My Quest to get a girlfriend has really effected my mental health

Hi Adam, 

AwesomeAdam said:

My first attempt at getting a girlfriend was a complete disaster because I ended up getting banned from a building and the woman never wants to see me again.

You don't need to go into the specifics, but this alone would tend to suggest that your behaviour was inappropriate to the situation.

There are a lot of autistic people on here who can help you navigate the strange world of love, sex and physical intimacy, which can be a source of confusion and frustration to so many of us.  My experiences are mainly homosexual ones, so I don't fully understand the dynamics of male-female attraction, and therefore will only be able to offer your general dating advice and guidance.  

Inappropriate in their opinion, not mine. I didn't do anything wrong, and that's a fact!

Inappropriate in their opinion, not mine. I didn't do anything wrong, and that's a fact!

She has (her words) supported autistic people for 20+ years and has a pretty good track record of helping people navigate their way through issues in forming and understanding relationships.

That's fair enough. I retain a degree of scepticism but until I've seen more direct evidence of that sort of assistance I'm not really in a position to contradict that.

My interactions with NTs indicate that cold, or at least luke warm, 1-2-1, is the most successful strategy for them. Many 'pick some one up' they've just met. More frequent is hooking up somewhere around the 3 to 5th interaction. For example, a new person comes to a regular event, they get chatting. Next event they seek each other out start chatting again. 3rd event they're already starting to act very familiar with each other as if they were already dating and by the end of the night they've officially become an item.

My observation has been if the necessary rapport for hard core flirting hasn't kicked in at most after 2 or 3 meetings the chances of a relationship forming declines rapidly, if nothing else because someone else tends to get there first.

So the mentality of a pick up artist may be over kill. In terms of thinking they have one shot to make a connection. However there is clearly a ticking clock before any chance of establishing a perception in the other party that you are relationship material is blocked by their growing familiarity which tends to lock their present perception of you in stone.

Peter said:

Forgive me but I doubt they'd be able to focus that on relationship, particularly romantic relations, forming skills.

Already, I have briefly discussed relationships with my support worker. And she has invited me to talk about any barriers I have related to life, love and work. She has (her words) supported autistic people for 20+ years and has a pretty good track record of helping people navigate their way through issues in forming and understanding relationships.

Now, whether she will be giving specialist tuition on how to pick up women, I very much doubt. That's not a skill I'd want or value to be quite frank. That sounds like the kind of bragging nonsense you hear from pissed up blokes down the pub. 

That said, I'm not here to advocate for any one particular charity, nor am I here to assess the depth and scope of the service they provide. I have merely offered an example of one charity in the north west that does help people with autism to navigate these matters i response to your initial statement.

all on-line dating becomes face-to-face - but you've at least pre-filtered the person you're dealing with - a cold 1-2-1 is incredibly hard to do - the stress is immense so performance suffers..

who said anything about online dating? I was thinking of more face to face skills.

You only have to look at normal dating sites to see how dysfunctional they are - the market has moved on.

The impression I get talking to many NTs is it does work like that for a lot of them at least some of the time. I don't see why it shouldn't work that way for autistic people to if they

1. want it to which I gather many do and 
2. if the people with the right skills are willing to put the work in.

Peter said:

Incorporating feedback so that, for any individual you may wish to pursue

It doesn't work like that - it's not a shooting gallery.

But that's part of the point. Incorporating feedback so that, for any individual you may wish to pursue, you can adopt an approach most likely to work on that individual. Teaching people to read the 'dating type' of the prospective partner would of course have to be part of any technique. That and adapting your approach to match. The point is to try and expand the match options of the person trying to date.

At least initially when they are trying to overcome the initial hurdle of gaining someones interest and getting them to the point of considering them as a prospective partner. I don't see anything unethical in that.

The psychology of dating is all BS - you're dealing with individuals.

I could easily match-make individuals - I couldn't do it as a business - I don't like the forced  lack of ethics and profit demands.

Granted but just because it's mostly being done wrong that doesn't mean it can't be done right. You could construct a syllabus on dating skills base currant understanding of the psychology of dating. Then test it empirically as all good science should be. Then repeat the design process based on the new data and go again. A process of continual refinement.

send 100 people out dating with body cams on, 50 trained 50 untrained. You'd get a lot of data. Enough to apply machine learning on. Run speech to text on the audio and see if you can pick up patterns in the words. Run image recognition analysis on the facial expressions see if you can pick out any patterns. Literally distill a formula for successful dating by running repeated trials. I think it would be research money well spent.

Peter said:

There is an entire industry based around giving advice, arguably not very good advice,

Industry - a money making exercise leeching off vulnerable people - outcomes not warranted.

That's factually wrong. There is an entire industry based around giving advice, arguably not very good advice, on how to pick up women. Along with dating agencies I think that demonstrates there is a considerable demand for it in society at large.

Disabled people in general struggle with romantic relationships. Many prospective partners / lovers are put off by the disability itself. There is an argument for a compensatory approach similar to those used in exams. If a person has an unfair disadvantage you can compensate by giving them an advantage that balances this out.

I would argue the best way to compensate for autistic peoples disadvantage is to teach them to do certain things far better than the average neurotypical. An autistic person approaching an NT romantically is never likely to come off as normal but if they are going to seem weird anyway maybe we can teach them to be an unusually charming weird.

Concentrate on how to do the dos rather than starting with a long list of do nots.

• How to give compliments with out seeming disingenuous.
• Build sexual tension without seeming predatory.
• How to approach strangers with out it seeming forced or intrusive.
• How to figure out what will make a particular person you've just met laugh.
• How to get and hold someones attention without seeming demanding.

These are things that can be approached analytically with a reductionist approach.

Peter, no one gets specialised training in how to form new romantic relationships. That's called living a life. The best we can hope for is experience through trial and error. It's how humans have been doing it for thousands of years and it seems a bit odd to want to take the living out of life.

Good song,the EBTG one.

respectfully though they aren't specialised in in helping autistic people form new romantic / sexual relationships. They mention that one to one coaching in social skills is one of many things they do. Forgive me but I doubt they'd be able to focus that on relationship, particularly romantic relations, forming skills. It seems like something supper specialist no one seems to have any insight on or desire to engage with. But of course its not supper specialist at all. Its a key area of unmet need.

I’ve heard so many stories now about autistic people being banned for this or that that I’ve reached the conclusion that any sensible person who knows anything about autism will always start by questioning whether the venue / organisation has been acting discriminatorily before asuming the autistic person must have done something wrong.

Peter said:

I’m not aware of anything in the whole of the north of England.

https://i-am-autism.org.uk/

Think we've all been in that position. Plus workplaces means more complications,more confusion.

Depending on where you are in the or UK there are a number of charities that offer autistic people 1-2-1 support in areas such as intimate relationships.

I’m sorry but that’s a bit like saying provided the dice come up double 6 maybe some one will help you. There are charities that specialise in helping people maintain existing relationships, marrage counciling etc, but charities / services that help autistic people form new  romantic relationships? I’m not aware of anything in the whole of the north of England.