School

Very well said, and thought. What you described is how it was, "keep away from me" attitude all over. Its truly shocking how things were in the 80s, younger generations cant even fathom what was going on back then.

I also have a daughter, she is a Neurotypical, but she understands my autism, respects it and she has been my rock in this life. But as you said it, I try to be a better parent than my parents were, but truth is, I cant get that bad, its truly impossible to be so ignorant.

Happy for you and your daughter.

I’m from Poland. In my country if someone said that they are autistic, others treated them like a contagious disease. Literally. “Don’t come close I don’t wanna get your autism”. At least in the 90’s maybe it’s little better now, I hope. It’s hard, so here I understand why my family denies it. But it’s the easiest for them to do. To just happily ignore someone else’s problem, because it’s not theirs. My whole life was one big gaslight and the question “what’s wrong with you “ or stop exaggerating etc. when I was pregnant I still had no idea I’m an aspie, but I always felt that I’m profoundly different. I promised myself, that if my child inherits my weird personality, I will never tell my child:

“you are creating these problems yourself”

“ it’s all your fault”

“you provoke so don’t wonder why you are bullied”

“ behave yourself”

“don’t exaggerate”

“you have depression? Haha! Go clean the kitchen, it will pass” etc. 

instead I would look for professional help and take my beloved child’s problems seriously. My only daughter seems to be NT like her daddy, but it doesn’t mean she may not have any problems. I will do my best to provide my child with good childhood experience, understanding and love. 

I try to reply to you but my post is flagged as spam. Just so you know i did not ignore you. I appealed it should be published at some point.

Sometimes, throughout my life, when things were calm, or things were really bad, or even it was one of those standard "not 100% days", some nights, I would just send a thought out there, to all the ones that feel like us, the ones who think nobody is there for them, people who are kidnapped, domestic abuse victims, people who lost their job, lost a close relative, anyone crying, and I would say, "you may not know it, it may not help, I think I can see you sad, but I know you are out there somewhere, and you are not alone".

One of the things that kept me going at really bad times, was that somewhere out there, was someone doing the same. It has to be. it's necessary.

Life, amongst them Neurotypicals, is a tester and a fixed game. In my case, I became an easy target, and that leaked in my personal life, took me to the hands of a very violent person. I guess this is yet another story for a "darker" topic.

I FEAR people. They say the greatest enemy will always hide in the last place you would ever look. But I learned the hard way, they do not hide, and they are everywhere.

This "naive" you wrote, I totally get it. I think thats where all starts and ends really. Evolutionary we are "friendly", optimistic, maybe naive is masking what we really are, its a word for Neurotypicals. We are "future" material.

They say that if Aliens were to visit earth, they would be probably friendly. Because it would take a life-form a culture of peace and ability to coexist with each-other to progress technologically and achieve a space travel to reach us.

Meanwhile on planet earth, they still try to get back to the moon.

Dont worry about them. We are out there. You, I, all of US, we are not alone.

Sometimes, throughout my life, when things were calm, or things were really bad, or even it was one of those standard "not 100% days", some nights, I would just send a thought out there, to all the ones that feel like us, the ones who think nobody is there for them, people who are kidnapped, domestic abuse victims, people who lost their job, lost a close relative, anyone crying, and I would say, "you may not know it, it may not help, I think I can see you sad, but I know you are out there somewhere, and you are not alone".

One of the things that kept me going at really bad times, was that somewhere out there, was someone doing the same. It has to be. It's necessary.

Life, amongst them Neurotypicals, is a tester and a fixed game. In my case, I became an easy target, and that leaked in my personal life, took me to the hands of a very violent person. I guess this is yet another story for a "darker" topic.

I FEAR people. They say the greatest enemy will always hide in the last place you would ever look. But I learned the hard way, they do not hide, and they are everywhere.

This "naive" you wrote, I totally get it. I think thats where all starts and ends really. Evolutionary we are "friendly", optimistic, maybe naive is masking what we really are, its a word for Neurotypicals. We are "future" material.

