Dogma Surrounding Autism

Elon Musk is disliked because he has done or been alleged to have done a lot of horrible things, not because he is autistic. I've also never heard of any extremists with autism - mental health issues yes, but not autism. Do you have some examples? I've also never heard autistic used as an insult in the playground, kids don't know enough about it. Gay, yes, although less now than 15 years ago. I didn't actually hear spaz 15 years ago (I worked in schools for about 5 years), that was old and becoming unacceptable even when I was at school, so 25 years ago, however there is a strong regional aspect to insults so you may hear different things in your area. I'm in the south. 

Trans rights are largely a big thing at the moment because there is a fundamental disagreement between Trans campaigners and radical feminists about what a woman is and how to protect women only spaces like changing rooms and refuges while promoting the right of those born as men to live as women. Interestingly no-one is really concerned about the other way around as no-one is threatened by natal women wanting to be men. There is no similar fuss about autistic rights as no-one is against any of our rights as they don't ultimately impact anyone else. You also don't have to declare you are autistic when you sign up for a passport, or when you fill in any sort of government form. The two really aren't comparable. 

If you are going to go into politics you need to know its a bad idea to ever bring the Holocaust and Hitler into any conversation. There is really nowhere good that can go. 

Social norms are not all bad. Lots of them, eg not smoking, wearing a seat belt etc are very good, and while they started with legislation they were only powerful because they became the social norm and were generally accepted. 

I strongly disagree that autistic people can't make friends because all non-autistic people are not accepting of differences. There are tonnes of Facebook groups which build up this idea of us vs them and autistic people can't succeed because the whole world is against us. That simply isn't true, a diagnosis of autism doesn't automatically make you friendless and a hermit hiding away from the world. It means its harder to find your place, absolutely. But it doesn't mean anyone should give up or blame neurotypical people or the neurotypical world for everything either. At the very least, there is absolutely zero benefit in this attitude if you are autistic, unless you WANT to be that angry hermit. 

The presentation of people with ASD in the media is an interesting one - have you watched The Good Doctor? I think there is an over representation of men with amazing abilities as autistic - there was a Bruce Willis film in the 1990s or so with a kid that was being chased by bad guys as he could do super advanced maths and broke all the secret passwords or something. Autism doesn't always mean male with incredible maths or science ability. However you could easily say they same about any other disability, so I don't think autism is being singled out in lack of representation, I think its a general problem about how few people with disabilities are on TV. But I do think its getting better slowly - say now compared to 20 years ago the difference is huge. 

I think it might be hegative on this forum because this is where people come when they need help. There are other people in the public eye who are openly autistic altho not internationally renown like Musk etc. who are, I would say, not "typically" autistic. I think what we need is more acceptance of differences in general in society and it be talked about more openly. Being mindful of others. I think autism is currently defined by observable behaviours but really, it's more internal.

I'm lucky in that I've never seen myself has having a "difference" per se, but have found some things very difficult and have felt different. This is probably because I didn't know I was AS. When I discovered I might be and got my subsequent diagnosis, pretty much all of the literature, blogs etc have been about negative aspects and struggles. This is probably because we DO struggle. But i mean its all focused towards deficits of outward behaviours. Or "superpowers". From autistic and non autistic people themselves.  I think having a better understanding of how we process things has helped me see autism differently and this can explain the variety of behaviours we show.

Lastly, there are a lot of autistic people who are neither geniuses nor require day to day support for living. There are many people like myself who are just trying to get on with life, work, friends,  family etc.

Hans Asperger I believe kept autistic children in cages and did Mengele style experiments on them and their families. The fact that Asperger's is named after him really bothers me

I see autism as a positive thing. If someone gave me a pill that would take autism away I would not even consider taking it. I see my autism as a blessing from God not something to be ashamed of. Yes it makes my life hard sometimes but it also makes me me and I wouldnt be who I am without it. Also, having spent a lifetime observing "normal" people I have come to the conclusion they dont seem very nice and  I would not want to be like them 

The biggest issue I have, and controversial I know, but its this: why, ultimately, should we have to adapt to society, rather than society adapting to us? 

Yes we are absolutely a minority, no doubt about that. But for every single minority group, society goes to extreme lengths to represent.

Take the trans "debate". Trans people are an even smaller minority than autistic people and yet we hear discussions about their "rights" more or less every day. Where is the discussion about the rights of autistic people?

If you look at the media, autistic people are almost NEVER portrayed in a good image in the media.

Elon Musk, is autistic, and is constantly berated and even had his disability mocked by a senior Twitter staff member. 

Greta Thunberg is probably the only autistic person represented in a positive light, even though I personally don't like her, though that's got nothing to do with autism, though I do feel her views on climate are caused by a hyperfixation on the issue. We autistic people can become hyperfixated on things and not see the bigger picture, which I think Miss Thunberg is guilty of.

