Undiagnosed autism

What are your husband's goals?

If he has no independence and is treated like a child if he makes a mistake, what is he supposed to do to feel valuable?

I totally understand the Aspie need to have everything controllable and predictable, so how do you deal with your children's unpredictability?

You are right about me treating him like a child and I agree I need help to stop that. If we hadn't had a child I would have left long ago but really I suspect the problem is that we didn't have effective counselling sooner.

My children have been a huge challenge and I am not a natural parent but I have never been their main carer. Of course they are hugely rewarding and I am relieved to find that they all seem pretty stable.

As you're so driven in your business and in control of everything, do you think you are able to accept people around you as equals or do you need them to be under control too? Kids are controllable to some extent but adults have their own, valid ideas of what is right or wrong.

Bringing up kids is a 20+ year big diversion from looking at the way you do things - so I have to ask - can you be bothered with having people close to you or do they invade into your rigid world too much? Are you able to allow a certain amount of behavioural variability and unpredictablity that close to yourself?

I've been married 28 years - I'm very Aspergers, my wife is very NT. We both have strengths and weaknesses - I do all the technical, low emotion stuff working towards our long-term plans - she does the immediate stuff and the emotional interaction stuff - like dealing with people (I'm hopeless with telephone conversations and very poor at dealing with people who could be manipulating me).

We've managed to bring up a perfectly well balanced child.

Our end game is to be able to retire & downsize where neither of us has to work - ASAP- so we can both do the things that interest us in a lower stress environment.

Plastic said:

A bit like the Model Engineering Show at Alexandra Palace.

Mmmm.... Lathes and milling machines, if only I had the space!

Plastic said:

I think she's actually a robot. There's nothing human about her.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/.../may-goes-in-for-upgrade-20170831134900

No - we just laugh at the brain surgeons.

I bet rocket scientists get sick of all the jokes...

It is so interesting -all these things that unite us.

We have tons of Lego - I got offered a job in Legoland, we do ComicCon twice a year, I build large models and we go to Disney Florida every year. I'm a nuclear physicist and used to be a rocket scientist. Spot the Aspie.....

Or Legoland-where they have special training because of the hordes of Aspies descending on the model village!

Yes re Theresa but I do think that her woodeness and inflexibility is due to AS. So really we are being plunged into chaos because of her concrete thinking.(Sorry probably not supposed to get political)

NAS50581 said:

I accidentally kissed a male friend on the lips and that led to an excruciatingly embarassing pass at me.

Awkward.....I've managed to avoid that so far.

NAS50581 said:

Star Wars- I hadn't even realised that was an Aspie thing.

Take a trip to any ComicCon - it's like a NAS convention. A bit like the Model Engineering Show at Alexandra Palace.

I think she's actually a robot. There's nothing human about her.

And BTW has anyone noticed that Theresa May is one of us!

I know WTF did we become French?! I do exactly the same thing by way of desperately avoiding the hugs and kisses but if I do get hugged I get it completely wrong and men think I am coming onto them. I accidentally kissed a male friend on the lips and that led to an excruciatingly embarassing pass at me. Strangely my husband is really good at the social kissing thing which is probably the main reason I didn't spot his Aspie nature. 

Star Wars- I hadn't even realised that was an Aspie thing. My son became totally obsessed from about 7 years old and was so devastated when Disney took over that he went into a decline. 'George Lucas has betrayed us...' Before that it was Dr. Who. Of course they are aspie- The sequences, the complexity. Why did I not spot these things!?

Oh naaasty. I am O.k with handshakes in a professional situation and that is good as I regularly shake hands with the most unsavoury people. But in a social situation it is much more tricky.

I hate all the social hugging & random kissing - other people seem good at it and instinctively know what to do - I don't like being hugged by people I hardly know. And the kissing - yes, no, one cheek or both?

And now they seem to be trying to import the concept of man-hugging. Errrr, no. Too complicated.

In social settings, I sit on the far side of the table so people turning up are all hugged-out before they get to me - a smile and wave from a distance is acceptable then.

