Dogma Surrounding Autism

As I’ve come across more people claiming autistic people are a problem it’s made me realise there’s a lot of dogmatic assumptions and beliefs about autism.

The main example is the assumption autism is a social problem because we don’t fit social norms and that social norms are inherently good. When we look to the past we can see “social norms” are actually inherently bad, social norms by their nature are discriminatory and are in direct violation of human rights such as autonomy. Less than a century ago treating women like they’re something less and have fewer rights than men was the social norm. In the 19th century slavery was part of the social norm. Each time we look at a social norm from any time period today’s people frown on it, it must of been someone with a “social problem” to want to deviate and change the social norm. I wonder if any of them were autistic!

Another example is the dogmatic assumption autistic people have a difficulty making friends. Autistic people do all that’s needed to be done to become friends, the reason things don’t work out is because the nonautistic people have a difficulty accepting people who don’t fit the standard norm. Nonautistic people are simply blaming their difficulties on autistic people, friendships are a two way street after all, not the autistic one is responsible for everything. 

I won’t list all the dogmatic assumptions that came to my mind but as one last example, the assumption autistic people have nothing good to offer society which is why they find the idea of a cure beneficial. I can believe that numerous of the greatest scientists throughout history were autistic because “autism traits” are the precise behaviours required to make new discoveries. Narrow interests, detail orientation, intensely focused, can detach themselves from people and spend more time on their work, better at recognising systems and patterns. I would say all these autism traits are of high value if the autistic person is given the opportunity to use them, and that they should be on the “Human Ability Spectrum” instead of defined as “deficits”.

I see a lot of dogma surrounding autism and hypocrisy by people failing to evaluate today’s social norms that people fail to recognise they have the very same difficulties.

  • Some commentator have suggested, on the strength of how Jung described his inner life as a child, that he suffered from childhood schizophrenia.

    That term, by the way, is a massive misnomer. It would be seen as autism now, I did do some research on when the term was used for children, and when psychologists ceased using it, which was in the late 80's. Nancy Spungen was diagnosed with it too, though no doubt it does come with certain specific comorbidities too.

    Jung had a lot of really interesting things to say regarding the psyche, spirituality, and the societies created by a species with a limited consciousness, but as he grew up to be pretty charismatic, he did get onto  something of a guru trip. He was a man of his times, his views on women could be pretty reactionary.

    I think Jung was one of the first to male a distinction between intrpversion and extroversion. He always saw the need to create and conform to social norms as being more of an extroversion thing. 

  • Maybe in the end human mature is human nature, and autism doesn't necessarily preclude individuals from gatekeeping. 

  • It will be interesting to.see how perceptions will change if a more precise cause for autism is ever found. There has been talk that a poo test my be able to determine it, because of the mind/gut connection. 

  • Being new to this debate at age 54, diagnosed later in life, gay man, worked in supermarket retailing and from an Irish Catholic background, there is a lot of truth in this - and since Covid, we are able to see the objective truth of a given situation without all of the programming, brainwashing, mass hypnosis and mind controls, to which we appear to be immune - going forward, we could very well be the “way-showers” in a world that has become highly dysfunctional and has discarded traditional moral values - this is why it is even more important that fighting for our rights for real and genuine support and must be our priority - just look at how the gay community fought for rights and equality and won many of those battles, we should be doing the same 

  • As someone who got diagnosed at 47 . We are different but different is not bad as my wife says am different but not in a bad way . It makes us  all unique the way we have ethical values speak what’s on our mind .i have always known am different but never knew why . Immediately I do believe have picked on in all aspects of my life . People won’t agree that asd does make you vulnerable but it does give us a unique strength .i wished for so long that I was normal or like every one else . When I with my wife’s sons I can tell am different but if we were all the same life would be boring . 

