Rule 13: the last nail in NAS's coffin?

I'm in strong agreement with the points you make sir.  Thank you for saving me typing time.

I Sperg said:

Someone needs to do the job, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't want to be a mod here so let's just wonder a bit more about how and why that rule arose, who ordered it and why? 

Actually almost all internet forums select mods from people who've been posting for a long time and have demonstrated they behave in a responsible way on the forum. Only a few corporate forums have paid staff or screened volunteers exclusively as moderators. NAS's model of forum moderation is the exception rather than the rule for community based forums. Which only reenforces that NAS in some ways runs more like a corporation than a charity.

This looks like a rule they have HAD to implement to CYA, the vagueness might be more helpful to us than not in the long term.

This site I will admit is admiinistered with a deft hand by people who are subject I imagine to a lot of "guidelines".

We can complain, offer advice, highlight where we think they have overlooked things, but telling them what they "could be doing better" possibly is going a step too far without having better knowledge of the Mods working environment. 

How connected to money or govenrment is it? Both come with savage pressures to do things the "correct way"...

Some websites really stamp on the truth, for example a while back you could not say "Ivermectin" on youtube without getting disciplined...

They've let me tell a LOT of widely suppressed truths here without demur. That speaks to the character of the admin in my book.

They actually seem to allow adult debate right up until the point where it gets shouty which means someone is constantly observing and excercising judgement for our benefit!! 

Someone needs to do the job, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't want to be a mod here so let's just wonder a bit more about how and why that rule arose, who ordered it and why? 

I'm definitely NOT keen on regulations that protect the stupid from their own acts  Seatbelt and helmet laws come to mind, but I'm not entirely stupid myself, so perhaps I simply don't see a real problem that these laws fix.

I say (in an unsure of himself voice) " let's give rule 13 the respect it deserves, based on past performance of this website under the admin it has, and see how they actually implement it?"

They could clarify the difference between support and advice. 

They could clarify the difference between support and advice. 

Hi mate, sorry I hadnt seen that. My mistake

That phrase is attached to most of my outgoing emails. It's both an offer and a challenge...

Edit: And I for one will continue to offer whatever help and advice I have that seems relevant to the desperate when I can.

With regard to helping those who explicitly request it... It would be like failing to help not to do so. Between helping a person in a serious crisis even during the dark and cold hours of a night with no apparent end, and not doing it because you risk make a mistake and end up subject to sanctions, I prefer to help. What does that person do if no one helps them in those difficult moments? I happened to alternate with others during a night when a person was close to suicide. He didn't thank you to the fact that he spent that night with other users who understood him. § And here you even risk BANs if you don't write in an aseptic way. § We all didn't care. Of the BAN I mean not the person and the rules wrong (I'm referring to our forum at the time)

Hi Peter. Years ago, a small group of people tested a forum with me that was inspired by Alex Wrong Planet (2004 USA). In 2011 I saw it born. Now it is the shadow of what it was then. § I would say that it was probably the best forum for Aspergers at the time.Better than the original forum.§Perhaps we Europeans are less inclined to define things as simple, but we always delve into them a lot.§Although you and we have been collaborating very well with the USA for many decades .§What happened after 2011?They made everyone's attendance expand.This distorted our specificity as autistic adults.§They also allowed parents of children not even really with defined autisms to enter.Because at a very early age, the diagnoses were then still very approximate in the world. Now you can no longer do much. § What we don't do in Italy too is follow autistic adults. § So you're not the only ones lacking in this. But sex happens here too, and between the other we pay for a public health service, to then also pay for some services that should be covered by taxes. § Last time my psychiatrist told me that according to him autism "is a" "disease"" of children ! § Now, in addition to totally disagreeing with a serious statement like this: from the APA 1994 and the various DSM5 and ICD up to the last, things are very clear in this regard. § I asked him ... but according to you, doctor, after that an autistic person becomes an adult then what does his disease transform into" in your opinion? He was not able to answer me. § Because the answer to a question like this cannot exist. § In my region, children and adolescents up to 18 years of age are followed perfectly (Now) Then, after the age of 18, absolute emptiness. § I have previous diagnoses, and diagnoses from scientific research, otherwise I wouldn't even have accepted things, for me both the tests, the diagnostic procedures, and the visits are worth a lot. the timing of the diagnosis, the doctors with hundreds of published researches at the basis. §IN any case, at least for me it was so stressful that I stopped in the request for rights sanctioned by law of the Italian State. §After diagnostic months, other diagnostic visits and procedures really long and married for years. I thought the diagnosis would lead to a change in psychological therapies adapted to the autism spectrum. they criticized! § In fact, he doesn't follow anyone. And I'm not responsive to anything. Neither drugs, nor psychological therapies, subjects that I loved very much. § I don't know Peter. I've only been here for a while. As you said, some rules and directionality taken on by the Community would need to be reviewed (they are also in my opinion)§For having interacted with it with moderation since I wanted to cancel myself completely, I found people who did everything to prevent me from doing it.§So I don't know if it's the true reality that we disturb as autistic adults.§In a post it was written that we are many estrnei.Yes, but we are until we trust each other.§I trust you.§I think that some rules can be calmly even magazines.Maybe now they read to understand how harmful these stringent rules are.Because, if you give an autistic person a clear and free path, he or she (I note the almost total absence of girls in the answers I would like us to write all instead)They will use it with the utmost diligence.If, on the other hand, they feel forced to follow rules that hide expressive difficulties, then they will write less and less.§One does a harakiri instead of being of help.There are so few of us here, that if if we went in the majority, the form would die. § This has already happened with us, the forum is a non-profit organization. But it hides too many managerial errors. I am referring to ours. § People are informed... Which ones? I was wondering what was the use of calling Anthony Attwood to make him talk to people already involved in autism. The communication should be aimed at people not yet involved in understanding. §I think we understand each other very well. But if we have to explain to others the things is a communicative disaster. § I often say that it's not the answers that are wrong, but that sometimes it's the questions that are wrong (posed badly and to unhelpful people § I think that we autistic HFAs have a responsibility towards our younger brothers who struggle because they have less voice than us.Certainly not less talents.Some with really low IQs are extraordinary individuals in some particularities, others just have deficits.Just like we have them.Every day I learn at least one interactional aspect for me new.§Then I improve.I don't improve in other things like NT communication.§If you know the aspie quiz , the diagram is almost entirely addressed to the ND sector and that's it.Not good.Sometimes I get 10 out of 10 .average is 8 out of 10 in the graph.§I thought it would change after the diagnosis