They say that if Aliens were to visit earth, they would be probably friendly. Because it would take a life-form a culture of peace and ability to coexist with each-other to progress technologically and achieve a space travel to reach us.

Meanwhile on planet earth, they still try to get back to the moon.

Dont worry about them. We are out there. You, I, all of US, we are not alone.

I wish our stories are heard, made sense of and that there is better understanding and future for next generations. 

I feel sorry for what you went through. Yes, these things were tortures! It’s good the doctor finally saved you. I heard from my step dad that if I don’t change, grow up, my life is gonna be miserable. I had meltdowns and shutdowns as a kid and teenager. I cried a lot and was suicidal. There was nobody for me. They don’t know that I already know, I don’t talk to them about it. They would only bully me, I know them too good. For me till today sounds like whistle, squeak, scream all high pitch they make me starting. And others around sometimes laugh. When the cars brake, there is often a squeak. That is awful. I was laughed at that I don’t go to parties and I had no friends. For me party is a mental torture, like an electric shock. But there is one thing I went through it was my hell on the earth. I’m not gonna write about it in the forum, but I can only say. I was definitely not prepared to deal with life, too naive, too vulnerable and abused, also growing up in violence. 

Thats what happened with me as well. And the result was I was exposed to unnecessary conditions, never got support, and I was always the "tantrum" child. My mother was particularly good at not being good at it. Up to her death a year ago, her words would always be "if you keep being the way you are, you will die alone". Thats what summaries what both my parents use to say from as long as I can remember myself.

And make no mistake, this was always happening throughout my life. Both my parents would not respect none of my traits, they would received them as Weird, Bizarre and childish nonsense, or at the very best see me as an introvert (also a stigma term back then).

And when I went to the army, and I was diagnosed as Autistic, my father used heavy military connections to revert that to "series of neurosis" and keep me in the duty. And what I found myself into for 18 months was this:

First, the amount of filth and dirt, can only be summarised in two words "ongoing decay". Everything was smelly, disgusting not to touch, but even to look at. I have a serious case of OCD since I was a toddler, I cant stand dirt. This is literally the first thing I experienced the first moment I stepped into the registration office, but soon realised it was the least of my problems, as then, all hell broke loose.

I was put to sleep in a room with 29 more people. I wont go on the bullying, it would be degrading to retrieve that memory. During the night, every 2 hours a new patrol would begin. Two people would come, two people would go. Each pair had to pull their rifles from the secure stand, where they were secured with chains through the triggers and barrels. This process would require force to release the chains and also check the ones applied were secure. I was waken up so disturbingly that my heart started running as i type this the way it did then, 30 years ago. But the pairs would not come/go at the same time, a guard would wake up the new pair 30 mins prior and to do that would come in the room, open the fluorescent lights and kick beds.

Now. Guess what unit I was placed. Artillery. I spent 18 months listening to canons and tanks. If I was to be tortured based on my Sensory Hypersensitivity, that would be the way.

But then, I was blessed a Psychiatrist did an assessment and marked me with Asperger's and I was not put inside one of these tanks. He was one of the pioneers to test Risperidone on autistics and offered me a chance to trial it. That medication has saved my life, for that alone, I am happy I went to the army.

That Psychiatrist saved my life. We are still in contact. Took me under his wing so to speak. He diagnosed me for Asperger's and did the change the last day I left the army to avoid my parents frustrating the procedure.

But when I first landed in the army, I had nobody, I was practically tortured by the environment I was put into. So, I called back home, I called my father, I was crying to take me away. I had marks all over my body from hitting things when I was having meltdowns. My meltdowns were seen as just aggressive behaviour, and my shutdowns as disrespect to officers, and I was getting disciplinary actions on my record. I was in HELL. I asked help from my dad.

The answer of my father was this: "Grow a pair".

My life, has been hell, because my parents never accepted the fact that I had Autism. Some people from my family refuse to accept it to date. When my parents found out I left the army with a diagnosis for Autism, I was practically outcasted from my own family, and they took the whole thing to the next level.

