Forced to leave Uni

Thank you for the sympathy and good wishes James, I really do appreciate your kindness. 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I absolutely agree - I am concerned that we could challenge the decision and possibly win due to procedural oversights by the Uni, but then my child might feel an even greater pressure to be “successful “ which would make it even more difficult for them to admit to anyone if they were struggling. 
At the moment, they say they still want the Cambridge place but that is all they have known of university. They might find that they have a more balanced, happier life elsewhere if they gave that a chance. 

Hi, I have also just tried to figure out how to message and I think we need to send each other a friend request so I have now sent you one. Hopefully we'll be able to message once you have accepted it :). 

then their position is fairly untenable isn't it? If he can study elsewhere (with reasonable adjusments) then he can study at cambridge. That's tantamount to admiting they won't make reasonable adjustments.

Thanks Peter. We are taking the first step of going through the uni complaints process. If that’s not fruitful, it’s good to know about the legal services directory. 
I am trying to limit the amount of detail disclosed here to respect my child’s confidentiality, but can say this is definitely a fitness to study rather than disciplinary situation. 

Thanks Iain, I appreciate your advice. 
I wont go further into details here for now but it has done me so much good just to be able to talk about this and receive sympathetic and practical responses. 

Thanks Ann, this is all really helpful. I would like to take up your offer of messaging you privately, but I can’t seem to work out how to do so on here! Do I need to send you a friend request? 

I had the same experience as well, not at Cambridge, but at University of Liverpool and Liverpool Hope that’s scarred me, contributing to my complex PTSD, now I can’t return to education at all, not just because of the sociological elements, but from the ableism and transphobia suffered by the staff!!

I think the most important question is what environment would best enable your child to maximise their potential and find happiness. This requires total honesty about what your child is capable of at the moment, even with the level of reasonable adjustments that you think could be secured. Not an easy task, as I did not know myself well enough at that age to be able to come up with the correct answer.

I studied at the University of Oxford and had to take a year out due to illness before completing my third year. In hindsight, it was simply the wrong place for me at that time in my life. There were undoubtedly some positives and it looks great on one's CV, but the level of expectation, the intensity of the 8-week terms, the suffocating atmosphere of the city, and being surrounded by almost universally hyperconfident people was problematic. My memories of that time are largely negative. I was much happier studying for a masters degree at the University of Sheffield, which may partly have been due to being that bit older, but also it was a much nicer city, the nature of the course suited me better, and I had far more in common with the other students. Oxbridge is not automatically better, it is just one of many options, and if it is not the right choice for one's individual circumstances and personality then it may cause more harm than good.

Is the battle with the university one that is worth winning? If it is, then good luck.

exactly. It sounds like they are trying to off load a 'problem student.' Often it's because they aknoledge that the student is abe to compleate university with resonable adjusments but they don't want to be the ones to make those adjusments.

This is awful. I'm very sorry.

I'm going to do my best to be objective about this. Full disclosure: I spent one year at Cambridge University before dropping out. It was the most miserable experience of my life. But that was 40 years ago, and I would hope that the levels of support available to students in mental health situations might have improved considerably since then. As Ann :) says in their comment, it sounds like they have.

It sounds like the University are saying that your child has done something which means that they have to leave Cambridge University, but that the University will nevertheless assist them to find a place elsewhere - i.e. that whatever your child has done, it is not sufficient to get them excluded from every university in the country. This sounds a bit disingenuous. It may mean that there are still avenues for appeal. Good luck.

Iain said:

Lastly I would ask for a detailed note on why they forced you child out. It is possible there is some other situation that you may not have been made aware of which may not be related to the autism (eg getting into a fight). I'm not saying this is the case but I have seen a lot of cases of people trying to use their autism as an excuse for plain bad behaviour and it would be wise to rule this out.

A valid excuse in some situations as well though. I'm readding between the lines but I think this is more likely a disaplinory not a fitness to study situation. The fact they've sugested he leaves before he is pushed sugests to me they think on some level the issue arose out of miscomunication or some other autism related issue, not malice.

It's also likely to undermine their argument if they try to defende a section 15 (discrimination arising from disability) tort. Basicly if you are saying this student could sucessfully do a course at another uni if resonable adjustments were made it undermines your desision to kick him out at your university for something caused by his autism (even if it was a disaplinory infraction). That's some what hypothetical / speculative though. After all we don't know the details of this case.

But the thing everyone gets wrong about section 15 is justification speaks to the future not the past. you can't say 'I don't care if it happened because he's disableled, what he did was really bad.' but you can say 'even if it happened because he was disabeled we can't stop it from happening again if he stays.'

Hi, I am so sorry this has happened to your son. It doesn't sound right at all. I did my undergraduate and MPhil in Cambridge, briefly worked in a lab there and am now doing a PhD in Cambridge. I am also autistic. I know the system in Cambridge and have had some very positive and some quite negative experiences too (including with intermission). 

I've read the comments below- so do I understand correctly that they forced your son to withdraw and said that otherwise they would invoke a 'Fitness to Study' procedure?  

I think it would be a good idea to also contact the student advice service from Cambridge. This is a service which is independent of the university which offers confidential advice and can help your son explore his options. I've had very good experiences with this service and it might be worth to set up a meeting with them as they are familiar with all the regulations specific to Cambridge. Here is the link https://www.cambridgesu.co.uk/advice/student-advice-service/ 

Also, did your son have a student support document in place? Has he been in touch with the ADRC? Is his disability and/or autism advisor aware of the situation? I initially only had a disability advisor but they do also have specialised autism advisors. What kind of support has the university put into place for him? Have they made reasonable adjustments? Also does your son have a mentor from the ADRC? 

