Melanie Sykes have just been diagnosed with autism

But it raises my original point; how robust is the diagnostic process?

Diagnostic tools ~ a guide for all audiences

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/diagnostic-tools/all-audiences

Preliminary tests for assessment referrals

https://www.autismresearchcentre.com/tests/

"For your information as well, an outcome of an autism assessment can be to have autistic traits but to not meet the full criteria sufficiently. My friend's son had this result from their assessment." 

That's the sort of information I am hoping people will share. I find this helpful and again thank you for sharing useful information. 

Why do I need to have experience of adult assesment process to ask a question of how in works? I also dont have COVID but I find it useful to know the assessment process of how it is diagnosed. For two reasons, one out of general interest because of how prevalent it is and two, how I would go about getting such an assessment if I was worried I had this condition. 

There you go again 'extremely unpleasan to speak to". You seem to base this purely on the fact you are offended by me daring to share my genuine doubts over the diagnostic process. I could see your point if I had stated everyting as fact but I put it as a question, I welcomed dialogue and most importantly was open to learn from others. Troll by denfinition means to deliberately antogonise people. It is your opinion that is my intention. It is not, so calling me a troll is an insult because I am not trying to upset people. If I was, you would know all about it! I have deliberately tried to remain measured, appreciative to comments, even when others sresort to name calling etc. 

In terms of my sons diagnosis, yeah ofcourse, I would not like it if someone casting doubt over his diagnosis. I have already experienced this. And I'll tell you something else for free, before I realised my son had issues, I thought his behaviour was something to do with us as parents. I felt a complete failure. In some ways it was a relief to realise he had a condition that needed extra support. It's been a steep learing process for all of us, and there will always be more to learn. It is for that exact reason I am asking questions about the diagnostic process for adults. MS was the trigger on here for me to respond. I dont get her diagnosis. Its not the same as my son, because he is very very obvious. So, its all about learning by asking probing questions. If you dont understand, do not you ask people? You could argue as someone else did that its not the right place. Ok, maybe. But why am I asking, and what am I looking for? I can honestly say, it is not to antagonise you or anyone else. I dont understand why someone like MS (with seemingly exceptional social/communication skills) is able to get a diagnosis. It raises all sorts of questions in my mind. Some people have been helpful on here by pointing towards resources on "masking". You have just confirmed that "autistic traits" is also an actual thing. And there are other useful replies that have helped me learn more. But at no point have I criticised anyone, called anyone mean names etc. There is no need for that. You do not know me. Anyway, I will leave it at that. Once again, sorry to upset you or anyone else. I wish you all the best , and I mean that genuinely, even if you dont believe me ;-)

I have not stated anything as fact. I have openly said I am here to learn. I have openly said I come from a biased and limited perspective. I do appreciate that is is a sensative subject and I can see how some people may think I am trying to provoke a reaction. I really honestly do not want to upset anyone!!! Maybe you are right that it is not the best place to have this conversation. Point taken. But I have already learned a great deal from taking on some of the information people have shared with me here. I am happy to admit if I have incorrectly assumed something and get something wrong. I do not know the answers. But they only way to help with that is to share your own knowledge with me. Counter any assumptions you think I have made. But you have not done that, you have just came on and said you find my questioning offensive and should take them elsewhere. I was suggest essentiall telling me to shut up and bugger of is more offensive than me sharing my doubts over the diagnostic process, especially when I have not stated anything as fact. If you read carefully, I am actually in some ways looking for reassurance that the diagnostic process is actually more robust than I fear it is. I am open to listening to what you or anyone has to say. I am genuinely looking for answers, not to offend and not to argue. Please believe me :-)

Why do you say I have been impolite or direspectful? Are you just basing this on me casting doubt over the diagnostic process, or is it because I have said I do not understand MS diagnosis? Either way, I asked if anyone could help me understand the process better. I certainly will be speaking to professionals but I felt it was very important to get an idea of peoples lived experience. I was aware that it may be on the knuckle as you say, and I am sorry to upset anyone but I need ask this question. I think it is useful for the autistic community to have these conversations. If you shut down every question that offends people, noone will learning anything from each other. I value what experience and knowledge you may wish to genuinely share with me. If you just come on and say I dont like what you asked, take your question elsewhere, its not healthy for anyone. Clearly it is sensative subject but it is not in anyway meant to be personal to anyone. Not everyone has repsonded to me in the same way. Some people have been very helpful. But I appreciate it is a sensative subject. Sorry again if I have upset you :-)

ConsciousBadger suggested you debate the elements of the diagnostic criteria with the people who do the assessments, not the people being diagnosed. 

