what kind of autism research would you do?

Magic mushrooms or LSD, both are proven to massively , but temporally rewire the brain , there is no other substances known to us at the moment as pure and safe as those two to accomplish the massive rewiring 

Very probably.  I think the groupings within the DSM are arbitrary as they stand so it'll be interesting to see how it looks in its next iterations. 

I think it might be useful to have well-defined different subtypes, like previously when there was Aspergers, autistic disorder, PDD-NOS etc. It could be easier to target support for each subtype. But I think it'll also depend on how autism is. If it's a polygene of multiple gene inheritance trait, then it might not be easily classified into subtypes, since if 200 genes determine the severity of autistic traits, then one would need 2^200 subtypes. It might be possible to reduce it by some clustering method, but it'll then be arbitrary how many groups to chose. 

If you want an MRI picture of your brain, it's possible to get one from participating in research experiments! Usually it's a structural T1 image, and you might be able to look at your amygdalae if they give you an array of coronal slices. It's also possible in some places to ask for the 3D image in a computer file.

Why do you think your amygdalae would be larger than average? Are you easily anxious/depressed? 

Yes, i suspect it will turn out that there are lots of subtypes (or would those nice people at the DSM decide to rearrange the diagnoses altogether?) and that any genes involved will operate in clusters and/or with modifier genes such that it's really difficult to track.  i do find it really interesting though.   

Ah yes, I remember now, it was an MRA scan.  So i'd need a different scan entirely to look at brain differences.  I'd still be betting my amygdalae would be larger than average.  Whether they were like that at birth would be another matter but my feeling is that I was differently calibrated from the start and then things became compounded over the years.  . 

I think there is evidence of different wiring, but not as simple and obvious. I understand they presented a new research few days ago on INSAR (international society for autism research)  where they scanned huge number of brains of genetically modified autistic mice (I know, nonsense)  in order to trace the wiring to specific genes. It is unpublished and I didn't see it but feedback on twitter was in the sense that they catalogged more genes and more autism types than they can make sense of.

Jenny Butterfly said:

I find brain scans interesting but wonder whether what they'd be seeing would be cause or effect (e.g. the effects on the brain of long term meditation or lifestyle choices rather than original wiring).  Also how the process of being scanned might affect the results.  Plus how fleeting but possibly intense emotions might impinge.  e.g. if my brain were scanned at a stressful time in my life or, say, after an argument, it might look very different.  But I'd presumably still be autistic.

The effects on brain wiring (functional connectivity or DTI) can be affected by both nature causes (e.g., like having ASD) as well as secondary causes, such as practicing on certain tasks, meditation, lifestyle, emotions, etc... There have been many papers published on these various topics.

Jenny Butterfly said:

Is there anything that shows the structure of an autistic brain to be different?  I remember seeing Temple Grandin's scans in one of her books and she highlighted the differences.  But i think she went on to say that for most there is no visible difference.  Perhaps the scanning techniques aren't yet sophisticated enough or perhaps there generally isn't a difference.  

I think for her comment about no visible difference is because (1) we are more similar than different overall, all brains have the general shape of a brain including the frontal, temporal, parietal, occipital lobes, (2) there is a lot of structural variability in each person's brain (there's lots of visible variability across NTs), so you'll need a massive difference for it to be considered an outlier, and (3) visible difference does not equal statistical difference, if you compare an AS group vs. a control group, you will get statistical difference, but not necessary viable difference to the human eye.

Jenny Butterfly said:

i also wonder whether any differences would be highlighted depending upon differences within the autism spectrum.  Sort of my autism differs from your autism so how does that show?  And what might it mean?  Might it mean that there are actually a host of different unnamed diagnoses all currently hiding under the umbrella term "ASD"?  Or that the ASD label itself is under question?

You could definitely look for brain regions that correlate with a targeted autistic trait - that's one way to approach it. And you can do the analysis for as many traits you want to look at.

You can also divide ASD into subgroups, and maybe train a classifier using brain data to classify the subgroups, and see which regions/connections give highest classier weights.

Jenny Butterfly said:

I did actually have a brain scan a number of years ago to check for aneurysms.  I wonder whether I could go back and ask for a copy to check for differences.  The wires that were firing then might just have depended upon the factors on the day, but maybe I have extra large amygdalae.  I've often thought about that.   

