17 year old son and at my wits end

Your son does seem driven to succeed at great personal cost.

To some extent I was like that when younger. I developed a routine of studying through the night until around 4am or later. I found those quiet still hours far easier to achieve a focus without noise or interruptions. All or nothing is very much the autistic way, intense focus on what interests us for hours at a time.

The prescribed school way of learning may not suit your son. It sounds as if he is experimenting to find ways that work better for him. As long as he is able to access the course materials then missing some school is unlikely to harm his results. Schools are largely unsuitable environments for autistic people and can actually be damaging.

It is important that he learns his limits. If he won't listen to anyone then he'll have to learn the hard way unfortunately. Getting into a burnout cycle isn't good longer term. He is young and may be able to bounce back quickly but the more those cycles continue the harder that will become. A major burnout can take a very long time to recover from and may result in permanent regression of skills.

Thank you for the clarity about your intentions. Your points are valuable and clearly come from experience. However, it just was not relevant to me or our situation. I’m a gentle soul so for me it felt too harsh. What works for one does not work for all, which I’m sure you know from your own experience.

However, I’ve learned to be more mindful in my writing style so it cannot be misinterpreted, but being severely sleep deprived and frazzled doing everything possible to support my son, I’m quite happy that I can still string a thought together never mind a ‘proper’ sentence.

Please don’t feel as if you cannot respond on here on my account, even in the way that it read in my mind’s eye, there was a valuable perspective to be gleaned.
I also do not believe that my points were valueless, relative to the way I read the post, which is why I felt compelled to make them.

If there is nothing for you to take from this article then it is right that you don’t, contrary to my reply, I believe that not all points are best made in a passive tone. If you do not take any useful perspective from what I wrote, that does not mean that another perspective-seeker will not, and I am okay with that.  

I did not mean to start an offensive against your parenting journey, parenting done rightly is a heroic act, I doubt that you would be enquiring here if you had a bad intention. Bitterness is not a note I took from your post, passion is what I took, which is why I was moved to answer earnestly.

I apologise for the crude form, like you I am here with the best of intentions, my intention was to do right by the conversation as I saw it. 
I speak with experience that I associate with what I read. If that experience is negative, that does not negate my understanding nor does it negate my remedy, as I have seen it used to solve similar problems before now.  
I am no judge nor did I claim to be, I am simply offering a perspective, it’s direct nature was a vehicle to deliver better the emphasis.

Also putting pressure on him to change it, might make him want on hold on tighter to the routine... I think it has to come from him. I would try to take off the pressure as much as possible, and look into trying to limit external stress factors as much as possible and if he wants to look into techniques to manage stress. I can hear that the routine is disruptive to your family- in the meantime if he is not yet up to changing it, can you figure out a way for him to go about it that is less disruptive to the rest of the family? 
The more i think about it the more I feel that school is the main factor here. 

Hi- I can relate to getting stuck in routines. Routines can help to reduce the number of decisions you need to make and can free up brain space and give some predictability and a sense of security. However, routines can also make you very inflexible and anything that changes them can cause anxiety. The world is ever changing and rigid routines can make it hard to adapt. 
Some routines can be better than others. However at least for me no matter whether the routine is helpful or indeed very detrimental it can be almost impossible to break it. I have been stuck in very damaging routines with food (eg. Had a phase where I had to eat 2 whole pizzas and 2 tiramisus a day... and I have IBS so it was awful for my digestion and health... then I have had phases of eating only handful of foods in rigid pattern and lost a lot of weight unintentionally which is very distressing.).  Change is scary and hard and even if the routine is damaging, especially if a lot of other stresses are happening in life it can be almost impossible to change it.

Recently I have again ended up severely underweight again. I had a lot of external stress factors plus I just worry and stress way too much. I tried to change my eating routine but it caused more digestive upset and stress. I was in such a stressed state in general that I then didn’t even want to try changing it anymore- I felt like I could not deal with any more stress or change despite being so worried about the weight loss. Things did change then funnily when I had decided now wasn’t the moment but i was off work for a few days (to go to an interview) plus had a goal and before I knew it I was changing things. Then I ended up stuck in a new routine... and I desperately wanted to change it- but I couldn’t - then I had a few days with a little less stress and I managed to get going on eating more- 
So there are several things that come to my mind with your son. 
1) the harder you try to change a routine/ the more you focus on it the more difficult it can be

2) Routines are there to try give security and help deal with stress and uncertainty-(they might actually make things more difficult but there is comfort in the predictability) . More stress in life = greater need for routine 

It sounds like your son doesn’t feel ready yet or able to change his routine. 
I would suggest taking the focus away from the routine/ behaviour and instead look at what is causing him stress/ anxiety in his life- can those stress factors somehow be limited? It sounds like school is a big stress factor? Can he learn ways to better relax and deal with the stresses of life? I suspect that if some of those factors are addressed maybe he will feel less of a need for the nocturnal routine and he might be more open to change.