  • For me, it is ALL about the wording, and less about the surroundings, except when a professional manages to ask me questions that sound like they are derived from the DSM, demonstrating they did not hear or understand me.. To simplify and to reduce, has nothing to do with relating to others, it only alienates the "victim of any oversimplification" - unless it is a mythological one, that already carries loads of meanings from our archaic origins. Bleuler did not do well when choosing the name "autistic", it only confirms the dogmas still saturating the field of psychology.

    In any social setting, of course, meet in the middle - where there is some degree of fair play on the other part.

    The wording is not fair play, as I see it.

  • To me "autistic" is inherently an offensive word, just confirming the dogmas of psychology about what they call autism. I am trying to get the name changed - not believing my small efforts will even get anywhere - but anyway.

    I am glad to see your thoughts on the matter.

    On a sidenote, my wish is for it to be named Thales, as his from myth corresponds to the characteristics of an autistic. 

     "Thales was studying the stars and gazing into the sky, when he fell into a well, and a jolly and witty Thracian servant girl made fun of him, saying that he was crazy to know about what was up in the heavens while he could not see what was in front of him beneath his feet."

    Thales of Miletus is said to be the inventor or discoverer of philosophy, making it a fitting name that also could potentially be inspiring and have a more uplifting effect on a person given the diagnosis.

  • Can I ask, have you read C. G. Jung, Civilization in Transition, or more specifically the essays The Undiscovered Self and After the Catastrophe? Without trying to say anything in the context of your words, I feel that the book offer perspectives from another time with other challenges, yet, many of them are still relevant. Not even psychoanalysts understand the inner world of the autistic psyche.

    Seeing that the descriptions of autism are more like superstitions rather than understanding, i was glad to find your words when I googled "autistic dogma", finding others also seeing something similar to me.

    But one thing I would like to point out, the autistic also needs to be careful to not create dogmas about the 'normal' ones.

    What does it say about humanity as a whole when a smaller group is forced to loudly validate or explain themselves from the negative assumptions of others?

  • No one knows the cause of autism, it's certainly not caused by mental health issues as we are born autistic. There is many scientists who are convinced autism is not inherited but is evolutionary by how they've seen genes build on top of themselves and make the evolutionary process accelerate, by how it's persistently increasing now finding children born autistic with neither of his-or her parents autistic. They say the increase of diagnosis can't be because of greater awareness alone. 

    I see autism as positive because the behaviours are of great value in particular areas, when my friends and I are talking they can't believe they never saw what I say, I only saw it because I'm autistic making me more attracted to detail.

    I am on podcasts as a guest myself using my autism as an advantage to help the owners and viewers of their channels, once again, I can only provide that help because of the difference autism gives me.

    Autism influences the individual's perception, the perception influences thoughts, thoughts influence our choices, and our choices make us become who we are. Autism is partially responsible for our identity as it influences our choices. 

  • I was once described in a newspaper article as "living with autism".

    https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/brentwood-man-slams-nhs-mental-7176252

    That doesn't sound right because that makes it sound like its a disease or something.

    I'm not necessarily sure i like "autistic person" either. Autism doesn't define me. I feel my mental health issues have had a far greater impact on me rather than autism itself, albeit the root cause of my mh issues (bullying, loneliness, isolation) are probably the cause of my autism. 

  • There are plenty of articles I've read about young, male right wing extremists who have been diagnosed with ASD.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/07/staggeringly-high-number-of-people-with-autism-on-uk-prevent-scheme

    This here too

    https://www.spectrumnews.org/features/deep-dive/radical-online-communities-and-their-toxic-allure-for-autistic-men/

    The first "incel killer" who killed several people in California in 2014 was autistic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings#Mental_health_and_social_problems

    It's a taboo topic, but I'm glad its being picked up by groups now as there's no hiding from the fact that we are extremely over-represented in cases of extremism and the incel community

  • How very well said. I wish I had come up with those words/

  • Yes its tough. When I have a meltdown I shout at my wife and get so destressed with her. She knows its nothing personal and that its not aimed at her but i still feel so terrible afterwards

  • What is dogma? Are you telling me dogmatic assumptions are true? 