I am also puzzled that they forced your son to withdraw rather than at least suggesting he take an intermission with a view to resuming his studies again at a later point? Who made this decision? Was it the college (ie senior tutor and/or director of studies)? 

I am really saddened by this situation. Because Cambridge can be a really autism friendly environment but the university does need to do it's part to make it work. And they should be doing more to support your son (from what I can tell)- in terms of saying 'he should have asked for more help', that is also unfair. For example, I have a mentor as I am autistic whom I can regularly meet and she for example also makes sure I am fine and has been making sure that I access additional support if necessary. 

The university also has a counselling service but this may not be specialised enough for an autistic student, in which case the university also ways for students to apply for funding for autism-specific counselling. https://www.cambridgestudents.cam.ac.uk/fees-and-funding/financial-assistance/crane-fund 

I have recently started counselling with a therapist who works almost only with neurodivergent individuals (and is late diagnosed autistic himself) and I am hopeful this might help- I've had many negative experiences with counselling in the past but this feels different- it really helps when the counsellor is neurodivergent themself. 

I really hope you can find a way forward out of this situation. It must be devastating for your son when he has been trying so hard to make it work, has not been given adequate support and has now been rejected by the university. It doesn't sound like the university has done enough to support your son. 

I would start off by contacting the student advice service (and possibly also get legal advice). 

You are also welcome to message me privately if you prefer. I am happy to share any inside knowledge about Cambridge that I have if it helps! 

Get a lawyer. I can't stress that strongly enough. I know its very out of date but the NAS services directory has a list

You could also look for direct acess baristers with expertees in disability law. The advantages of direct acess is that you can effectivly pay as you go for the legal advice you need and handel a lot of the negotiation with the university directly if you prefer that (it is cheaper I think)

NAS92890 said:

basically, resign or get fired.

Since the uni had prior knowledge of the disability, did they execute their duty of care to make the course accessible in the way that your child needed?

If there is any reasonable indication of this being failed then it is time to gather evidence and lawyer up.

If they did provide this but your child struggled and couldn't keep up, then the uni does not have a duty to pick them up, encourage them on and pull them through - the uni does need to provide a degree of support but understanding what is their responsibility and what is unfortunately a lack of ability to cope from your childs side will be crucial in establishing if there is any blame.

NAS92890 said:

It’s very hard to support them at the moment and I feel like I’m doing it alone.

Let your child know you are there for them and you will support them - this is what they need to hear to know they are not alone.

You have the community here who can help on specific questions so don't be afraid to ask.

NAS92890 said:

Nobody else except their dad knows what has just happened and he is a brilliant dad in other ways but can’t deal with anything remotely emotional. 

Maybe don't refer it to your husband as an emotional support issue. Let them know your child needs help with the practical, process oriented parts of this situation and his support will help them too.

If he does not do the "soft skills" part well then let him deal with the uni, a lawyer etc - solid practical tasks he is probably suited to.

He may want to move out of his comfort zone for your child too - you won't know until you ask, but is sounds like the approach needs to be tailored to his predisposition.

Just remember to thank him sincerely when he does offer to help (as I think he will) and appreciate that it may well come at a cost for him emotionally. Let him know you know this. He will probably appreciate the empathy.

If he can't deal with it then keep the focus on practical issues and don't push further - any help will be useful.

Are there other life changing issues going on with your child at the same time which may play a part here? I notice you use they/them pronouns so if they are going through issues with identity then this can be a tremedous distraction to their studies too.

No need to respond to this if you do not want to of course - I just thought it may be a complicating factor.

Thanks. 
yes they have an autism diagnosis, got it while in year 13 and applied for DSA with their student finance application. 
I attended the meeting at which my child was told they either had to withdraw from their course, in which case the Uni would help them find a place on a course elsewhere from September, or the matter would go to a committee where the very likely outcome would be that they would be kicked out with no further support. So basically, resign or get fired. 

my child has found their course difficult- the pressure at Cambridge is immense - but they really felt they had turned a corner this year and I had seen how much more positive they were feeling. 
Their biggest struggle is with communication and it seems this is what the current situation comes down to. a lot of the support available at Uni requires the student to reach out and ask for it, which is such a barrier for my child. 

I am actively looking for a therapist for them at the moment  - I hope we can find the right person for them.

It’s very hard to support them at the moment and I feel like I’m doing it alone. Nobody else except their dad knows what has just happened and he is a brilliant dad in other ways but can’t deal with anything remotely emotional. 

NAS92890 said:

They were told they should have asked for more help but their ASD makes reaching out to strangers for help almost impossible. 

First question - does the person in question in question have a diagnosis of autism? If so, was it diagnosed on their application to uni?

If it is no to both then they are not going to have a leg to stand on as they were not identified as being disabled and hence no special treatment would have been expected.

If the uni did know then I would ask them to supply their guidelines on the support offered to autistic students and find where they failed to supply this.

Lastly I would ask for a detailed note on why they forced you child out. It is possible there is some other situation that you may not have been made aware of which may not be related to the autism (eg getting into a fight). I'm not saying this is the case but I have seen a lot of cases of people trying to use their autism as an excuse for plain bad behaviour and it would be wise to rule this out.

Once you have a reasonable understanding of what has actually happened then you can made a more informed decision on whether to get litigious about it.

In the meantime I would consider getting your child into seeing a therapist to work on their issues - just make sure the therapist has experience of working with autistic patients. This should give your child a safe space to work through whatever is going on and hopefully guide them to resolving the issues and building their life in the post education world.