I can also relate to all or nothing thinking regarding routines- i know advice is often to do small gradual changes- that doesn’t really work well for me as even a small change causes stress and I then feel like it’s not worth all that stress for such a negligible change. Plus as the change is so small it is very tempting to just compensate and go back to original routine. I usually find it easier to go for drastic change and just completely mix it up- that makes it harder to compare to original routine, it is scary but at least worth it  .

Sadly in my experience it’s hard or even impossible to force change to routine even if you really want to- changes are more likely to happen when the stress eases. 

Hello, thanks for your input which I will certainly think on.

I may not have been as eloquent at expressing myself as I should have been on this thread. I was being honest with the expectations that society is thrusting on him - and us. If it was down to me, I’d let him thrive in his own way as he is remarkable individual. I do acknowledge I may be listening too much to outside pressure and needed awake up call to remind me of that.

You have assumed this is the method in which me and my son communicate and it is not. I have an entirely different approach as that is what he needs. 

I have already started to implement the suggestions given to me on the other replies. And for me the start of the journey is to acknowledge where I could do better. My son has been very responsive and even said to me that could not have a more supportive and caring mother so I will take his judgement onboard more than someone who makes an assumption on the very little they know about us. 

if you are interested my response to his statement is that I am not doing anything different than a good mother does and what he deserves as he remarkable individual. 

My goal is to help my son in any way he needs it, which is why I posted for advice.  A thought for you is that your negative assumptions and failure to enquire more before reaching a conclusion is exactly why he faces lack of understanding in society. People judge without the full story. 

Your response left a bitter taste that I should not have posted here to help improve the way we interact. I feel shamed, judged and miss understood. Ironically, that’s exactly how my son feels every day from the outside world.

And as for being a perfectionist you have no idea how far from the truth that is. But only if you knew me, but you don’t. What I am is a mother prepared to do anything to help my son be happy and fulfilled.  Misguided sometimes yes, but devoted to be what I need to be for him, yes.

Thanks for your input which I will certainly think on.

I may not have been as eloquent at expressing myself as I should have been on this thread. I was being honest with the expectations that society is thrusting on him - and us. If it was down to me, I’d let him thrive in his own way as he is remarkable individual. I do acknowledge I may be listening too much to outside pressure and needed awake up call to remind me of that.

You have assumed this is the method in which me and my son communicate and it is not. I have an entirely different approach as that is what he needs. 

I have already started to implement the suggestions given to me on the other replies. And for me the start of the journey is to acknowledge where I could do better. My son has been very responsive and even said to me that could not have a more supportive and caring mother so I will take his judgement onboard more than someone who makes an assumption on the very little they know about us. 

if you are interested my response to his statement is that I am not doing anything different than a good mother does and what he deserves as he remarkable individual. 

My goal is to help my son in any way he needs it, which is why I posted for advice.  A thought for you is that your negative assumptions and failure to enquire more before reaching a conclusion is exactly why he faces lack of understanding in society. People judge without the full story. 

Your response left a bitter taste that I should not have posted here to help improve the way we interact. I feel shamed, judged and miss understood. Ironically, that’s exactly how my son feels every day from the outside world.

And as for being a perfectionist you have no idea how far from the truth that is. But only if you knew me, but you don’t. What I am is a mother prepared to do anything to help my son be happy and fulfilled.  Misguided sometimes yes, but devoted to be what I need to be for him, yes.

Thank you so much. So many pearls of wisdom here which has given me so much food for thought. It’s opened my mind further and reminded me to be more aware of his differences, which is to be embraced. I thank you from the bottom of my heart as I think this will ultimately help me on my journey to be what he needs me to be

I think all of this talk of ‘impracticality’, and ‘huge’, and ‘no longer’, and ‘at a loss’; say it all for me. The way your husband and yourself team up for intervention, says it all. It is just too confrontational, autistic people freeze in the face of confrontation, so the ‘disrespectfulness’ you are encountering is likely Alexithymia. It sounds to me like your son is trying his very best, but it also having to deal with the energy-cost of masking, brought on by your pressing of him.

Negative emotion is not just something that your son is emitting. In reading the choice of vocabulary that you are using, I am informed that your son will be anxious; because he has a social impairment, and you are trying to force an understanding on him, you are  cyclicly-emphasising his weakness.

You seem, if I may be so bold, to be a perfectionist. The problem with perfect is that it cannot be added to, your son cannot please you more or follow your instruction, because you are so absolute in your language, which is the literal interpretation that your son takes from you.

Vocabulary and grammar grants us communication; communication grants us reason-and-logic; and reason-and-logic grants us rhetoric/the-ability-to-negotiate.  
Thus, if you do not use positive words, you will not inform your son in a positive way; your son will not think positively, he will not manifest positive things.