I have lost track of the number of times I've read about extremists being prosecuted and the fact they are "autistic" being brought up. I did a thread the other day about how almost all paedophiles in the vigilante stings we see have some form of autism. Back to public figures, people like Mark Zuckeberg (not official autism but suspected) are mocked for their mannerisms. Imagine if a black person or a gay person was mocked. There would be a national outcry.

Everything we do is not good enough for mainstream society. The word "autistic/autism" is used as a playground insult as much as "gay" yet it's never brought up. Other slurs like "spaz" are far too frequent. To be honest, I hate the word autism in itself, it sounds too much like austerity, austere etc. 

I am a bit sick of being told I have to do x just to do basci things like not get fired from work or make a basic relationship. 

At the same time, I'm at risk of sounding too depressing here. The biggest thing I feel with this community is almost everyone is negative about the condition and its effects. As someone who also has ADHD, the ADHD community seems to be far more positive and almost embracing their condition. I embrace a lot of my autism. My honesty. People tell me I'm "unfiltered". Sometimes this (may) be bad in terms of certain things like sex, but I make people laugh when they can actually be bothered to talk to me. I actually got compared to "greta thunberg" in terms of a local council project I'm working on, and about how hardline, relentness, and ruthless in getting stuff done. I've always kind of wanted to go into politics and I feel I could be very popular among the publci for being honest, less so by the establishment. 

The way I see it, whilst there are undoubtedly a lot of autistic people with issues, some of the most successful people in society are autistic. I think a disproportionately high number of autistic people, actually, in relation to the NT population go on to be very successful. Elon Musk, Albert Einstein, etc etc. Just like Jews, we are disproportionatley represented when it comes to scientific and academic achievements, and also like that group, we have also faced high levels of persecution. It's worth remembering that autistic people were murdered in the Holocaust, though obviously I'm not trying to compare our suffering to that of European Jews in the Holocaust - it was a Nazi, ultimately, who coined the term "aspergers" and that remains a point of contention for many. But it does always irk me when some try and suggest Hitler was autistic...no evidence of that from what I have seen.

People fear difference. Because it's all about 'Happy Families' for most. Plus, men and women no longer have clearly defined boundaries regarding schedule. We're now given choices.

Yes I definitely agree. Society needs our neurodivergent minds to evolve and question the status quo. 

Commonly, non autistic people are polytropic which means they engage in lots of different interests with much less depth than us autistics. Therefore non autistic people probably are envious of the abilities that stem from our autistic monotropic mind.

https://monotropism.org/

I agree that they are envious of our abilities. When we look at autism through evolutionary psychology it can be strongly suspected autistic people are the ones driving our world forward by being out of the box, having the will to reach further and think from untraditional perspectives.

A very interesting post. You are very right autistic people through out history has contributed a lot! I will say one thing though…. It is human nature to fear what it does not understand. We are different and yes give us an opportunity and we can be great workers and friends. The down side will always be that we just do not fit in the box. In the autistic community we are all the same from the outside (hard work, time consuming to name two) but we all know that we are the same but different. Dogma I am sorry to say is just people who are scared of us. Dare I say that they are jealous of us because of the results we can achieve when we are given a chance and put our minds too it?  

It was once a social to support Hitler and discriminate against Jews. it was once a social norm to go to a big stadium every saturday and watch Christians being thrown to the lions

I think most people do not have morals of their own, they merely follow the social norms of the day. We think for ourselves and that is why we stand out 

Daniel said:

nonautistic people have a difficulty accepting people who don’t fit the standard norm

the reason we don't fit is the aforementioned Double Empathy Problem, which arises from differently build Theory of Mind of autistic and allistic. Basically:

autistic thinks that everyone else thinks differently, 

allistic thinks that everyone else thinks the same.

And as far as I did get talking about it with my polish friend who is ableist to the core, it's the inability to accept the fact that brain can develop differently, build different connecctions over lifetime, and so think differently, that there are two distinct versions of brain development

They WANT to think that their type is unique, while different model is a competition, or something like that on an unconscious level, and my friend wouldn't admit to anything prejudiced llike that, he claims to be 'open and tolerant'

"I have to live in a world that wasn't designed for me"

Great post, you would make a brilliant autistic advocate (if you are not already). 

Daniel said:

Another example is the dogmatic assumption autistic people have a difficulty making friends. Autistic people do all that’s needed to be done to become friends, the reason things don’t work out is because the nonautistic people have a difficulty accepting people who don’t fit the standard norm. Nonautistic people are simply blaming their difficulties on autistic people, friendships are a two way street after all, not the autistic one is responsible for everything. 

This is because understanding of The Double Empathy Problem is not universal. I agree we don’t have difficulty making friends, we just socialise differently.

Your list would be endless if you tried to cover all the myths surrounding our autistic community.