You also said yourself that you haven't been diagnosed, therefore whether you self identify or not (which you also said you dont), you haven't experienced adult assessment. 

For your information as well, an outcome of an autism assessment can be to have autistic traits but to not meet the full criteria sufficiently. My friend's son had this result from their assessment. 

I just find you extremely unpleasant to speak to. I do not use "troll" as an insult but as an observation of your contribution to this forum. To say you don't understand something therefore you doubt the validity of something that is so personal to people is rude and insensitive. No doubt you wouldn't respect the same approach to your son's diagnosis. 

Your individual diagnosis is not up for debate, I completely agree! The diagnostic process is already and has been for some time a matter of debate. Whether you like it or not, it is not a debate that will go away. Stop taking things personally. Do you mind if I ask a personal question, do you have a daignosis?

How do you know I am not a doctor? How do you know I am not autistic?

I did not question your diagnosis. Please point to where exactly I questioned your personal diagnosis? How am I debating with the people who diagnose others? Noone has responded to me and said , yeah I daignose people and I have in turn slated them. I have given rise to questions over the diagnostic process. I have not questioned yours or anyone on heres individual diagnosis. I have said I do not understand MS diagnosis. I have not said MS is not autistic. I have asked how it is possible based on what I know. I have asked people to share their understanding and have thanked everyone who has provided information to help me. When you dont like the line of questioning, your response is to shut it down or resort to insults such calling me a "troll". 

Wait until you find out there are autistic doctors too. You are going to combust with the confusion.

Our diagnosis isn't really up for debate though. Debate is a two way process and I certainly don't want to be drawn into a debate about whether I am or aren't actually autistic. For many people on this forum, it took 2+ years to wait for their assessment and diagnosis. 

To claim to be offended because someone has suggested to debate with the people who diagnose others is outright ridiculous. No wonder I think you are a troll. You are behaving like one! 

No problem :) I am a complete mess now emotionally and the mind fog i awaklad fget iws now comign down so i ned to step awya.

Thank you for being supportive and putting this more eloquently than I was able to. 

It really isn't the place to be questioning the validity of the diagnosis we have received, certainly not by someone who has never been through that experience themselves or has any awareness of adult assessment. 

I am certainly not saying get off this forum. Please re-read what I have said.

Nor am I questioning your motives. I am suggesting that based on your stated motives you will surely learn more from speaking to experts in the profession. You might learn something from speaking to some people who live and suffer with ASD but surely you can see that the line of your questioning is a bit on the knuckle and - as clearly shown on this thread - liable to insult and offend unless done very carefully. The proof is in the pudding on this one because you have upset people.

I disagree that you have been polite and respectful on this thread.

How exactly have I insulted you?

Very helpful. Many thanks :-)

I guess it l need to read up on masking but inevitably, it does lead to the question of how one can confirm masking.

Camouflaging or masking refers to strategies that individuals with ASD use to mask social difficulties and enable them to “pass” as non-autistic in social situations (Hull et al., 2017; Livingston et al., 2020). Camouflaging consists of complex copying behaviours, compensation, and/or masking of some personality traits or autistic characteristics, with an adaptive purpose that promotes functioning in response to specific environmental or situational demands (Hull et al., 2019; Tubío-Fungueiriño et al., 2020). Examples of camouflaging include mimicking facial expressions of a conversation partner, forcing oneself to make eye contact or stop talking about a specific interest, and using social scripts in everyday interactions.

https://intercommunityaction.org/camouflaging-masking-in-autism-spectrum-disorder/

“Putting on My Best Normal”: Social Camouflaging in Adults with Autism Spectrum Conditions

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5509825/

How to spot SEND pupils who are 'social masking': As a teacher, you can identify this key character trait in girls with autism spectrum disorder

https://www.tes.com/news/how-spot-send-pupils-who-are-social-masking

Autism Masking: To Blend or Not to Blend

https://www.healthline.com/health/autism/autism-masking

Social camouflaging in autism: Is it time to lose the mask?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1362361319878559

