Black and white, or shades of grey thinking

Definitely black and white.

My mind likes to land on something definite without doubt.

I know now through therapy that grey areas have to exist and I have to sit in that space with uncertainty without forcing a definite answer.

It feels hellish though.

Trev said:

I find it distressing when organisations know they are breaking the law and the official complaints process/Ombudsman is completely corrupt and no-one is interested in fixing it

That sort of thing distresses me too, and I don’t know what the point of having an ombudsman is.

“Alternative facts” —We don’t need ‘alternative’ and less impactful words to describe lies.

TheCatWoman said:

Are you all black and white, or are you grey?

I am a black and white thinker if it is to do with factual things or events that don’t have grey areas, and I am comfortable thinking that way. However, over the years I have learned to form more nuanced and imaginative thinking on matters that are grey, such as some aspects of archaeological interpretation, but I would never suggest that something is true if there would be a possibility of it being false. I like tech and I have a rigid thinking style. 

Generally, I am a rule keeper. I like rules because I know where I am with them and what is expected of me and they make me feel safe. At the same time, I am an independent thinker and I can be a bit a rebel if I believe it is in a good cause. I struggle over philosophical questions such as, “Is it morally justified to break the law in order to achieve a greater good”. The Suffragettes engaged in activities that broke the law, yet they are much admired by some today and as a woman it is hard not to be grateful for what they achieved. I understand that answers mightn’t be all good or all bad, but I struggle with that.

If someone actually knows what they are talking about and offers me advice on how to do something I'm always happy to listen as I like to learn new things, although so far in every case I can remember where someone suggested doing something differently it turned out they didn't know what they are talking about.

It systemized thinking. Rules and reasons are searched for, like it or not.

If you can't find a rule it is uncomfortable.

Arbitrary things like simple questions, e.g. tea or coffee, I find hard. I try not to think and just give a default answer, or make up a routine or rule, else I stand there so long people give up. It is frustrating.

TheCatWoman said:

Doe's thinking in b&w feel safe? Does it give you some kind of security to shut the complexities of the world away?

I recall having a similar discussion with my therapist and was told that many autists struggle so much with learning the "rules" of society that the ones they do learn were such a struggle that they are unwilling to think these are not fixed.

Change can be very hard for them and changing such a hard won understanding is too painful to contemplate.

I guess the lack of structure of the "shades of grey" approach is also an athema to many autists so they will resist it.

It makes sense when you consider that everthing involved there come from autistic traits.

I tend to find things more distressing when they're black and white, obviously there are some things that are black and white and are distressing because they're wrong, like child abuse, but on the whole I avoid black and white thinking and question myself extensively when I find myself doing it.

Isn't it an odd thing that so many people like us who live on a spectrum have so many problems seeing the world as a spectrum? I wonder if we'd get along better in the world if this was part of coming to terms with being ND and part of whatever help we get when we're diagnosed?

I know it's very common in only children, but I need to be able to find out for myself that something dosen't work and my solutuon may be very different to anothers, for me there are multiplicities of answers rarely one, which may in part explain my difficulties with things like tech. It's inredibly frustrating to have someone stand there and tell you what you're doing wrong, even if they're right, when it's doubly frustrating. It feels totally disabling and I dont' want to engage with it or them for a while.

I'm not very much of a rule taker, although I do get cross about injustice of the sort mentioned above, but for other things I've never stopped being a "naughty girl", the one that led the school out on strike and told the teachers they had no right to complain as they were frequently on strike themselves. If you want an excuse I'm your woman.

Black and white thinkers often seem to think they can punish me into thinking the same they do, but thats never worked, all it's taught me is to manifest the word thrawn. I find b&w thinking confusing, how can people not see all the possible outcomes and think that there might be some they've not thought of? Doe's thinking in b&w feel safe? Does it give you some kind of security to shut the complexities of the world away? Are you afraid of some kind of internal anarchy? I'm not asking these questions to have a pop at anyone, this is just how it appears to me, who lives my life in the marginal, the numinous. Maybe this is a reaction to being treated as an outsider, for so many years, I embraced the margins as my natural habitat to the extent where I'm at my most comfortable living on an island.

I am a very black and white thinker. I'm aware there are things that are not black and white but I dislike it when there are grey areas. I struggle to think that way, I need certainty and grey areas don't give me that.

I prefer to deal with areas which are black and white e.g. the product does/does not meets the required standards or the experimental fusion reactor did/did not achieve nuclear fusion.

I find it distressing when organisations know they are breaking the law and the official complaints process/Ombudsman is completely corrupt and no-one is interested in fixing it - I don't like it but don't get distressed by other people breaking the rules, it is more when there is a personal impact that it causes me distress.

When it comes to politics there are gray areas because everyone has their own opinion which is fine, but unfortunately their views are sometimes based on facts that are not true (or to use modern parlance - alternative facts).

When it is obvious to me that something will go wrong if someone carries on trying to do something incorrectly, if I point it out, most of the time I will be ignored and when they break something or hurt themselves they will become angry at me for trying to help.

TheCatWoman said:

Are you all black and white, or are you grey?

I am more inherently black and white in my thinking but I had to learn to think in all 50 shades as time went on and I moved into management as there are so many sides to a situation that you have to deal with that binary thinking is not helpful.

Negotiations are also something that requres a constantly shifting stance and way of thinking to reach a desired outcome. You often need to approach it from a more extereme position to start with knowing you will need to flex in your demands and eventually meet somewhere in between.

For people who stay in the same sort of lower level roles their whole careers and who show ND traits I have seen a lot of this lack of flexibility over the years. It seems an essential skill to progress socially too.

Rule following seems a classic symptom of this and I see a lot of it here where people seem infuriated that others can bend or break the rules and get away with stuff. I can remember a time when this was true of me so I appreciate where they are coming from.

Since I found out about the common cognitive distortions 6 months ago or so, which everyone including NT can do and includes black & white thinking, I realise I have tended to do it.

For me it is more a feature of burnout, stress, or overload. Tiredness also makes it harder.

When I'm stressed it gets harder to make decisions, the lizard brain is in charge and the prefrontal cortex in the back seat. I can only take a binary position, if I can make a decision at all.

When calm I am much better, pretty much normal.