Empathy from neurotypical people

When your'e younger the idea that it is in some peoples nature is to take advantage of your nature doesn't really cross your mind. Or that they might take huge pleasure from this. Until something happens. Even now my awareness is the knowledge of these realities, not so much that they might occur each time I go out. Its hard wired to see the best, I do definitely pick up on cues about people from their eyes when they look and talk to me – this was taught and self learned.I can immediately realise people are only going to waste my time or take advantage.  I'm no longer that exact same person, even to this morning, its more the having to wake up and deal with who I am tomorrow and adjusting to those differences (rather than the problems I face) if you see what I mean.

Yeh as I got older I understood how empathy actually works. As a young autistic boy I thought that everyone was on my side because they were human like me. However the truth is you come into this world with nothing and leave with nothing. Un fair things happen. Hey I am 25 and I've been called all the discriminatory words for autism. I am hardened to it though. I get it now. We're all human and we are all hurt. And what do hurt people do? Hurt other people is the answer. So best thing I learned was just to be a bit kinder. Yes it's hard being autistic but the point is that it doesn't need to be. I know people can tell I'm autistic but I don't try and hide it anymore like I did when I was younger.

Sorry I have my alerts turned off. Yes or equality leads the marginalised or the oppressed to become the oppressors. I don’t feel allpeople take workplaces very seriously. For someone who's worked their way through an apprenticeship or through the ranks its a different experience. In have always viewed the interview process as discriminatory to an extent because so many people are not wholly tolerant or accepting of other types they have not met before. Although teams teach us to be more so, the search for more of one thing over another (in the age of being able to analyse and sift through things instantly) is a problem for humankind imo. Unless unbiased ai machines are making the big decisions the fallback position is always a little bit racist.

pietro_21 said:

schoosl and the workplace do not support everyone equally. This isn't even to do with fairness, these are often human values and moral codes being undemined.

I recall in a management training course that I must stop trying to treat my staff equally as that was against the Civil Services code of conduct. I must treat staff fairly instead.

That is to say if I had one wheelbound memeber of staff and I had a task that required someone to, say, run a cable down a staircase then I would be required by equality to expect the wheelchair bound person to do this job as well as an able bodied person.

Equality in this sense is pointless.I need to allocate the tasks so they are allocated according to the capacity and ability of the staff so the workload is fairly distributed and nobody is disadvantaged.

Also think if you are interviewing potential candidates for a role. If you have an NT candidate with the skills and experience you are after and a ND candidate with the same skill and experiece but who admits they have issues with meltdowns, high absence rates, don't like team work and struggle with phone work then the equality act says we have to treat the two as equals and cannot take the negative effects into consideration for the candidate selection.

Do you think this is reasonable for the employer?

I can understand it being an issue if the information is not disclosed but assumed by the recruiter though.

The equality situation is a really tricky one because most recruiters can spot candidates that they think will be a problem later on through their own experience and will find ways to down mark them in ways that stay within the letter of the law.

I know I always insisted on having a second recruiter with me for such applications, we had our own score sheets (provided by HR) and had to keep these from every interview to show there was no personal bias came into the assessment process. I know other recruiters made these score cards up after the interview so they aligned to meet their opinions.

Maybe I did it too much by the book for most places but it felt impotant to me and I was able to build a quite effective team in spite of a few ND personality issues in it (yes I did hire ND people).

I am very wary of empathy from neurotypical people, for several reasons - past experience being one. There is a middleground which I see is rarely met, when they do meet you there an alterior motive quickly becomes all to vibib,le So NDs are required to extend themselves futher into a world designed for extraverts and NTs who save energy and effort and generally come out on top (because the system favours them). So ultimately there is anunadressed bias there, and in all big organisations and industries which does not allow for alternative thinking and working methods even if these strive towards exactly the same goal. In 100years time people will look bac at how ignorant and blinkered we were to what general popiulatiopnms are doing as schoosl and the workplace do not support everyone equally. This isn't even to do with fairness, these are often human values and moral codes being undemined. To take for your self at someone elses detriment also often crosses the line into criminality which I believe in the future laws will be be much stricter to pick up apon. The world currently is a big free for all. 'Normal' or 'Beautiful' allows you to get away with things someone else wouldnt in the same situation. 

