Rule 13: the last nail in NAS's coffin?

Number said:

there is a response from the MODS 6 days ago mate.

Also, I'm not wholly sure what more that could say on the matter.

My unanswered response/question below was posted after the mods posted theirs:

In the above thread, however, we have an O/P who has sought and failed to find assistance with both professional bodies and charities set up for assisting in these situations and was in a precarious state of mind.

I found this thread stressful as I did another where a person was self-harming.

If we are unable to help people who are in quite extreme situations, when the mods aren't active, this puts us in a very difficult position.

It seems to be that a balance needs to be struck.

Clare Mod I was just wondering if a general disclaimer could be posted by NAS regarding advice and then coupled with moderation both by yourselves and self-moderation, that might be an easier way forward for us?

The mods aren't that active on here and when there have been threads posted by vulnerable people who are self-harming or it seems they might do so, we are left with the responsibility of trying to help them.

It's no good suggesting someone rings the Samaritans when they have already said that the Samaritans can't help them.

The next time someone is posting here who is in serious need of help there and then, I for one will be much more reticent to assist.

Also, we are intelligent adults who should be able to share our wisdom, with provisos.

It would have been good if the mods on behalf of NAS would at the very least say whether a general disclaimer is an option that is being considered so that we don't every single time we try to help someone have to use one of our own.

I can't remember if there were any "Ts&Cs" upon creating an account.  I'm pretty sure I read you had to be at least 16 and so could assume other rules had to be adhered to as well. Urgent Help states these pages are not for crises or emergencies.

There's information on the Community fAQs relating to if you feel concerns for another member and the steps the mods can take. There's only so much they can do.

e are left with the responsibility of trying to help them.

I don't feel it is technically our responsibility. It is difficult when vulnerable people come here needing help. Often, like you said, they have already accessed services and these may not help. We can offer our own informal advice but we are not responsible for anyone other than ourselves.

I think a disclaimer would be helpful.

I can't remember if there were any "Ts&Cs" upon creating an account.  I'm pretty sure I read you had to be at least 16 and so could assume other rules had to be adhered to as well. Urgent Help states these pages are not for crises or emergencies.

There's information on the Community fAQs relating to if you feel concerns for another member and the steps the mods can take. There's only so much they can do.

e are left with the responsibility of trying to help them.

I don't feel it is technically our responsibility. It is difficult when vulnerable people come here needing help. Often, like you said, they have already accessed services and these may not help. We can offer our own informal advice but we are not responsible for anyone other than ourselves.

I think a disclaimer would be helpful.

That phrase is attached to most of my outgoing emails. It's both an offer and a challenge...

Edit: And I for one will continue to offer whatever help and advice I have that seems relevant to the desperate when I can.

With regard to helping those who explicitly request it... It would be like failing to help not to do so. Between helping a person in a serious crisis even during the dark and cold hours of a night with no apparent end, and not doing it because you risk make a mistake and end up subject to sanctions, I prefer to help. What does that person do if no one helps them in those difficult moments? I happened to alternate with others during a night when a person was close to suicide. He didn't thank you to the fact that he spent that night with other users who understood him. § And here you even risk BANs if you don't write in an aseptic way. § We all didn't care. Of the BAN I mean not the person and the rules wrong (I'm referring to our forum at the time)

In my personal experience of desperation and depression there comes a point where sympathy is just meaningless and hollow. Or at least the kind of sympathy one gets at the end of the Samaritans phone line. I think there’s a line from Star Trek where a philosopher is supposed to have suggested that the most powerful phrase in the English language is not I love you but can I help you.

people spewing desperation on the Internet are often not looking for sympathy they are shouting out into the void hoping for an echo. Someone who understands and reciprocates their sense of desperation. And if you were as desperate as they were you would be desperate to solve the problem. That is why can I help you hold more empathy than I love you. I love you are just words there’s no proof behind them. And even if you mean it it doesn’t mean you understand the state a person is in, the workings of their heart their need their desperation.

can I help you, that shows a willingness to be troubled by other peoples problems. That you either understand those problems or you’re willing to take the time to understand those problems. Can I help you is 1 million times better in the eyes of someone truly desperate than I love you or I feel sorry for you.