Depression and possible Autism/Aspergers

http://www.cosrt.org.uk/

https://sexualadviceassociation.co.uk/

To necro a thread which is more relevant to my problems and less explicit: I have had problems with confused sexuality, might be ace, unclear gender preference, other issues. However I'm not sure whether we're allowed to discuss sexuality here at all - isn't it "sexually orientated" and forbidden? Alex R - mod? Probably something for "The Grey Area" on asexuality.org, I find that tricky because I might not be entirely ace and get anxious about that.

Sadly I'm only posting in a personal capacity; I've got no easy way of making such a thing 'official'. There's already an Autism Awareness Day, which serves this sort of purpose for people on the spectrum specifically, and the NAS does do events for it.

Alex R

How would we get awareness and support for something like that, to make it official?

(I could advertise it on my FB page: www.facebook.com/PlanetOughtism)

IntenseWorld said:

When you say "judge" I take that literally, I'm not being judgemental, it's just something I wondered.  No-one can be inside another person's head and know their reasons for things.

I had no idea there was a Bisexual Visibility Day!

Maybe we should start up an invisible disability day for people on the spectrum.

Oh, quite - by 'judge' I mean 'evaluate' or 'guess' rather than 'condemn'.

As someone with an invisible disability myself, I'd be a fan of your plan.

Alex R

When you say "judge" I take that literally, I'm not being judgemental, it's just something I wondered.  No-one can be inside another person's head and know their reasons for things.

I had no idea there was a Bisexual Visibility Day!

Maybe we should start up an invisible disability day for people on the spectrum.

IntenseWorld said:

I have a relative who is gay.  She is one of twins (non-identical) and she hung around a lot with her twin's gay circle of friends and acquaintances, almost like it was a novelty.  Through that, she ended up also having a gay relationship.  I was gobsmacked as everything about her seemed really straight, whereas the other twin was clearly gay.  This gay relationship was quite long-lasting, but she maintained she was attracted to men.  In the end she went back to dating men and recently got married.  I really don't think she is bixsexual, as she had never, ever talked about being attracted to other women.  As far as I know she's not on the spectrum but she is really similar to me and has high anxiety, so could possible have Asperger's.

Well, it's not for us to judge who is or isn't gay, bisexual, or whatever - these are a matter of personal experience and identification. But it's not unknown for an otherwise straight person to have a one-off same-sex relationship (or vice versa). Some people who do this come to identify themselves as bisexual, and some don't. It's very hard to make any general judgement about such matters.

Today is Bisexual Visibility Day, by the way - so I'm entertained that this discussion has taken this turn.

Alex R

I don't think my message was explicit enough.  Re-reading it, I can see why you read it the way you did Alex R - Mod.  I don't mean disappointing experiences as in, going out with someone and finding it doesn't feel right because of not being attracted to the opposite gender, I mean as in, having a bad relationship for whatever reason (the person was an idiot who mistreated you, they had emotional baggage, you were incompatible personality-wise, they were nasty or whatever) and the relationship ended, perhaps acrimoniously and it put you off that gender because you decided it was gender-based.  What I wondered is, whether some people, especially if they are on the spectrum and already have confusing thoughts regarding how they feel about sexuality, might decide all women/men are horrible based on one or two bad relationship experiences and choose to be gay because they think they will have a better experience.

I have a relative who is gay.  She is one of twins (non-identical) and she hung around a lot with her twin's gay circle of friends and acquaintances, almost like it was a novelty.  Through that, she ended up also having a gay relationship.  I was gobsmacked as everything about her seemed really straight, whereas the other twin was clearly gay.  This gay relationship was quite long-lasting, but she maintained she was attracted to men.  In the end she went back to dating men and recently got married.  I really don't think she is bixsexual, as she had never, ever talked about being attracted to other women.  As far as I know she's not on the spectrum but she is really similar to me and has high anxiety, so could possible have Asperger's.

IntenseWorld said:

I may also be naive about this, but I have wondered in the past, whether some people choose being gay once they have had disappointing experiences with members of the opposite gender that make them not want to repeat the experience.

(personal response)

I think it might be better to say that people recognise that they are gay, rather than 'choose being gay', after such an experience. Certainly I've got friends who've gone through that process. I have no idea whether we are literally born with our sexualities determined, or whether they emerge in some subtle way later on. But in as much as attraction is a response, rather than a positive action, it's definitely not something we consciously choose.

Alex R

If a person on the spectrum actually fancies a member of the opposite sex, they are clearly not straight, although they might be bisexual. I also agree that asexuality might be more common amongst people on the spectrum.

Sexual identity confusion is accepted; I have not disputed this at all. But gayness itself is something you either have or do not have, just like straightness, and this applies to people on the spectrum too.

Hope said:

We must be careful about insinuating that people on the spectrum invariably lack self-awareness and do not know their own sexuality - this conclusion would be very patronising.

Well as that's not what I was doing, that's OK with me.  There are a few of us saying the same thing on this thread, so this information is out there.

I have Aspergers, and I do struggle with identity and interpretation of self, but I know that I am gay - I have fancied other women, not in a sexual sense, but in the classical Greek sense; beautiful bodies combined with a sharp intellect.

I would not be surprised if  many people on the spectrum are asexual or experience gender confusion, but gayness is something you are born with; you do know one way or the other fairly soon.

I have read things on other forums which lead me to believe that some people on the spectrum can be genuinely confused about their sexuality, and that there could be a correlation to do with their condition.  This won't apply to all of course, but you cannot speak for everyone.

