This forum has become toxic to me

Seems the only person spewing hate here is you. A very disingenuous post that ignores the widely documented issues with "trans identified" men getting into womens prisons, positions for women only and abusing and violating women, their safe spaces and their supporters. Won't address that though will you, because you know it damages your entire argument lol

The truth is always inconvenient 

But then, you wanted an argument didn't you? You wanted to be able to call someone else "toxic", when the hate is in fact deep within you... you don't even have the courage to speak to me directly, which is sad. 

Ahh, such an erudite and thoughtful response.  No, you created a post without naming me directly aimed at me. That's disingenuous. But you go for it  I've dealt with worse than you my whole life, I am firm in my beliefs and happy to talk about them.

Ahh, such an erudite and thoughtful response.  No, you created a post without naming me directly aimed at me. That's disingenuous. But you go for it  I've dealt with worse than you my whole life, I am firm in my beliefs and happy to talk about them.

Yeah thats why I wondered.. thanks for explaining! 

I generally just use man. It's not really anyone business whether I'm trans in general in my view. But for medical purposes or sexual relationships is really to be honest the only time I would mention 'transman' or in this post unfortunately because I'm an idiot. LOL 

Right, thanks for explaining. That it what I thought! But then some people who have transitioned (one patient i had once) refused to even have the word trans used in any of his notes, wanted all reference to ms/miss and trans deleted, and refused to discuss it or use the word whatsoever.

So some of those who have transitioned want to be called transmen, but some will just use plain men/man? I guess it maybe depends on how comfortable they might be with their past, I dont know? Interesting, i think i need to do more reading

Sorry to hear about your heart problems... 

Trans man means Female to male. Transitioned to man. 

I would go full. But can't because of my heart. 

Sorry to ask, but what is a trans man, and how does it differ from a trans women, a transgender male, OR, a transgender female? 

Edited: thought it might be useful to say what i THINK it means - i always thought a trans man was a person born female who has fully or partially transitioned into a male?

Okay 

This is a very helpful post to me. its exactly what i wanted to say but didnt manage. Yes, both sides can be very toxic.

A counsellor told me a while ago to stay off twitter when it is particularly toxic, as it only represents the views of what is actually a small fragment of either side who just happen to be very vocal - but it feels like it's "everyone" on both sides (which is very overwhelming).

This helped me a lot as i usually assume people are either all or nothing and there is no inbetween!

Flint.. can I ask u a question about a phrase u used in that last post...?

I've gone as far as I can medically with my heart condition. 

Thanks. 

Yes i believe he co-opted trans stuff. But I can't dismiss the idea that he was always dysphoric? I dunno. I never paid that person much attention. I dunno if he states he has dysphoria or not. 

Most of the (TVs, Queens etc.) I know hate that they are being lumped together with other groups they don't identify with for political purposes just to try to make transitioning more 'fashionable'.      The true numbers are a tiny fraction of the perceived image.   

Good luck with your journey..

Absolutely agree. I loved Eddie Izzard growing up, he was the first stand up my sister and I were allowed to watch, I idolised him for years. I was told he was a transvestite, never had any issues or confusion around that, I loved how he looked and dressed and found him sexy.

Now....  is he a woman? i'm just confused. confused confused confused.

Thank you for saying this! Ive always been worried about admitting on more public forums (eg twitter) that i actually am really ignorant about all the terms now and what they all mean. It has been indicated to me that I should know??

Yeah I was a nurse but we don't get any "special" training for this!! The NHS have no clue neither do any other orgs i worked for - it was just "use the term the patient wants" - yes thats fine of course we do that, but it would help to have some training (ideally from a transgender person) on the words used, general understandings or what they mean etc.!

I politely asked what cis meant once and got abuse!  so now, I dont ask! I would love to feel comfortable to ask someone what the acronyms and abbreviations actually mean..

Actually I don't hate that as much as you think. 

I actually don't like the trans community in general. 

I just get offended when i perceive people are lumping trans people in a group of predators. And beliebvei n trans rights while also not liking trans community, how they go about stuff.

I am a trans man. My heart condition made my transition complicated.

ANd people have cheapened a cause for their own political gains. But then the other extreme is the idea trans people are all predators, fakers, whatever. Both sides are toxic and It's very depressing. 

Now people who simply don;'t conform to gender roles say they're trans and it cheapens the dysphoria that makes us the way we are. 

It probably makes you feel shitter than you do already, and also uncomfortable, dismissed and isolated. Not nice

i've been on a lot of forums over the years. they never lasted - either the forums themselves or my membership - I think personally they are difficult environments to navigate and would 200% prefer a face to face group, i would never ever use a forum unless i had no other choice. There is just no perfect forum that exists, and no ettiqete that people can agree on (that i've found) 

You're going to hate this - sorry in advance.

Years ago, most blokes dressing as women referred to themselves as TVs or drag queens - there was no intention to 'replace' women or 'be' women - it was just their thing - I personally know hundreds.

Now all of a sudden, they are being co-opted as trans - by a very vocal politically-motivated minority.    

I also know a great many whose sexual thrill is dressing in women's clothing - no interest in anything other than the clothing - they too are being labelled - it's a real mess.

A sub-group within them are misogynists and get off on the domination and intimidation abilities that the law allows.     They are really not nice people

How so? 

Then plastic comes in and points ut some irrelvelent statistic.

It's actually very specific to the argument - sorry if you don't like that.

Yes, it did, you're right. And I have tried to delete it to no avail (it wont let me) 

See THIS is why you should stay!! Eveyerone should learn how to deal with differing opinions, and i'm not great at it either..

That last post has opened my eyes more than any of the last 20 between us. U know why? Because it made me realise, that anyone could be reading what I wrote, it was quite offensive. I should have reflected, and considered that maybe a transgender person could be reading what I wrote and could have been upsetting - especially considering what - i am assuming - transgender people have to deal with day to day.

I should have been more empathetic and thoughtful when writing my views. So, you see.... i like learning, and can accept when I am wrong. (Ive had a lot of practice)

I can accept that. But you did word your posts like you were saying trans people are peodophiles. 

plus there is a lot of people posting on this forum going on about 'gender bender nonsense.' Do you know what it's like to read that *** day in and day out when you're what they're fucking talking about? 

What card? I - honestly - don't see the need for your continuing anger. Did you even read my longer post where I stated my views??

Why can't you accept that not everyone's views are the same as yours??

Good for you! A very brave thing to do, and I admire it because its got to be one of the hardest things anyone can ever deal with. I'm allowed to say that, or am I not as I'm a "bigot"?