They were telling people, even random ones they worked with, that I was just a black sheep, only half facts of happened to the army ( that i was crying like a baby and i was a coward and a disgrace). That I was just too demanding, bored to do this or that, and that I would react like a baby, just because I could not get things my way. They spoke like this to so many people, to make me look as just a bad character, they got so used doing it that they literally did that with anyone they ever met and asked them how I am, "oh him, what a disgrace, let me tell you...".

Eventually I started meeting people who have heard of me, with most notable a girl that I met online and met at a coffee restaurant. When she realised who I was, because I was describing the work of my mother (very specific profession), she started saying all the stuff she had heard, with what went down when I was at the army, and started laughing. There must have been 50 people in that restaurant that day. They all stopped and looked at me, most of them laughing, the rest of them shaking their heads.

Parents and autism. In the 80s. Yeah.

They never smacked, or hit me. I was always provided with clothes, food, toys tc etc But allow me to say, I was abused from both of them, till the day they died. Because they never cared to support me, only to judge me.

This story goes further down the rabbit hole. Gets very ugly when daddy decided to make a new family and had two kids that were also diagnosed autistics, one of them Schizophrenic. But thats a dark story for another time.

What my life would have been if I lived today, one may ask. Truth is, its a roll of a dice. With parents, its like Forrest Gump said about Chocolate boxes, "you never know what you gonna get".

I think it hurt my mom’s ego. “My daughter is autistic?! No way! My daughter is not broken!” Unfortunately I had it really hard way, if she only knew… I’m happy that at least now I know. 

The tragedy is how similar all of our stories are. Yeap, mommy and daddy never took the referral for Autism, 80s in Greece is was like I would be marked brain damaged, and to some extent it still is a stigma in Greece as we speak. I was so sorry to read myself in your comment. Then again, I would be more sorry to be those flatlined, easy to please, ordinary Neurotypical. I would not change myself or my past, I like who I am, sometimes impossible to live with, but worth it.

p.s. re Creativity, I found my peace in Music, and I love Cinematography but the latter is to "collaborating" for me.

I was growing up in nineties. My school experience was quite similar to yours. I could not interact with more than one child. I used to look for other kid that was also quiet and outsider like me. The noise that other kids made was painful and unbearable. It still is that’s why I avoid working with children. The teachers used to force me to play with my peers until I went to meltdown and ran away screaming and crying. That made my situation worse because the other kids had fun of me. I was bullied all the time. I was the “shy” one, almost unable to speak (often having shutdowns). Teachers suggested my mom to have me tested but she said that I’m perfectly normal just like her. Yeah, mommy- ego. Anyways I had it all hard way. Always being the weirdo, disliked, bullied, but I was a bit lucky to be labeled by teachers as creative and intelligent. I had problems with algebra and generally everything that was complicated and abstract. But geometry geography and other stuff that you can picture - highest scores. And languages also good, it saved my skin in secondary school because my colleagues started coming to me for help so I made a deal with them. Help for no bullying. It worked although I never felt connected to them, I was always on different wavelength. At least I had bodyguards 

I agree with most things said here from others.

If I was to add something, and keeping in mind I was at school in then 80s, the ONLY thing I got from school, is something to talk with my Psychologist, in other words, only trauma and uncomfortable experiences that stayed. With anyone in those buildings. Never felt ok with girls either, I am straight, had my fare share of romance in my life, but I really dont know what they want, dont know what to do with them, and they cant figure me out, its a mess and waste of time.

If i had never gone to school (just learn to count and read) and did training on the technologies that followed with the era of Internet to get a worthy job, I would be better off inside today.

I would never go back to that age, not even with today's standards. I read what's happening in schools. Kids 14 years old killing other children for their preferences or being different, in the middle of the road. No way.

For me, School is just a Trial version of what's coming. And its ugly and cold and disturbing and dangerous, and it lasts for the rest of your life.