Hi pthwaites7 I think that it may be useful to lower expectations of others and put more of your energy into self-care and acceptance than looking for it externally? I myself am newly diagnosed and working on this but tbh I have an abusive extended family so this has been a habit of mine for decades! My husband and adult children are very supportive and I am aware of this privilege that I have 

I have had some empathy from my family but in the case of my (80 year old) mother, she has been completely dismissive.  This is hard as her refusal to accept this is part of me, somehow has built a barrier between us.  Previously I was always giving in to whatever she wanted.  Now I am trying to stand up for myself a little bit more, drop the mask.  Generally I have found friends are accepting of my diagnosis but don't want to see me being any different than the person they have always believed me to be.  Im sorry I don't have any positive suggestions to help but I thank you for your post.  I'm not sure I can help my family to understand if they dont want to.

This is just my opinion, but I think it can be incredibly hard for some neurotypical people to even begin to imagine what life can be like for us, and just how hard some of the challenges we face can be for us.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm willing to admit that when it comes to empathising with other NDs, I can sometimes struggle if the things that cause them difficulties are things that don't cause me the same level of distress and anxiety.

No matter how articulate I try to be, I know that nobody (and this includes NDs) will ever truly know what it feels like to be me. Why? Because the only person who will ever know EXACTLY what it feels like to be me, is me.

I understand that it can feel frustrating to be on the receiving end of what we perceive to be platitudes, but I think that if people are willing to take the time to listen to us, I think we should cut them some slack and feel thankful that they are at least trying, even if it might not seem like it at the time. 

Allistic people are good at cognitive empathy, I think that this is what you are getting. Autistic people are poor at cognitive empathy but often very good at affective/emotional empathy. A clash of empathy styles.

Everyone in my family and most of my friends have been very accepting of my autism diagnosis, but are still surprised when I behave or react to circumstances in a non-allistic way. I think it is just a cross we have to bear.

Hi and welcome to the community.

pthwaites7 said:

They responded by saying things like, "I gave up trying to be normal years ago". 

Perhaps what they mean by this is that they have discovered and accepted who they are and don't want to just copy what everyone else does, and maybe they're saying that we're all individuals. After all, there is a common saying about autism: If you've met one person with autism, you've met one autistic person. However other people on the spectrum will indeed have struggled in n ways that most others don't, and so you will find understanding and acceptance here.

pthwaites7 said:

But I'm this case, it just feels like a platitude that allows people avoid trying to understand how hard it is to be an autistic person in a neurotypical world.

They have no idea of how it feels so it will be hard for them to genuinely understand.

pthwaites7 said:

at the same time autistic people struggle in ways that most neurotypical people never will. I don't know how to help my family to understand that. 

Have you considered that they may not care enough to want to understand?

Really understanding takes effort and most people are so caught up in their own lives, their own issues etc that they don't have the capacity to want to get to know someone elses problems, especially when it comes to mental health.

There is such a stigma around anthing mental health related that many people don't really want to get into it, don't want to acknowledge that they have someone like this in the family etc. It used to be a lot worse but the change is very slow and I think is still generations away from becoming commonplace.

Personally I try to respect their desire not to know. I know and I have responsibility for my own wellbeing so don't rely on them for support if they show they are unwilling.

If you need support, get a psychotherapist who understands autism and they can do more for you in a few hours than your family could in years I expect.

I guess in essence is don't count on others but take ownership of your own care. You can do it 

Hi pthwaites7 and welcome and congratulations on your diagnosis.

If family members are willing to try and understand there are definitely resources out there to do so, but they can never know how it truly feels to be autistic. My therapist said it's like trying to teach a cat to bark, which kind of puts it in a nutshell. This doesn't mean they can't learn about our challenges and what helps us get through.

Hopefully you'll get more information on here.(⁠•⁠‿⁠•⁠)

I agree. I think most of my relief comes from accepting myself, but not from the external world. Maybe the same happens to you.

For example, saying "I do not want to go to social event X." has become easier. If they do not want to listen to that, they could do what TheCatWoman suggests (reading) or just accept my choice.

But for me the experience of "social event X" is normally quite different and at times very undesirable, and I should allow myself to not go.

I've had this sort of response too and felt relief that peole are trying to understand, but frustration because they really can't understand, but then how can they understand? I guess you're going to have a period of feeling like peole are walking on egg shells around you, maybe the best thing is to try and get them to read some books or watch some videos or something?