When I get overloaded in social events, I've perfected the 'paying attention' mode so women seem to think of me as a good listener of all their problems. NT men of my age seem to be a sad bunch of desperate males vying for their attention, so my 'nice' non-threatening mask seems a very attractive alternative for the single women.

In reality, I've shut down because of the noise and over-stimulus - the lights are on but I'm replaying Star Wars in my head while redesigning the kitchen while thinking about going on holiday.

My wife says it's hilarious watching them flirt with me - I just don't spot it so I seem to be a nice-guy challenge for them.

I wouldn't do social kissing.  I've lost friends over an in-ability to do social hugging correctly, hand shakes should be firm but not hand-crushing.  Make sure you carry wet-wipes for the situations where you get a "drip" handshake and feel physically violated from it.

Well I am glad you think so!  I have started to lose confidence in my ability to tell when he is being unreasonable.Yes that made me laugh about the phonecall. I am just the same but it is a strength too. People find my directness refreshing in the legal world where frequently people don't use one word where 10 would do! I am brief to a fault and cannot stand all the padding people go in for. I am very bad at hiding my boredom and irritation however.

Strangely I am pretty emotionally literate and I generally read non-verbal stuff well -I think Aspie women are often different to men there. Of course that comes from years of people watching in an attempt to mirror which often fails miserably.

One thing I would love to know : How do other Aspies deal with the nightmare of social kissing, hugging and even shaking hands. I honestly dread social occasions because of it and inevitably have to have several drinks before I leave the house just to cope with it, I am trying not to drink this year though but that is the one thing that might tip me back off the wagon!

When kids are small, they are data vacuums - learning to read, learning to draw etc. - when they get to about 7, they develop sophisticated emotions and test them on people during conversation - I don't really recognise emotions so there was a communication mis-match - so I got frustrated and she got upset with daddy.

Internally, i'm still 16 so I have to work very hard at pretending to be a grown up - as time goes on, NTs get more worldly - especially women (men get simpler) - so it takes an immense amount of my brain processing not to look too gauche.

It's very hard work and it gets harder with age.

I'm terrible on the phone - too many things to juggle in my head - mistakes will happen.

My phonecalls to my daughter last on average 7 seconds - she calls - I answer - she needs picking up - I say ok, see you in a few minutes - end.

It's easier to communicate via e-mail - you can include pictures too

.

The finances divided by 3 is a very teenage thing to say and a very simplisitic way of looking at responsibilities.

I have now told him that I think he has AS but he felt quite threatened and criticised so I haven't pursued it but he did say he would discuss it with our counselor if it came up so I intend to make sure it does come up! He is hypersensitive to criticism anyway and is likely to find it very challenging if the counselor tries to point out that he may bear some responsibility for our problems. 

In any event I am finding this very cathartic -although I feel a little guilty talking behind his back!

You say you had problems when your daughter started growing up. Can I ask what you found difficult? I find 1:1 conversation really difficult with anyone ( but I am absolutely fine in groups.) I therefore find being alone with one of my children (and to some extent my husband) really quite difficult and now my daughter is at uni I am starting to dread the weekly phonecall as I am rubbish on the phone anyway and can't think of anything to say.

I never noticed this inability to be with someone 1:1 when I was younger and also I used to talk to my friends on the phone for hours. I wonder whether AS symptoms tend to get worse as you get older?

Yes! Just the realisation of his AS makes me feel so much more tolerant and compassionate. e.g a recent annoying thing was his asking to work 4 days a week instead of 5 to pursue other interests (not financially beneficial) When I argued that this was unfair as I work 6 and sometimes 7 day weeks he pointed out that he only has 1/3 of responsibility for our family outgoings as only one of the three children is his! This annoyed/upset me deeply at the time but now I can see that it is a typically Aspie attitude. 

Do your children know about your diagnosis and do they recognise it in your husband? As soon as I realised I has AS I told my children and they think it is funny (but not in a nasty way) It helps to explain the odd things I do like jumping around / hand flapping if I forget that I am not alone! 