I think the brain scan Temple Grandin showed in her TED talk was a DTI scan. And I didn't think it was very scientific to compare one brain with another brain visually. One would need a large sample of brains to know how much brains vary in general, and whether the variance of her brain from the mean population variance is at the top 5%.

You would have done an angiography scan for aneurysms, which images blood vessels and you wouldn't get much of the brain from the scan. You probably had it accompanied with a CT or MRI scan, which does image the brain, but will not show you any "wires" like DTI. If you had an MRI, it would either be a T1 or T2 scan. And from these, you should be able to see the amygdalae quite clearly.

I find brain scans interesting but wonder whether what they'd be seeing would be cause or effect (e.g. the effects on the brain of long term meditation or lifestyle choices rather than original wiring).  Also how the process of being scanned might affect the results.  Plus how fleeting but possibly intense emotions might impinge.  e.g. if my brain were scanned at a stressful time in my life or, say, after an argument, it might look very different.  But I'd presumably still be autistic.

Is there anything that shows the structure of an autistic brain to be different?  I remember seeing Temple Grandin's scans in one of her books and she highlighted the differences.  But i think she went on to say that for most there is no visible difference.  Perhaps the scanning techniques aren't yet sophisticated enough or perhaps there generally isn't a difference.  

i also wonder whether any differences would be highlighted depending upon differences within the autism spectrum.  Sort of my autism differs from your autism so how does that show?  And what might it mean?  Might it mean that there are actually a host of different unnamed diagnoses all currently hiding under the umbrella term "ASD"?  Or that the ASD label itself is under question?

I did actually have a brain scan a number of years ago to check for aneurysms.  I wonder whether I could go back and ask for a copy to check for differences.  The wires that were firing then might just have depended upon the factors on the day, but maybe I have extra large amygdalae.  I've often thought about that.         

Why LSD specifically though?

I think something like this would be excellent. A lot of people with ASD struggle with the things you mentioned, like emotions, friendships, romance, spacing out, and getting over-stimulated. And people may have also traumatic experiences related to such things. Lots of people are working really hard in learning and understanding how the world works through reading books or counselling or through support workers, and how to interact with others. If there is an effective coaching / role playing method that can help people learn easily, and overcome the difficulties, that would be interesting.

It says the research programme is about the life experiences of *adults on the autism spectrum* and their relatives/carers. When I clicked on the sign-up, there were three choices: "I am an adult on the autism spectrum and I would like to enter information about myself", "I am a relative of an adult on the autism spectrum and I would like to enter information about myself", "I am the relative/career of an adult on the autism spectrum". It seems like the first one is relevant. 

Sorry for the delayed reply. I hadn't been on this forum over the weekends.

I can relate to what you say about family not wanting to hear about it. I haven't told most of my family. I think my family also view it negatively and would prefer to not have a label.

I agree with the downside of people making their own choices. I suffered a lot from undiagnosed autism. I had teachers suspect I might have ASD when I was younger, and they even told me they suspected it, but somehow I never went for a formal assessment/diagnosis. It obviously wasn't my decision since I was a child, but I guess it was either the school's decision or my parents' decision to not look into it further. I wish I could have been diagnosed earlier and have gotten more support for it at school.

Brain scans revealing the wires in a NT and AT brain. Then again brain scans of both people under many different doses of LSD or similar. To see how the wires move and if we can find a place where we can almost have the same wiring. Just for a little while. And I mean both NT ans AT take LSD. 

I am as yet undiagnosed but after discussing things with distant relatives then I know:-

1.  Hand movements is a Paternal Family trait as well as other physical markers.

2.  I know my father, two brothers and several sisters were probably on the spectrum (as I have some common traits).

3.  I am also sure I have a few spectrum traits from my maternal side too.

It is these than make us who we are - nature not nurture - whilst some environmental/development triggers may make us more prone to the outcome later in life due to the lack of knowledge and coping mechanisms.

For me any research needs to be broken down into areas (five senses for example) and then build a questionnaire and group to survey.  Maybe from this the range for say touch (types of human contact, clothes, weight of cover, etc including environment) can be measured and some common/unique issues defined.

I am pretty sure I have little or no triggers for touch, smell or taste with my main ones being audio-visual.  