My experience.

b

I had the opposite to you, I wouldn't have been allowed to stay on at school past 16, A levels were out of the question and as for uni, I would of been a lazy work shy student. I was out of school and into various jobs that didnt' suit me with periods on the dole, I was sacked from nearly every job I had, something that led to more beatings and trouble at home.

Even when I did go to uni in my 40's my parents were largely unsupportive, my Dad especially, people like "us" didn't do things like that. There was a general lack of understanding of the benefits of education once you could do the "three R's", you got a job and worked and saved money, then I was to marry! Yeah that all worked out really well....not!

The equal opportunities act came in whilst I was at school and the male teachers hated it and decided to punish us for it, (like, WTF), they would rage around class rooms telling us all we were good for was getting married and having babies. There was quite a bit of sexual harrasment from male teachers, it was an all girls school, you be told to get something from a cupboard and then the teacher would come in and rub himself against you, it was horrible and nobody did anything about it. The nearest to anything being done was a girls dad came to the school and threatened one of the teachers, but he was threatened with arrest and the girl branded a liar, we were all branded liars.

Urgh I didn't realise how much those memories still effected me, I think I will go and have a shower now!

It was the intense anxiety of trying to please my parents by being the 1st in our family to get to uni , whilst knowing that I lacked the non academic independent living skills to  be able to cope - it was that coupled with the bullying that were the environmental catalysts for my becoming severely mentally ill. There was no help back then, mid 1970's, for people like me.

I have a example of how I was discriminated against in school. In chemistry I tended to do reasonably well in assessments, but the teacher had, for whatever reason, pigeonholed me as not being very bright. In the mock 'O-level' test I came in third place in the top set. When the notice of what exams I was being entered for was released I was down to do the chemistry 'CSE' exam, a less difficult and less well-regarded examination. For once I was so angry that I stood up for myself and asked the chemistry teacher if there were only two people being entered for the 'O-level', the answer being 'no'. I then asked what the point of the mock exam was, if it was not to decide who was being entered for the exam, for which question I received no answer. I then insisted on being entered for the 'O-level' and the teacher gave way. In the end I got a good grade.

I hated school, absolutely loathed it. I was academically able and still wished I could be anywhere else but in school.

It took me a long time to get up the courage to go back to a class room, still the smell of schools brings on my gag reflex. I did go to other classes, back in the day when adult education was a thing and evening classes abounded, I did two massage courses and an unsuccessful archery one. I did a hairdressing course in my mid 30's which was totally unlike school except for some of the people, I didn' treally make any friends, but I got on alright with most people. I learned that put in front of a mirror I perform and lose a lot of social anxiety, I'd pretty much have a story of the day and repeat it to every client. I did an access course a I left school with nothing and didn't find that very good or helpful, but I did do well on the history module. Then I took a deep breath and took the plunge to apply for uni, I got in, on the course I wanted, I knew I was doing it for my own interest and wasn't particularly bothered about getting a "good" degree. Unexpectedly I flourished in the uni environment, I enjoyed the work and enjoyed being left to study most of it myself, lectures and seminars give you information to build upon and some direction. I didnt' celebrate getting my degree ( 2:1), I mourned the end of my time at this fantastic place, where I was challenged and supported in equal measure. I made friends, hung out with people younger than my kids and became a sort of herd matriarch, I also got on really well with my lecturers.

It makes me wonder what I would of become if I'd have had this experience of education in childhood rather than in my 40's?

My 1st school was an English speaking school in Bangkok. My father was a junior diplomat at the British embassy there. They were way ahead of their time in noticing I had difficulties that needed to be checked out . I was tested at GT Ormond street for what then the S word circa 1962 . The result was negative. No other possibilities were tested for. In 1965 I started 10 years of prep and then public school. For the 1st three years I wet the bed almost daily, but never did so at home during the school holidays. Thankfully I'd stopped by time I went to public school. I was subjected to some bullying at prep school.

Almost as soon as I started at public school I was subjected to very high levels of verbal bullying. Within a very short time I went from introverted and shy to being very what we now call socially anxious. That was followed by increasing levels of depression. I was admitted to psych hospital ,for the 1st time, from public school at the start of what should've been the term I took A levels.

