Dating

The thing is I meet a lot of new people. It feels really presumptuous to say this to every person. And like I said, when someone is clearly giving off vibes and I say that, it tends to result in them ferociously denying it and then coming onto to me again a few weeks later. Mostly these days I cut contact as much as possible with anyone in that camp.

Iain said:

Oh and make sure you have brushed your teeth and used mouthwash please - bad breath is a terrible turn off.

This has reminded me of an ex-boyfriend I was briefly involved with...

He didn't have any teeth of his own and seemed to be of the opinion that oral hygiene didn't apply to him. In addition to being a heavy smoker, he was also rather fond of the strongest cans of lager he could get his hands on.

The combination of stale tobacco and extra-strength lager on his breath was absolutely revolting and made me less inclined to let him get close enough to kiss me. I can remember broaching the topic of his foul-smelling breath, and suggesting as politely as I could that he invest in some mouthwash, some mints, or mint-flavoured gum.

Eventually, he finally took on board what I had been trying to tell him about the importance of good oral hygiene, and realised just how much of a turn-off his bad breath was.

MrSolo said:

I don't want there to be chemistry.

In that case I would tell them up front - I'm not after a date so please stay firmly in the friend zone and we will have a great time.

As I'm sure you know, ASD affects us all differently. Whilst I have social anxieties, I can usually cope okay one-to-one with people. 

However, I think my ability to form friendships is down to luck more than anything else. 

It was set up by a UK charity and I think it was aimed at the UK autistic community initially. However I guess once on the app stores anyone can find it.

There does seem to be very little awareness or mention of it on here since it was launched.

I just signed up for that app. Everyone on it appears to be in the USA 

There is the Autistic Empathy app that was mentioned on here when it launched last year.

https://www.actionforaspergers.org/autistic-empathy-app/

It is completely free and they are very strict on proof of identity to try to ensure safety.

I believe it is for friendship as well as dating. When I signed up very briefly last year that wasn't working well and users were being messaged about dating when they had specified friendship only in their profile. Hopefully things will have improved since the strict id verification was introduced.

I cannot vouch for it personally. I only signed up briefly out of curiosity and when I didn't send the required id my account got deleted automatically. 

There's also one called Hiki but I think that is worldwide and therefore will be harder to find local matches.

How did you make friends what's your secret?  Sometimes I feel like I'm the worst person in the world because it feels like no one ever wants to be my friend. I'm so socially awkward though I think I don't try that hard, or maybe I overthink it and that's what goes wrong. Then I wonder if I'd be able to keep a friend. Relationships of any kind are so stressful and I think about it all the time wondering if I could do it.

I'm sorry you've had disasters over the years. But I'm glad you've had friends you could turn to. Everyone needs someone to turn to, I've got the Samaritans ha but a proper friend would be better.

I did check out local groups a while ago but nothing appealed to me. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for anything that I might enjoy and hopefully it will lead to something.

I'll never understand neurotypicals they are so strange. I wish there was autistic dating apps, it would make dating a lot easier for me and probably for a lot of others on the spectrum.

I will be 49 this year and have to confess that I am somewhat out of touch with the world of dating, partly due to health issues and decreased confidence. However, during my late teens, 20s, and 30s, I was no stranger to it.

In my experience, although dating can be fun and enjoyable, it can also be rather stressful due to so many unwritten rules that one is apparently meant to know. Things may have changed, but if one happened to be female, one of the rules was to play 'hard to get' because it was all about the 'thrill of the chase'. For example, if one had seen or spoken with the person one was dating, one had to wait at least a couple of days before having any further contact with them, so as not to appear too keen. Personally, I considered some of the unspoken rules to be rather ridiculous and unnecessary.

One thing that proved to be invaluable to me when I was dating was having at least one trusted friend. Having notched up a fair few dating disasters and failed relationships, my friends were the ones who provided me with a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on, and basically helped to put me back together again when I was left feeling broken-hearted.

For now, my advice would be to focus on trying to establish at least one trusted friendship, before rushing into the world of dating.

I find being all alone in the world completely pointless, lonely and alienating.

I would love your "problem." Being allowed to just exist in the world without people wanting to assault you.

I wish you could pass this “problem” on to me!

It seems like overkill (and kind of arrogant?) to say that to everyone I happen to hang out with. Also on the few occasions I have picked up on signs that there might be some ulterior motive and said that, the other person usually says "oh no that wasn't my intention don't worry" and then makes a pass later anyway.

I don't want there to be chemistry. I forget that things like that exist until someone ambushes me with it which keeps happening!

I don't want to kiss anyone. I am a bit obsessive about dental hygiene. Maybe I should reduce that a little before meeting up with people to try to put them off.