There also needs to be IMHO more visibility of the various subtleties within the TV/Film/Media - I know Chris Packham is someone I now have some empathy for with some common traits with me.

If you find more information, please share with me.  I cannot believe the amount of misogyny that exists in the world, it's just how the world works I guess.  Really please share with me!  I am more naïve then you...funny how we are learning this experience at the same time!  Or, better yet, I know I am a smart person, but tell me how to start learning more about this subject!  I can't believe all of the exclamation marks!  Can you not hear my excitement (but I'm suppose to know that other people are excited)?  Weird, huh … how the world works.  I always feel ignored because others can "read" me, but I can't figure out why other people just keep changing their minds.  I guess that's why we have narrow interests, we know what we like and don't like.  

Hi!  What an excellent question!  I hope you are not going to profit off of our answers because that would be very unethical.  :(  But since you posted, I'd like to respond.  Since Autism affects many by varying degrees, I can only talk about me, and my own experiences.  Yes, I was traumatized as a child, but I had no help (intervention) to put me on the right path.  Therefore, I'd like to conduct a simple research - obtain a group of young people (of varying ages), and coach them.  You see, "coaching" is the key to anything because knowledge is power.  I've grown up telling myself: "that an education is never wasted because it (the education) will always uncover opportunities that would otherwise be left unseen".  Now that is my line, and please use it wisely.  So, for example, there are many research projects in our world, but if … for high functioning, or those who have the capabilities of achieving "high functioning", there should be study to demonstrate that simple coaching and teaching a person who simply 1) not taught or 2) for whatever reason, did know that people communicated through non-verbal communications (because it does effect one's personal and work life once you try to advance in this world).  For example, a simple coach (teacher) to explain: what basic emotions look like … teach how to have varied interests because we know that as we grow older, it becomes much harder to teach an old dog new tricks; opportunities to "role play" how to start friendships or how to develop romantic interests (as to remove the internal stigma of embarrassment or anxiety) as well as learn through role playing how to overcome triggers such as "unwanted touches" or just learn what causes each of our anxieties and have role playing sessions with a non-autistic person to help us learn how to overcome these traumatic experiences; maybe have literary metaphor classes to teach us how to read between the lines because my imagination can run wild and the truth about what is socially discussed may never cross my mind (and I am tired of being the "weird" one); and lastly, how to help us from getting spaced-out when we are over-stimuli-ed.  I am sure a basic experiment demonstrating simple methods will yield great results.  I have tried looking for this kind of help, and I don't know if I don't explain myself properly but I am tired of living in tangents.  Thank you for your attention, and posting such a wonderful question for open discussion.

Thank you Lone Warrior for responding to me as somebody should have responded privately to Blue when all the very disturbing stuff was pouring out of her. We are all equal, true, whether male or female. I have already decided to take time out. My distress at what was said is not your concern. nor needs to be. Peace. () if you accept it. Thanks. 

NAS clearly do not differentiate between anyone.

You now openly admit to saying your words honestly and mirror things back, I see no such words you used being used anywhere here, you have deliberately set out to cause hurt.

 That is something I cannot do, and I thing certain others are also incapable of doing.

 Yes I may offend some but I am only me, I am a product of my entire upbringing, 

just because tv was full of programs full of sexist and racist so called comedy back then doesn’t mean I am like thst, therefore I know it existed and still does, 

I could still not knowingly use words to offend anyone by “ mirroring”  as you put it.

 Nasty is nasty, it’s choosing to be that way deliberately to cause pain that shows your true self.

 The individual has on many many occasions said they do not understand, and could someone please explain, I don’t always understand things straight away, I ask politely and would hope for a polite but understanding reply.

 If I offend someone I would listen first, to what I said offended them, then in my head my thoughts ME would decide wether my ability to make a judgement based on my own knowledge was indeed intended to offend or was a wrongly chosen set of words I thought were correct to use,

 Again I would never deliberately think of a way to cause hurt just because I felt upset about words said by another.

 Please don’t follow the news, it often shows powerful people doing wrong, they are allowed to and it effects me to hear them so much. I don’t shout abuse st them just because I do not like what they say or do.

 I ignore it and move on with MY life, 

take care and thank you for replying. Shame you keep leaving or banning yourself?

peace and live x()x

Yes, quite right,  misandry is the word. I couldn't find it.