Communicating with neurotypicals

Autonomistic said:

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you

Thank you, Autonomistic. It wasn't altogether a surprise, since she's already made her views on autism not being real clear. 

Autonomistic said:

If I ever do think of something to say it only occurs to me long after the event

Yes! Of course I think about such events a lot afterwards, then maybe I can think of a reply, but never at the time. Perhaps it's a lack of dynamism on my part. 

And your right, people do join in with bullying behaviour, albeit that most look uncomfortable at the same time. 

Her mentality has a lot to answer for.

Pegg said:

Last week a colleague decided it would be fun to mock me for being a vegetarian. She did this very publicly, in the staff room. Well, you know, it was - Don't you miss bacon? Animals don't have feelings you know! Well, we can't ask them, can we? Laughing, big joke, face all distorted with her own cleverness...

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. People can be cruel and bullies never really grow out of it. I've been on the receiving end of such behaviour many times myself, when people mock what is different that they don't understand. It is deliberately done to make a show and there is no way they would behave like that if you encountered that person on their own.

The odd thing is that often the others, the ones that are normally kind, laugh along hysterically with the group. What are we supposed to do in that situation? Laugh along with them at our own humiliation? Of course the best ploy would be to have some kind of witty retort but the way they engineer it with everyone around means that is not going to happen. If I ever do think of something to say it only occurs to me long after the event.

I'm going to chip in and say I think the "othering" could also be to do with social hierarchies. So in groups of people we naturally fall into roles or positions depending on who is more dominant or has more respect within the group. My experience is that it depends on the situation and people we are with and I observe other people behave differently depending on who is around. I feel very uncomfortable tarring people with a neurotypical brush but at the same time, get it. At a communication level it is difficult. But then isnt it more about how kind or understanding someone is, regardless of their brain wiring? In an ideal world, taking people as individual humans, everyone would meet somewhere in the middle and there'd be give and take on both sides

Pegg said:

But then, all people are individuals, some more open, or tolerant than others. It's easy to think, them vs us,, with justification - but then, aren't we just doing what we say they do, and othering them? 

That's largely why I wanted to avoid doing it. I think it just comes out of the frustration of not being understood.

My main problem is not being able to speak up for myself. Even if we are super close (autistic or not), 99% of the time (possibly 100%), I will not say if I'm unhappy with anything. Why? I'm scared, I don't want to rock the boat, I don't want to make a fuss and I don't want to feel like I'm forcing someone to change their behaviour.

It's difficult being in my head.

HMO said:

I feel for me, it's almost like I'm speaking a completely different language at times, but I struggle with the translation

Yeah, I get that. It's a pervasive problem, if you have to deal with NTs on a regular basis. Generally, I find they're almost certain to misunderstand and misinterpret. 

Maybe they feel the same - the double empathy problem?

But then, all people are individuals, some more open, or tolerant than others. It's easy to think, them vs us,, with justification - but then, aren't we just doing what we say they do, and othering them? 

Last week a colleague decided it would be fun to mock me for being a vegetarian. She did this very publicly, in the staff room. Well, you know, it was - Don't you miss bacon? Animals don't have feelings you know! Well, we can't ask them, can we? Laughing, big joke, face all distorted with her own cleverness...

So, that's less an empathy problem than plain bullying, which I perceive is because she thinks of autism as just another 'woke' thing - not actually real. 

Basically, her politics were at the root of her behaviour. 

On the other hand, other colleagues are kind and accommodating- even though they clearly don't get what I'm saying most of the time.

I think it can be hard to try with people, when you can reasonably expect them to misunderstand you, as a minimum. Some people are kind though, tolerant, mean well. 

That's something. 

I do take a lot of the responsibility. If they don't know that I have an issue with certain things, how would they take a different approach. But it's something I'm looking at in therapy. 

Where I live there's a specialist Autism education site with a primary, secondary and college all on site. They look quite good, lots of interesting and well thought support. Sometimes children can get good support. Similar to the mental health system, it tends to be harder to get good support when you're an adult. There's usually less sympathy for adults. I'm sure this will change as more celebrities come out as Autistic and the number of diagnoses rises.

I've experienced similar. I get the sense a lot of neurotypicals view us as less than them when they know. I've met women on online dating websites who work with Autistic people who were clearly not at all interested in me. Don't like being cynical but part of me thinks we're just pity cases in the eyes of neurotypicals. They seem to just want to change us and if they can't ghost us.

Yes, that's true. I actually think it's worse when they do know, but it's still a struggle getting things across.

In the examples I give, it couldn't be more obvious as we speak about it almost all the time. 

Quoted from a scientific study:

"Even when an autistic person is masking, non-autistic people will still rate them more harshly than non-autistic peers if they don't know they are autistic."