I underperformed academically to a quite high degree. A child similar nowadays to how I was then would very likely be seen as 2e. Back in 1961- 1975 there was no help for people like me. It's only very recently that I've found out that academic achievement in school age children is correlated more with executive functioning than with IQ . I had marked EF weaknesses when it came to organising and planning.

In March 2020 an interest in quizzes and tests led me to the high IQ community on Facebook. I did quite well on the high range tests mentioned there.  That included tests created and/or normed by psychometricians.   This may sound unbelievable but I actually find such tests easier than the daily living skills most people take in their stride.

Getting back to education. Apart from a brief attempt at a history A level correspondence course, late 1975 to early 1976, I've not done any further studying  since leaving school. I've been encouraged to do so several times, but have never been able to feel safe enough to be in a classroom with other people . My care coordinator come depot nurse has described it as 'bullying related trauma'.

PE, I'd forgotten the hell that was PE, in primary school runing about in our knickers and vests. At secondary school our netball and tennis pitches were by the road and a load of old perverts would stand in the trees in the park opposite and be very busy in their pockets. Every now and again the school would complain and a police car would drive past and they'd run off, but they always came back.

Bullying wasn't really recognised as a harm then either, " just stay away from them" was the standard advice, not very helpful when you're being hunted around the school by groups of them, then you have to get out through the main gates to go home and they're always waiting for you.

I'v never been very good at working in groups, I can lead them, but I'm not good at being part of one, I argue to much, theres always someone who comes out with something I profoundly disagree with and it becomes orthodoxy for the rest of the group.

But oddly for all my unpopularity I was always the one others came to when they were in trouble or worried about something and thats continued throughout my life. I bowed to the inevitable and became a counsellor in my 30's, and was quite good at it, but I still don't really understand why people think I'm so wise?

Hi Catwoman

I don't think there are any autistic people who have enjoyed school? Most of us endured teasing/bullying, being picked last for a team, having no friends or being in the 'misfits' group, feeling overwhelmed and exhausted.

My school days were in the 1960s &70s, when there was no support for any "special needs" and autism was unheard of in mainstream schools. Kids who had severe learning difficulties went to "special" schools.

In the early 1990s I trained as a special needs teaching assistant, and I don't remember autism being mentioned then. Most of the emphasis was on dyslexia and dyspraxia, with one module on physical disabilities. The children I supported seemed to enjoy the group work or one to one sessions they did with me, as the work was tailored to their needs and helping them succeed at a task, but as autism was still not understood then, there were no specific adjustments for autism (although looking back, I'm sure some of those kids were autistic)

Now I believe that wherever possible, children with special educational needs go to mainstream schools, where they should be supported, but I doubt there is the funding to help them all as much as they need it. Also, I think the support is focused on educational level and lesson adjustments. What about PE? What about break times, when they might benefit from having a quiet corner to sit in rather than suffering the busy playground or the long lunch queue?

I hope our younger neurokin will share their stories.

Hi I am 54 and had a similarish experience. I was ok at infant/juniors as lots of the kids lived near me and my mum would make me play with others from an early age. I didn't get the whole social thing, or teamwork. I particually didn't get girls and some of the boys fascination with them, they didn't play football and like things I did. I just wan't interested in them, loved sports but was no good at any of them.

Secondary school was a similar nightmare to you. Had poor eyesight but didn't want to admit it because it would have been another thing to bully me over. It was not violent bullying just annoying stuff but constant. History,science, and Geography I was above average so was in the top class with the better kids. Maths and English I was terrible at so was in the lower class with my bullies. I so hated maths, just didn't get it, and had poor teachers, of course no TA's, and went to a sub standard school.I have blotted out my secondary school years mentally. This was a all boys school and I don't think I even talked to a girl until I left at 16. By then I got the fascination but had totally missed out on the whole thing. Outside school I liked adult company, they didn't bully me and I thrived once I left school. You are not alone in your experiences.

Rob