impolite or not. I used to be criticised for being offhand, or else overdoing the politeness, it’s impossible to get a balance. 

TheCatWoman said:

nor do I have ADHD, which seems to make me a bit of an outlier.

From the posts here, I would estimate that a lot fewer than 50% of the people here have ADHD, so don’t let that make you feel excluded. Anyway, while the forum isn’t exclusive, the NAS charity was set up to support autistic people and their families, so perhaps people here with AuDHD/Autism & ADHD unnecessarily feel as if they are on the boundaries too. Sometimes I feel as if nobody gets how my focus can be unpredictable and my concentration disappears. I have times when I feel incapable of writing anything here, or my responses seem shallow or callous, but by the time I’ve noticed, it’s too late to edit them. 

I am very dark grey and off white. A lifetime's training, but I had to see the greys in order to survive. When I lived by black and white (and I still do a lot) I was the one who had to face the consequences.

Thank you Jo, it is a blessing and a curse, unlike ArchaeC I'm not sure it's a fear of getting it wrong, it's more a distrust of knee jerk reactions and those who ask me to make them. Often things are phrased in a way that attempts to trip up any dissenting voices and what seems like a fairly normal question suddenly turns toxic as a whole backstory I was unaware of unfolds. It's a power play and as many of you who read my posts will know I dont' like power games and refuse to play them without very good reason.

My response to people who accuse me of getting bogged down in details, is that I want to make an informed desicion and why do they have a problem with me getting the information, what are they afraid I'll find out?

Yes somebody has said they don't understand me or how I think, but then I don't understand how they think either, I only object when it feels like someones having a pop at me because of it. I know my somewhat muddled senses mean that not everyone can associate an over cooked fried egg with net curtains, but that's OK, we can have a laugh about it, it's when the B&W thinkers can't seem to accept that thats how it is for me and make no attempt to understand me but expect me to understand them.

I don't stim either, nor do I have ADHD, which seems to make me a bit of an outlier.

Would people not engage with me if they didn't think I'm ND? I often feel as if I'm not ND enough, or that my points on the spectrum only overlap on a coouple of points.

Joe said:

I'm sometimes accused of getting bogged down in the details

I was “accused” of this in my ASD assessment Medical Report. Outside of this, others have accused me of it too. I have a fear of getting something wrong (e.g., moral decisions or not finding out and giving the full facts about a situation or a news item, which could cause another person to get the wrong idea about something). I think that is why I carry guilt. 

This reminds me of lyrics in a New Model Army song called 'The Cause' - 'All we wanted was a chance to see the world, In black and white instead of a hundred shades of grey'.

I can be black and white thinking as in I have a strong sense of what I think is right and wrong and how I like to do certain things.  However, in general - opinion, decisions etc, I think I'm more a 100 shades of grey, as I look to weigh up all the possibilities and look at things from lots of different angles to feel like I'm making the 'right', 'balanced' decision.  I'm sometimes accused of getting bogged down in the details, not seeing the wood for the trees etc.  It can totally cause me to overthink. 

My 'big picture' usually gets constructed from the bottom up using all the details.  It's both a blessing and a curse (or if we're being grey something in between!).  

TheCatWoman said:

the way everyone is sayng they think in B&W and can't cope with shades of grey is making me feel misunderstood and question my place here and as an autistic person? B&W

I don’t understand a lot of people or understand how some of your experiences are for you, but I don’t think anybody fully understands what something is like from another’s perspective, even though there are sometimes replies to people in other posts which say “I know exactly what that is like because I am going through that”. 

Has anybody here said they don’t understand you? 

If people didn’t think you had a place here as an autistic person, I think it is unlikely they would engage with you. 

I wouldn't worry. I don't obviously stim which made me wonder. But people are different. 

Like I said, if you are not stressed it is a lot easier. I think you have arranged your life to minimise stress, intentionally or otherwise, so you maybe don't see it. Pressure is what makes it more obvious.

You might just not have any issues where it has been a problem so don't have examples.

Say I think the majority of autistics can think B&W but not all do so. I think it’s good you are able to see the shades of grey, only shades of grey I see are in my carpets lol! 

Like many autistics seem to struggle with eye contact but I seem to be ok with that, unless they aren’t nice to me but I suppose that could be more of a natural response 

'Oh Lord, please dont' let me be misunderstood' as they song says, but the way everyone is sayng they think in B&W and can't cope with shades of grey is making me feel misunderstood and question my place here and as an autistic person? B&W thinking and a dislike of shades of grey seems to be one of the few commonalities, but not one I share.

I think it’s safe to say I defo see thinks black and white especially lately even on this forum so my deepest apologies x 

I have had similar experiences when someone is upset, I want lots of information about the problem so that I can give relevant advice. This seems an eminently sensible approach to me. However, people have occasionally said they just want comforting. I'm just not good at 'there-there' type comforting. I cannot say that all will be well, if I do not know the circumstances.

I recognise that a lot. I often have to tell myself that it's ok to not know something but there are occasions in work where, if I am asked a question I don't know the answer to, it completely throws me and basically leaves me feeling like a massive fraud.

I'm not sure if this is something already acknowledged, but imposter syndrome must be big with ASD1 people (and maybe other ND types as well) - heavily related to masking.

I think I'm more like you Martin, if someone transgresses my personal ethics and principles then they're dammed, I just can't bring myself to speak to them again and I certainly wouldn't trust them again even if I did have to speak to them.

I often find that I'm expected to have an opinion or take a stand on something when I don't feel I have enough information and then I get into arguments about being indesicive, it's not indesicion, it's lack of information, I've had people tell me I dont' need more information as it's a simple choice. That is something I really don't understand, or rather I understand it's intellectual tyrany.

I rarely plan ahead and certainly not where other people are involved, I've invested way to much energy to believe things will happen and not get changed at the last moment when something "more interesting " comes along. Obviously things like medical appointments and stuff are different.

If there isn't a rule for something, then it means I can go ahead and do what I feel is right and often the rules that are there get in the way or make no sense.

I also feel no shame for having my confusion on display and I don't know why one would, but then I have no predisposition towards being omnipotent.

Seems like I'm an oulier then, I've often wondered why I don't feel I fit in here too well, so I guess this is a big part of the reason.

What wold it feel like for you guys to embrace the grey and live in it? I've tried to live in your black and white world and it nearly killed me, I mean literally nearly killed me and I only just escaped with my sanity and I still brea the scars some physical but mostly emotional.

I think I can be black or white but with an understanding that I may be wrong and that grey areas do exist, especially (and this is key I think) when we don't have all the relevant information. I am quite happy to say that if I don't know something important then I can't take a view on something until I do. I see so many other people who are quite content to take the most trenchant and contentious position on something while holding almost no information on it and I find that utterly maddening.

I think it depends on context. When viewing opposing arguments about, for example, a historical situation, I can see both sides and feel no compunction to espouse one view to the exclusion of the other. I can see shades of grey in many facets of life, political, economic, societal etc. However, in regard to my personal ethics, if someone were to transgress against them in an extreme way they would be forever damned in my eyes. So it seems that on moral questions my thinking is very black and white.

That really makes sense. I think I do the same.

I try to plan ahead so I don’t feel unsure or exposed. It does feel uncomfortable when I can’t do that.

Reading that last paragraph brings it home to me, being in that space makes me shudder.

You can't plan for something and know what to do ahead of time. without being sure. It is the uncertainty that is uncomfortable.

It is tied to masking, people pleasing and trying to look confident I think.

This is why it feels bad as it leaves you exposed with your confusion on display.