    There's numerous websites, books and videos saying the exact things I've written, are you going to tell me I read and watched my imagination instead of websites?

    A couple of good things in a social norm does not make a social norm good. I were a member of an academy, all the other people got along with each other, that sounds good right? At the same time they were persistently in violation of laws, rules, and regulations. So are you now going to continue telling me violations are inherently good?

    That's precisely what you're saying by opposing me. If the social norm is good and full of equality why are things like the Neurodiversity Movement still in action? Why are numerous autistic people in suicidal ideation? Why are numerous autistic people bullied? Are you now going to tell me bullying is good?

    Social norms by their nature cause division, not unity. Normality is directly oppositional to acceptance of human diversity. Humans are diverse by nature, there is no such thing as a "normal human" meaning social norms will always cast people out violating human rights and making the minorities nothing but spectators behind a glass wall which causes suicide because of thwarted belonging.

    It's as if you don't know what social norms are, social norms are not a written list of laws, rules and regulations, they are unwritten and not determined by authorities.

    Social norms are typically defined as “rules and standards that are understood by members of a group, and that guide or constrain social behaviors without the force of law”

    "without the force of law" 

    If the majority approves of a behaviour it is part of the social norm including disobedience to laws, rules, and regulations. How often do we hear people talk about the grey area? Why can't they define the behaviour as moral but only tolerable if the social norms are inherently good?

    The majority does not approve of diversity, that's the minority of the population meaning the minority that accepts human diversity are not part of the social norm. 

  • According to research by autism charities over 95% of autistic people see autism as positive which is why we prefer identity first language, "autistic person" instead of "person with autism," it's even here on the NAS's website advising people to talk about autism positively. 

    By professionals there is a cure vs no cure debate with the autistic ones saying they don't want a cure. In comment sections of videos it is extremely rare to find an autistic person wanting a cure. 

    I would say this forum sounds negative because it is people seeking advice of how to respond to complicated situations like benefits and anxiety, I can name numerous things different about autistic people that can be defined as divine gifts. 

  • The only thing i dont like is the effect my breakdowns have on my loved ones, i feel terribly guilty for putting them through stress

    Yes - I hear that loud and clear....your word "guilty" is more appropriate than mine when substituted for the phrasing about ASD being an "excuse".

    "ASD is a fact that explains things about me, but I still feel terribly guilty for putting others through stress as a result."  That is what it feels like for me too.  So frustrating.

  • I have been rejected most of my life, made fun of and discriminated against for being different. I'm not angry anymore though, Im glad in a way because I dont want to be the same as everyone else and ive finally got to a point in my life where I like who I am.

    The only thing i dont like is the effect my breakdowns have on my loved ones, i feel terribly guilty for putting them through stress

  • I agree with a lot of what you say and I think there needs to be an element of "meeting in the middle" from both sides. I have really good friends and colleagues, some classed as neurodivergent altho not necessarily autistic, and some who are probably more neurotypical. They're all really nice accepting people who have known me since before any diagnosis. 

    I think it depends on your experiences of life. I should imagine if you have felt rejected at many stages of your life with no friendships or job it would make someone very angry indeed. I wonder how much the wording of official literature influences perception. "Deficits in social communication". This would make anyone feel worthless  and also reinforces the notion from a neurotypical point of view that there's "something wrong with you". This is why I think there needs to be a shift and we are talking more now about the double empathy problem instead.

    Anyway, we need more stuff from melanie sykes.

  • I seem to remember Katie Hopkins said on twitter or elsewhere that someone was bring "spectrumy" or something like that. Using it in a derogatory manner.

    If ever there was such a movement for autistic people I don't know how I'd feel about taking part. Autistic experiences are so varied. No one can speak for me apart from myself and I'm just me but with a differently wired brain to most people.

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