Perhaps you could start by abandoning your active voice and adopting a more passive voice. Stop using superlatives for every single point that you make. Instead of pushing your son in the direction of your gladness; you could invite, or persuade or support him -indirectly- to work at the goal or feeling he is inclined toward. 

The best advice I can give you: Is to stop talking your advice at-him and start supporting-him in the manner that he is naturally-inclined to go. There is entirely too much negativity and directness to your rhetoric, and it doesn’t surprise me that he is exhibiting signs of moodiness and stress, you would be wise to consider the cost of pushing him towards disorder.

You may have noticed that I have adopted an ‘active voice’, and have used the word ‘you’ a lot throughout the course of this dialogue, this is by design. I wish to impress upon you the feeling of blame and directness that arises when you are overly imperative and direct with your audience. If you felt that I was accusing you and if you feel backed into a corner, then I have achieved the desired affect.   
It is far easier to walk past sheep undisturbed, by not using eye contact, than using eye contact. Use the carrot and not the stick. Use Honey, instead of vinegar.

I don’t presume that your mannerisms are to be changed overnight, but if you wish to see a change in your son from his current mindset; he is going to have to see you commitment to balanced and reasonable mood first, as an example to literally take from, you’re going to have to lead by example..:)

A few more ideas here for you! If you find yourself back on the site.

NAS77635 said:

I have tried to get him to explore lighter and more fun alternatives

Our Passions should consume us. What will be light and fun to you, might actually cause more stress for him. Trivial matters can appear like unnecessary decadence. And while it's good to indulge in one thing to wind down, that might simply be a hike once per week. I have been driven mad by not being able to identify why systems are in place, have spent decades in deeper matters of philosophy, ethics and psychoanalysis. I cannot tell you the kind of absolute Sense of Relief the understanding brings. The drive is a type of resolution. We can't know everything, but when we are naturally inclined to just accidentally see hyper-connexions without the grounded understanding of the science behind them, it's a bit maddening until one has the language and physics of it all.

As for school and routines; allow him to fail!  From my point of view he's incredibly intelligent and driven. He'll succeed but he'll probably do it better with some kind of mentorship that works within the world the way that he more naturally does. So many great individuals in our past were not A Level students and society would not be where it is without them. Felix Guattari is one I have studied. Due to how society used to be, many didn't require a diagnostic. Modern values no longer reflect Autistic inclinations toward deeper understanding, reliability, clarity, and so on. These might help modern consumers not consume and our economic system would come to a halt, unfortunately. Look into Planned Obsolescence for one exposure to this.

The idea out there, is we tend mature slower than our Non-Autistic peers. But I thought about how I was forced into society by my parents compared with - let's go big and say King Charles, who had everything he needed to succeed. He didn't need to 'get a job', compete with hundreds of others - there was no gatekeeping, he didn't encounter resistance to surviving. He had a platform pre-built and all he needed to do was seize the things he was driven by and specialise, grow his character. We aren't all this lucky, but I decided to give my son room to mature as a human and he can work out how to drive, what to succeed in after he builds better character and routines and becomes into himself. There is plenty of time in life to have ones wind sucked from their sails, to be shoved into factory work and never actually meet ones potential.

The way forward isn't the same for everyone. From what little you've said, you have the makings of a giant. And his capacity is currently limited by his age. He senses a great future and I can tell this. Keep reminding him of Einstein's failures and other greats who've come before him.

There are 3 main problems we struggle with. A hyper-active, chaotic brain capable of grasping incredible understanding, but not until our mid 30's or 40s. The way to ruin this is by interruption. So, allow him his intensities and they will subsist. Be prudent about only specific matters of importance: make sure he has sustenance & block out a week in advance time to build human connexion. But don't overload him with expectations, but give him specifics to be in charge of like the bins or emptying the dishwasher and a time-specific detail to get it done by. A deadline. You'll have to remind him casually... that's just parenting. My son is 25. He'll help with loads of things but I still always need to flag the recycling. Do it without irritation -sometimes we need reminding into our late years :) 

The second is a difficulty with language and seemingly invisible signs non-autistics use to communicate. The only way I've worked out how to navigate is through a bit of wisdom and ethics. I don't mind-read. We're all different. I can afford others matters of dignity and kindness and be open to what they meant and learn to pause, not be reactionary and ask rather than assume. If this modelled for him, he will model it back. This bit can cause the most heightened frustration-becoming-rage, unfortunately.

And last is sensory elements - the ability to sense-perceive which doesn't dull the senses the same. You can engage this and perhaps during time together, have chocolate tastings, whisky tastings, listen to old records, go to not too noisy museums. Find different moss in the forest or at the park.