He sounds very AS - I was lucky - I'm a twin so I had a functioning version to copy (and measure) 24/7 so I learnt to 'fit in'. In my measuring of NTs, I spotted how half-azzed most of their actions are so from an early age I noticed I was different so I took steps to mask myself and appear 'normal'. This worked very well until our daughter was growing up.

Can you not be blunt with him and say he seems to have all the hallmarks of AS and the problems you are having are not difficult to solve - with honesty and communication and openness to come up with a workable plan to go forward?

Then maybe explain what AS behaviours are typical and not too helpful to a relationship. Trying to get a dialogue going with him may be tricky if he doesn't understand his deficiencies.

Blaming the autism not each other is a good idea. I feel much greater compassion towards my husband when I realise (just like me) he really struggles with certain things, he is not being awkward! 

Blaming the autism not each other is a good idea. I feel much greater compassion towards my husband when I realise (just like me) he really struggles with certain things, he is not being awkward! 

Yes, press the reset button whilst I am there.  He has a funny sense of humour.  I wonder if I could get one made online? lol

NAS50673 said:

Next time, I will have to just have to say and factor a little book in

Haynes manual - based on complete strip-down and rebuild :-D.

Ahh yes, that is true. I want this to work, or I will never leave to live with him. total relocation!

Start with your handbook first - to give a clue of how to do it - a blueprint if you like - and what he might include if he did one of his own for you.

The picture made me laugh.  So true.   How would it work if I asked him to to the same I wonder.   That would help  me too. find a compromise.  

He will be very grateful to have the inside track on making you happy. Just let him know it's to help him to remove stress from the relationship.

Yes, that would be a great idea.  I will try that when the focus is on me and he is concerned that he isnt paying me enough attention.  I should stop brushing it off.  I do because he looks pained.  Next time, I will have to just have to say and factor a little book in.  Thanks.  

Chats run the risk of turning into arguements and you can also miss out or forget important parts - or fail to get the real meaning across without hurting his feelings.

A well thought out written 'handbook' for maintaining you will make things so much simpler for him.

We dont email, he has no idea how I am feeling, so I wouldnt want to shock him lol  But yes, that would be a good idea for when we hit a rough patch, as relationships always have to.. He knows me as a person, my habits and calls me sensitive, but doesn't get to the point where he gets my needs.  So that will help.  I am rubbish at stating them though, so It's when I have and it's ignored that is foreign to me. 

Yeah, we have chats about what we like about eachother.. he follows my suit and adds some endearing ones, but just doesnt say it any other time.  Have to prompt and yes, it would be mcd or an ice cream. LOL   It is all very helpful, thank you.    His son is mid diagnosis at the moment,  so I have been tempted to say, do you not see traits in yourself.. he really doesnt own up to it, or oblivious.  But oblivious and indifferent is how it comes across.  

Yes, you are, less ruminating for sure! 

Why not write him an e-mail outlining all the things you would like so he's got a solid copy that he can refer to and work from - give him a clue - if he doesn't pick up on the cues and feelings then he cannot change.

Include all the things like flowers occasionally, trips out for meals - give him a short list of places you like so he doesn't surprise you with McD. Let him know what you like about him - keep it all very positive so he thinks he'll be icing the cake rather than a list of gripes.

You might need to be very specific about your likes so he can feel he's on solid ground with you. The more vague you are, the more unsure he will be so he'll worry and won't know what to do to make things better. Confusion will cause problems.

Men are MUCH simpler than women think.

I agree, I am so easy going, that I feel I have facilitating things, but as there a log of things going on behind the scenes, it seems, when he has a crisis, I am there to listen (being very empathetic) but it's not returned, its rationalised. LOL   I have prompted him a bit this week and he did not compute, but apologised if things made me feel a certain way.   I understand that he just doesnt get some things.