Is Autistic Camouflaging Really Bad for Your Health? The true impact of masking in women with autism.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/women-autism-spectrum-disorder/202010/is-autistic-camouflaging-really-bad-your-health

Hi, thanks for your reply, I think I know what you are saying. Have you managed to find any tricks to help support you in these situations? Cheers :-)

I think so but I dont know. No worries, I need to get one with things too. Have a nice day :-)

I do not like your tone. So basically you are saying you dont like my line of questions and you dont trust my motivations for asking them, and so I should shut up and get off the forum. Who are you to say who should and should not ask questions, and where they should be asked and to whom? I dont know if this forum is necessarily the best place but I would have thought speaking to as many people who either have autism, are learning about autism or support someone with autism, would be a very good starting place to learn?At every point in my questions, I have been polite and respectuful. Can you say the same by the manner of your post? Not everyone will like or agree with everyone, but is it not more harmful to shut down debate? That is basically what you are telling me to do. I have emphasised I do not wish to argue or upset anyone. Just because you dont like my line of questioning, does not give you or anyone the right to insult me. 

Do we need to distinguish autistic traits from actual autism?

I think this is what an autism diagnosis does. 

Short reply but I'm going out now. Might elaborate later.

someone who gets by/gets pass marks for social and communication skills

Long before Autism was in my vocabulary I took on a posting as an instructor because I knew my social skills were crap.  I thought if I was an instructor it would enable my social skills.  In the classroom, great I could talk and be as sociable as you like, once i left my brain clammed up and I was back in the same situation where by brain simply could not think of a single thing to say

Fair enough, I cant really disagree with anything you have said to be honest.

I totally understand that such difficulties are not always outwardly visible but this is not someone who gets by/gets pass marks for social and communication skills; she actually outwardly excells in these key diagnostic areas. 

In terms of masking, I I have not read up on it, and I am open to accept this may explain the discrepancies.  I can appreciate it using a slightly different example of demential patients, some of whom are able to mask their memory other  issues. I have seen this first hand. However, after spending enough time with these patients, we start to see beyond the surface layers of early impressions. So yeah, I guess this could be a similar process that explains MS diagnosis.

I guess it l need to read up on masking but inevitably, it does lead to the question of how one can confirm masking. I dont think this is easy. Medical conditions of any type are generally never one size fits all, so this compelxity is not unique to autism. But autism is clearly a very very complex subject, which is why I am on here trying to pick peoples brains. 

A diagnosis of any sort, as far as I am aware, relies on both signs and symptoms. Signs are always outwardly observable and symptoms are those which a patient experiences and reports. If a patient does not report symptoms, they will go unrecognised,unless they also have signs which leads others to enquire more about those inward symptoms.  In either case, clinicians like to measure both signs and symptoms, usually on a scale that describes the extent of any condition. This is done not just for the sake of labeling but to ensure the right support is given at the right time to the right person. 

I quess the difficulty with diagnosing someone who has no outward objective measurable way of confirming any signs of autism, is that we are relying purely on their subjective symptoms. It is not to say those experiences are any less real, or that they are not genuinely suffering. For example, many people experience functional disorders, i.e. there are no structural or physiological issue that can be picked up by any measurable tests, but the person still experiences pain or another difficulties. So for example, many people experience back pain, and think there issue is so severe that they stop doing many of their usual activities. Yet when thoroughly tested, scans, bloods, physio assessment etc, there is no physical problem. The pain is considered to be linked to the psychology of the person. Their experience of pain is real, but they do not merit any diagnosis of having any physical issue with their back. My question is perhaps many people feel they have autistic traits and believe this limits them to do certain things but does it necessarily mean they actually have autism? Do we need to distinguish autistic traits from actual autism? I dont know, its just a question. I just think that basing any medical diagnosis purely on subjective symptoms creates challenges in having any real confidence in confirming those diagnosis. 

Sorry, my comments are a bit long winded. But yeah, I do worry that the diagnostic criteria is becoming overly subjective, and how this may impact provision of support. I agree that not everyone will need the same level of support and that this may not correlate perfectly with traditionally "high" and "low" definitions. There is a lot of complexity. I was aware Paddy had children on the spectrum and I'lll check it out thanks.

Anyway, thank you very much again for your input. It is always good to learn about other peoples experiences, especially when they are different to my own biased perspectives. Best wishes :-)