In my personal experience of desperation and depression there comes a point where sympathy is just meaningless and hollow. Or at least the kind of sympathy one gets at the end of the Samaritans phone line. I think there’s a line from Star Trek where a philosopher is supposed to have suggested that the most powerful phrase in the English language is not I love you but can I help you.

people spewing desperation on the Internet are often not looking for sympathy they are shouting out into the void hoping for an echo. Someone who understands and reciprocates their sense of desperation. And if you were as desperate as they were you would be desperate to solve the problem. That is why can I help you hold more empathy than I love you. I love you are just words there’s no proof behind them. And even if you mean it it doesn’t mean you understand the state a person is in, the workings of their heart their need their desperation.

can I help you, that shows a willingness to be troubled by other peoples problems. That you either understand those problems or you’re willing to take the time to understand those problems. Can I help you is 1 million times better in the eyes of someone truly desperate than I love you or I feel sorry for you.

I can't remember if there were any "Ts&Cs" upon creating an account.  I'm pretty sure I read you had to be at least 16 and so could assume other rules had to be adhered to as well. Urgent Help states these pages are not for crises or emergencies.

There's information on the Community fAQs relating to if you feel concerns for another member and the steps the mods can take. There's only so much they can do.

e are left with the responsibility of trying to help them.

I don't feel it is technically our responsibility. It is difficult when vulnerable people come here needing help. Often, like you said, they have already accessed services and these may not help. We can offer our own informal advice but we are not responsible for anyone other than ourselves.

I think a disclaimer would be helpful.

Number said:

there is a response from the MODS 6 days ago mate.

Also, I'm not wholly sure what more that could say on the matter.

My unanswered response/question below was posted after the mods posted theirs:

In the above thread, however, we have an O/P who has sought and failed to find assistance with both professional bodies and charities set up for assisting in these situations and was in a precarious state of mind.

I found this thread stressful as I did another where a person was self-harming.

If we are unable to help people who are in quite extreme situations, when the mods aren't active, this puts us in a very difficult position.

It seems to be that a balance needs to be struck.

Clare Mod I was just wondering if a general disclaimer could be posted by NAS regarding advice and then coupled with moderation both by yourselves and self-moderation, that might be an easier way forward for us?

The mods aren't that active on here and when there have been threads posted by vulnerable people who are self-harming or it seems they might do so, we are left with the responsibility of trying to help them.

It's no good suggesting someone rings the Samaritans when they have already said that the Samaritans can't help them.

The next time someone is posting here who is in serious need of help there and then, I for one will be much more reticent to assist.

Also, we are intelligent adults who should be able to share our wisdom, with provisos.

It would have been good if the mods on behalf of NAS would at the very least say whether a general disclaimer is an option that is being considered so that we don't every single time we try to help someone have to use one of our own.

You’d be joining the club..

I disagree.  Competence does still work for some people......if it didn't, I'd be destitute!

Autism in adults, does not a popularity contest win.

And nowadays everything is a popularity contest. In days gone by we could skate by by having "competence", but that now no longer works.

Or as I might say, "it is a conflation and extrapolation beyond the realms of reasonableness.

I prefer bolshie !

Hi Billy,

Sorry to be a pedant....but there is a response from the MODS 6 days ago mate.

Also, I'm not wholly sure what more that could say on the matter.

That's just Bolshie talk Darling! 

Wow, that’s a impactful last line in the comment, if I ever did see one.. it made me choke on caught-breath..

Me too!