We must be careful about insinuating that people on the spectrum invariably lack self-awareness and do not know their own sexuality - this conclusion would be very patronising.

I have Aspergers, and I do struggle with identity and interpretation of self, but I know that I am gay - I have fancied other women, not in a sexual sense, but in the classical Greek sense; beautiful bodies combined with a sharp intellect.

I would not be surprised if  many people on the spectrum are asexual or experience gender confusion, but gayness is something you are born with; you do know one way or the other fairly soon.

I have read similar urspecial, that people on the spectrum can be asexual or have no interest in relationships and confuse that with thinking they must be gay.

I think to be sure you are gay, you would have to definitely feel attraction to members of your own gender.  If you just don't fancy members of the opposite gender or don't fancy anyone, that doesn't mean someone is gay.

I may also be naive about this, but I have wondered in the past, whether some people choose being gay once they have had disappointing experiences with members of the opposite gender that make them not want to repeat the experience.

Very interesting debate.

I too agree with Longman about lack of research in this area or reliable points of reference.

I think there has been some research on Autism and Sexuality, I don't think there has been much in-depth study and not much we did not know or could have presumed from without it.

Definatly agree with Longman about research not being in this area and more on the "cure" side of things    *cough*    NAS and Research Autism   *cough*

Not saying they may not necessarily be important or interesting but not looking at the day to day side of things.

Agree with Hope too that adding ASD into the mix confuses things more and can somewhat relate to Longman's theory on ambigious sexual identity.

Discussing this very issue, a NHS Consultant Psychiatrist once said to me that some teenagers with ASD can be called "Gay, retarded etc" by their peers and because of their ASD they tend to believe this is true as they're peers are constantly saying it, so in the end they believe they are "Gay, retarded etc". Even though they may not necessarily be "Gay etc" and never "Retarded", it's just used as offenses or banter etc by peers.

I don't know if that helps but adds another thing into the mix.

urspecial

My understanding, for what it is worth, is that many people on the autistic spectrum experience ambiguous sexual identity, including not being able to place themselves in any category.

It is also my impression that some people who identify gay find it doesn't follow in the way gay neurotypicals would expect to behave, which leaves the AS person just as much the outsider, or possibly not the way they supposed.

However there is little if any written material on the subject, no research, no points of reliable reference. And even where it dramatically affects people's lives I dobt if it will receive much attention, which is a shame.

I am a ***, and think that people with Aspergers who are also gay, are just as good at working out their sexuality as neurotypical people, so I don't understand what Longman means by being coufused - can Longman please clarify?

It might be the case that more people with Aspergers identify as Gay, but research needs to be done.

Certainly, more support for gay people on the spectrum is urgently needed.

Many people are confused by their sexuality, not just people with Aspergers, but I accept that having Aspergers can severely complicate matters. This is partly because friendship and relationship difficulties prevent one from being able to explore their sexuality. However, many neurotypicals are also single well into their later years, but readily identify as straight, not just gay.

I first knew that I was a *** (possibly bisexual, but definitely not straight) when I was 11 years old. My parents are fine with it; they just want me to be happy.

I live near Brighton, but am put off by the noise and crowds.

Hi Caretwo,

Thanks for your story. It seems that getting your diagnosis was absolutely the right thing to do and that's the reason I feel that it's potentially the right way to go for my brother. But at the same time, if I'm wrong about him being on the spectrum and I bring up the possibility with him, it could confuse things or give him some false hope that there is an answer.

Do you think that there could have been a negative effect on you and your mental health if you went through the diagnosis process to find out that Aspergers was not the underlying issue?

I think the issue of sexuality and autism has more to do with two things: confusing messages, and being already "different". The latter fits in in some ways with your suggestion about social implications being less restrictive, so I think you've made very good points there.

On the confusing messages side, it may in part be due to lack of socially directed sexual cues from a peer group in teenage years, but there also seem to be sexual behaviour elements arising out of proximity sensitivity, need for compression, humour/obsession about sexual function, and other behaviours.

Low self esteem could also be a trigger.

Being already different and ostracised means being more willing to accept something that also isolates. Maybe not so much to lose. So as I say, you may be on the right lines there.

The trouble is all the scientists care about is finding a cure for autism, if that's possible. Finding cures always attracts lots of funding. It also has more cudos.

Unfortunately research on lifestyles and how to improve lives led by people with autism comes much lower down the funding scale, with corresponding neglect. Things that might make a difference to individuals aint attractive to the scientists.

There's not much written about sexuality and autism, so I guess people adversely affected will be left to cope in silence.

Hi Longman,

Thanks for your reply. I'd never heard that people with communication issues were 'prescribed' the gay scene. Very interesting. I suppose in theory it's a great idea and it's often the reason so many straight girls like to go to gay bars and clubs. They can be a lot more civilised and friendly but at the same time they can be horrible places if you're not very confident or sure of yourself. I have considered inviting him for a night out with me but I don't think he'd feel very comfortable at all.

It's also interesting that people on the spectrum are more likely to identify as gay. I wonder if it's because they are less conscious of the social implications being gay can have so are more comfortable being open about it (maybe). Neuro typical people may keep it to themselves fearing the way others might see them. Perhaps that will change over time as homosexuality becomes more and more acceptable.

I think you're right, homosexuality needs to be discussed far more openly. I live in Brighton and it's a very safe little bubble of open mindedness and free thinking but I'm well aware it's very unique and the rest of the world has a lot of catching up to do (my mother included)