He does worry that the fact that he cannot juggle things means I get the raw end of the deal and that he tucks me away to cope with the distance.  I asked him not to.  I dont think that is easily changed though.  He hates routine changes that I make as well, throws him off. 

If I am fretting about our relationship, he thinks that a "dont worry" will solve it.  And he works on timelines too.. just a few things he let slip about our relationship.  We can talk about things when he feels insecure I think, then he asks questions and we have a good chat, then it's parked.  

He is amazing, I love his quirks.. I just sometimes need more and its purely because it's not coming natural to him or on his radar. 

Could be - it may be that your responses give him the impression he's doing all the right things - so why would he change? You might need to prompt him with what he could do to make you happier - he may never think of it himself.

Add in a long distance relationship and a life long condition too.  everything seems to be scheduled and I have to work around him. I have raised it by being direct, it is very much, two steps forward and one back.    I think I need to get some counselling or advice, and this is how I have arrived here with you lot, hoping to gain some understanding.  I am a total empath, so I am up the other end of the scale.  He does show extremes of emotion, and they are so endearing.  We have never argued, I sort of understand him.  My son and brother definitely have traits too.  I sort of feel that our initial courting phase was scripted now as he seems to have lost the ability to woo. I get the same texts morning and night, still scripted.   He is really affectionate and loving when we are together though. Is it enough, who knows, but he has no idea, or if he does then he isn't telling me.   I miss going out, he doesn't like social situations and he has a very small circle of friends.  So intelligent too.   

Does he sound on the spectrum peeps?  I would be grateful for any ideas on how to get him to open up a bit...  or you can tell me to just to accept?  Thanks.

Do you think a diagnosis will wake him up enough to realise what he's doing? Will he curl up into a ball and go downhill or will there be a realisation of his impact upon everyone around him?

I was doing military, space hardware, nuclear and radio-pharmaceuticals - so many lovely specifications & standards to adhere to.

Where would we be if there were no rules? France.

Where would we be if there were too many rules? Gremany.

Yes and of course it is great as a lawyer- all the rule based stuff and it being a virtue to inflexibly cling to being RIGHT!

How do you manage phonecalls and being alone with your children / grandchildren? 

Oh I can totally relate to this and I would sound a note of caution. I made allowances too and for years I thought we were soul mates and I could tolerate the difficult behaviour. 15 years in fact - always thinking he would change but not realising that he absolutely couldn't. In the end it is my husband who has become so furious with my constant criticism that he has said our marriage is over ( although we are hoping it can be saved with counselling) He takes no responsibility for his conduct and never has .It is exhausting and the loved up feeling only lasts so long so if I were starting out I would suggest counselling at a much earlier stage .Sorry to be gloomy. It is difficult ( but not impossible) to be happy when you know that your feelings are not important to your life partner.

My children both live with partners now - they are 31 and 29. I love seeing them but it is all too rare these days as we have such busy lives.

My son is here for the weekend getting respite from his 3 year old daughter who is at stage of asking multiple why questions!

Both my children are probably autistic - my son wants to get assessed but my daughter doesn't. She has an autism friendly lifestyle and no significant problems. My son, like me, is an overthinker, tremendously work focused, and often exhausted. 

By getting a diagnosis much earlier than I did I hope my son will have an easier path through life. I've had an incredibly interesting time, but it has sometimes been a struggle to survive. 

I had to clear my husband out of our tiny kitchen yesterday - he was lurking while I tried to ice a cake. Just at the most inconvenient time he decided to come in and make a coffee. 

I'm very aware that I am exacting to live with. I sometimes think it would be better for my husband if I worked away during the week and just came home at weekends. 

NAS50581 said:

of course, the Aspie part of me needs to be right about this so I would find it difficult not to pursue it.

Aaah - the old 'must convert unknowns into facts' behaviour so typical of us all. Unknown = stress.

NAS50581 said:

Personally I find the Aspie thing is an asset

Me too - it has given me abilities so far ahead of NTs. My eidetic memory was a real boon in the jobs I've done.

I really don't think I would be satisfied being normal.