My grandmother used to say: Very few things are matters of consequence. x

Thank you so much for your response, it is incredibly helpful and insightful.

He is not his biological father but has raised him from 2 yrs. His biological Dad sees him every other weekend but is not very supportive and I do suspect he is on the spectrum too. My son has Asperger's and ADHD.

He is driven to succeed and is very clever and has an ambition to improve the world from both an environmental and humanitarian standpoint, but he puts enormous pressure on himself to achieve this. He had surgery a year ago on his legs to lengthen his tendons, so he needs to do physio for 1 hour a day. He has also started following a very aggressive lifestyle coach online and which also involves 1 hour for regular exercise on top of the that, plus 2 hours of study for his A’Levels and then to get ready for school. He also needs time in the morning to research world geo-politics and other humanitarian matters. I am concerned that he spends time on very heavy subjects and I have tried to get him to explore lighter and more fun alternatives.

We have also tried to break his routine down into smaller tasks and to suggest doing them at different times but he is not prepared to do that, he is quite all or nothing. The trouble with the routine he has implemented is that he cannot keep up with it. He does it for a couple of days, is totally burned out and then slips back to not getting up. On these days he feels the need to write off that day and not go to school.  As you can imagine, everyone in the house is exhausted including the cat and dog! 

When I say we are walking on eggshells, it is actually more that we are containing our emotions despite his aggressive behaviours. Your point about trust makes sense as he has recently said to us that we don’t understand him and we need to let him just deal with this in his own way as he knows what he is doing. Although in reality just seems to perpetuate.  

I take your point by taking a step back for a week – I think I lost sight of this as we are under enormous pressure from his school to get him to attend as he is studying A Levels.  I certainly need to spend some time finding wisdom as we have tried so many different approaches and can’t seem to get through to him.

We actually took him to Iceland 2 weeks ago to support his interest in the environment, but I will try to do more stuff at home with him that he is interested in rather than focusing too much on his routine and refusing to go to school.

This has been very helpful in giving me clarity and direction on what to explore next to support him. Thank you.

I'm confused about who the father is - is your husband his biological father? This is important because the Autistic-Analytic, easily driven toward resolution can be empathised with (relating and responding) by the parent who has autistic genes. As a mum of a 25 year old who's neurodivergent, with dyslexia, I hear you say he needs to wake up this early to clear his mind or it's gutters and my only response is, 'bless..." I feel this. This is a young man who is clearly driven to succeed and fighting his biology. An "against all odds" sort. 

It is unrealistic, but it's the only practical solution it seems, that he's been able to manage. So what other solutions exist? What does he feel the need to accomplish before school, which is similar to going to work.

I work with sound. I wake up and use the morning as if it were the evening and then start my job later depending on details like laundry and post or shopping. I'd rather have the mornings to sort things and clear up small loose threads so I can focus on work without distraction. The difference is I can set my own schedule. 

A few things appear to be happening. To start, we have a different internal understanding of time. The Autistic everything-is-connected, everything-all-at-once 'sense' of being creates difficulty separating elements, ideas, systems, and so on. There is Chronos and there is Aion. The Austist is typically 'stuck in the moment' or in this eternal continuum. That is the sense it seems we tend to have of Time. We won't have difficulty losing our selves in a moment or being present. But we can have excruciating difficulty with linear time and time management. In fact, there is no such thing as time management. The only thing many of us agree on is the prioritisation of things, the continual reminder that it's OK to get one small task done each day and allow it to add up to the full task. And then to visualise the future, if even tomorrow. It's taken decades for me to learn alone how to do this. It can help to learn to work with a yearly calendar. Block out the summer break. Examine each week on Sunday. have a Today list and a list for the week.

Next, there appears to be a great deal of disconnect. And when there's severed connexion between parent and child, there is severed trust. A child will trust a parent who they feel understood by, who they do not doubt has their best interest in mind and who is never offended by them. As parents we always have to mind that trust is something we seek to earn every day because once it's broken, it takes extra effort to regain. If you're walking on eggshells, you could appear as an equal rather than a mentor and unstable, even if you're confused and trying your best. And kids need us to contain our emotions, to be a source of grounding for them. What follows can be all kinds of reactionary chains, all of which create a little more of a mess. He's 17. You could afford to take a step back, maybe even just a week away to breathe - a yoga retreat or just a bit more time spent on walks. The tools to reconnect always involve grounding the self, finding wisdom and learning to be open to seeing with a fresh perspective. Our natural way of thinking is often discussed as "out of the box" or creative. But really, it's just using a critical reasoning process in a different way. Most of us will have great difficulty with language until mid-30s and even more difficulty interrogating our 'feelings' as we're more inclined to see how things are functioning rather than how they impact us or what they mean. Spend time with things he is interested in, ask him to tell you what he is learning and that may be a place to gain trust and reconnect.