I wouldn't know the difference between that either. I'm sorry that must be so uncomfortable and frightening to go through.

I guess upon first meeting you can say that you're just here to hang out and chat casually, that way the person you're with would know how things stand with you. What's obvious to us isn't always obvious to neurotypicals so it can be helpful to explain to them sometimes.

Hello Iain,

Thank you for the books suggestions and for the helpful reply. I do appreciate it as right now I feel very alone and not sure what to do or who to turn to for help.

Being autistic can be a lonely thing and world with few people who really understand how it is.

I had a therapist before but she didn't really understand my autism and one of the first things she said to me was. "Don't worry we can cure your autism". Not really what I was hoping for when getting a therapist. I saw her a couple of times but eventually stopped going as it was making me very anxious and she wasn't especially helpful.

I'm on the waiting list to see another but so far I've not heard anymore on my new therapist.

Thanks again. In the meantime I'll try to get some of those books, I think they will be helpful and I find reading a helpful approach for a lot of things so hopefully those books will be available on Kindle as that's what I read on.

MrSolo said:

I don't know how your supposed to tell something is a date vs hanging out.

Asking is a blunt but effective way to find out. Oh and make sure you have brushed your teeth and used mouthwash please - bad breath is a terrible turn off.

Just say something like "hey, I feel there is some chemistry here but I didn't want to hurt the friendship unless you feel the same - how do you feel about it?"

This is direct (while also being subtle enough not to elicit a strong negative response if you mis-read things), is open ended so they then do the talking (or if they behave shy, making eyes at you then it is an invite for you to compliment them more and move things along slowly) and asks them to show their feelings which is typically one of the hardest things for us to gague.

If you think the time is right to move in for a kiss, it is always worth giving them a heads up - just say quietly but confidently  "I'm going to kiss you now" as you lean in, but be prepared for some resistance and don't be offended by it. This can be part of the "game" where you need to talk to them more, complimement them and generally try to win them over before "earning" the kiss.

It isn't called the dating game for nothing...

The rewards outweigh the work to learn the rules and suffer a few rejections however.

I have but never deliberately. What happens over and over again is that I think I've made a friend and then suddenly they're trying to stick their tongue down my throat. I don't know how your supposed to tell something is a date vs hanging out.

Katycat said:

In those years I've never dated anyone. I don't have any friends. I hardly go out and I'm so anxious all the time.

I won't sugar coat it - you will find the process quite challening I expect.

There are loads of unspoken social rules in the neurotypical world of dating, lots of silly exchanges, behavioral norms and stuff that plenty of other NTs get wrong themselves.

I think your best approach is a two pronged one, one to deal with your anxiety and one to deal with your social relations.

Educating yourse on how to control your anxiety better is likely to be the most important otherwise any social interactions can be awkward at best, traumatic at worst. To do this I recommend starting with this book:

Asperger Syndrome and Anxiety - A Guide to Successful Stress Management - Nick Dubin (2009)
ISBN 9781843108955

Next to understand the social interactions there is a longer process, starting with reading a bit more:

Social Skills for Teenagers and Adults with Asperger Syndrome - A Practical Guide to Day-to-day Life - Nancy J., Ph.D. Patrick (2008)
ISBN 9781843108764

and

Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships Decoding Social Mysteries Through the Unique Perspectives of Autism - Grandin, Temple, Barron, Sean (2017)
ISBN 9781941765388

Once you are able to navigate socially and find friends (and keep them - this is the tricky bit) then you are probably ready to try dating - if possible try to date someone with experience of autism as the rejection we often experience from the uninformed can be most unpleasant.

Before launching into this, yet more reading will help you know what you are getting yourself into:

The Asperger Love Guide - A Practical Guide for Adults with Asperger's Syndrome to Seeking, Establishing and Maintaining Successful Relationships - Genevieve Edmonds, Dean Worton (2005)
ISBN 141291910X

An Aspie's Guide to Intimacy, Dating, Sex and Marriage - Attwood, Tony, Evans, Craig R., Lesko, Anita (2015)
eISBN 9781784501273

IT is quite possible to have a normal dating life, but the more pronounced your social isolation has been the more of a gap you have to overcome so you will need patience and persistance. A good support network is also helpful and we are here to provide that if you are willing to talk and ask for help.

Expect way more failures and successes but just keep getting back on that horse and learn from your mistakes. Dating nowadays is a bit like using most social media apps - people don't have much patience and are looking for a connection straight away otherwise they are moving on mentally to the next partner withing 10 minutes of the first date. Understand that reality and don't take it personally.

As The Crow Lady says a therapist is also very helpful. They need to have experience of autism so check this when sourcing one.