Published on 12, July, 2020
That's great - and I really do appreciate the contact - thank you.
There is no doubt that my paranoia is set to DEFCON 4 at the moment, but please believe me when I say there are VERY good reasons for that.
It is great that my faith is being restored, just a wee little bit, that the patterns that I see (or we see) are not always what they seem.
Best of luck to all, indeed.
Viva the humans.
I'm not going to tell you to fook off.
My posting is from one of experience in a very similar situation where I endured a very difficult marriage. You need to understand that neurodiverse marriages have an 80%-85% failure rate. This is very high because it can be very difficult, especially if both partners are unwilling to work on the relationship.
In this case, the wife is unwilling to even go through screening. The husband is considering living a difficult and possibly unfulfilling life with somebody who doesn't have the tool set to try to meet him half way. Again, I can tell you that this is extremely difficult to deal with.
I did, in fact, leave the site a few minutes after posting because I have a very busy life.
Best of luck to the original author and to you as well.
Hello 91971.
That is a VERY strong opening post......and yet I watched you disappear EXACTLY 5 minutes after posting your contribution......on a thread that is over 1 year old.....but your soul was only interested for 5 minutes.....whether you got any sort of reaction to such a heart-felt post by yourself?! I find that non-autistic and non-allistic and non-conceivable......for a true sentient being, of the types I understand!
Based on my census - of activity of this site - this fits a very predictable pattern of behaviour - for a particular type of "soul" herein.
So, in accord with my modus operandi, in these instances, I would be very grateful if you could simply send an acknowledgement to this response to your post. I would be grateful for ANY type of response.....even if it just a "fook-off weirdo"....which I would happily receive.
Like I said, a while back (to folks who may actually care about this stuff)......We have a problem here folks!!
I'm sorry you are dealing with all of this. It's very difficult. I had to deal with a very similar situation.
My advice is to sit down with her and tell her that you love her. Then tell her how difficult all of this is for you. The way she is behaving is making you feel that you are in a very unstable relationship and it is very hard to manage. At the same time, your kids need both parents and they recognize the instability as well. It is not good for anybody. Ask her to please go through autism screening and that you will accept the results and will apologize profusely if the results are negative. Based on your writing, this sounds like my wife and I recognize so many things from my life.
If she refuses, tell her that you're going to need to end the relationship. It's going to be expensive and cause both of you grief but this is incredibly unhealthy and unfair for you. You deserve a healthy life with a partner that you love. My wife and I fought for years and she continually did things that caused friction in our relationship.
If she accepts the testing and the results are positive, tell her that you want the two of you to attend counseling for neurodiverse couples and that you would like her to seek help for herself. This is the only thing that held my marriage together. Her acceptance and seeking help to learn to live in a married relationship and interact with me saved us.
I would not recommend taking the bullet and dealing with the same behavior for the rest of your life. Life's too short for this. You two do it together as a team or you let her go and take care of your kids. Find peace and love without her because you won't get it with her if you continue the way you are going.
Good luck!
Thanks Roy. You don't even know how much these thoughtful comments and experiences mean to me. Mark
Yes hindsight is wonderful thing, my eldest son is 26 and has moved out, my youngest is 21 and rarely at home, it’s lowered the stress levels so much, also there are empty rooms now that I can escape to. I use noise cancelling earphones quite a lot, just someone scraping plates into a bin can be hell. It’s a shame your wife can’t engage with autism yet, one day she might. I think for now her own place is most probably the way to go. It’s not as if she can’t still spend time with you. Hope you find a solution that suits you all.
Thank you, Roy. The thing is we will probably need to think creatively. If I knew about all this 10 years ago, we would have moved to the country and buy a house. But now, the older son is soon 21 and so I guess in a few years, he'll be on his own. In the mean time we're probably need to find temporary solution for my wife. At least that is what I find reasonble. Kind regards, Mark
Hi, I come from the other side of the coin, I’m male and autistic, my wife is allistic. My children are now adults, I struggled so much, I didn’t know I am autistic then. The daily going through the motions was hell on earth. Autistic people often need space, we can’t be caged animals. It’s brilliant that you are so engaged, it must be hard for your children. Have you thought about selling up or just swapping to a more rural area if you are in social housing. A space for your partner is what she craves, I used to think the walls were closing in on me.
Thanks Kimblee90. Yeah. I feel you. Sometimes I feel so alone. I can't tell that to no one. Because no one of my friends understands. My parents do know about it but they can't really relate either. So my best shot is here, I guess. Thank you for being so kind to everyone. Mark
@out_of_step, thank you so much. You gave me a precious insight, even more importantly a reason why some things were happening.
My wife indeed tends to avoid talking about difficult situations. Very rarely did she address an issue herself. I had a feeling it's always me who needs to take the initiative. It has been difficult for me to accept her avoiding. then, things don't get solver and then.... well then... When my wife had a meltdown, I was being blamed for almost anything and everything under the sun, including for things done by myself in her favor. I can still remember nasty things I heard. Make no mistake, I'm a big man, not a whiny nagging husband. But when meltdowns happened I was at times shocked about the disrespect and nastiness of the words said. I don't think this is good for any marriage.
My problem is, I have a very good memory. I remember numbers, people, faces and words. That works great in my professional life but in marriage It seems this works against me.
I reached a point when I was juggling with the idea not to take her seriously anymore, simply because I was used to hearing at times outright ridiculous accusations (that I knew were factually wrong and provenly not true). But I decided to take her seriously. Because I married a smart girl who I respect. I think it's reasonable to expect the same for me.I was missing and still am missing regular open talks about our "state of the union". So to prevent the build up. I would like to have a constant open channel. But I see how difficult that is for my wife. She simply avoids solving the conflicts. And so they are frequently shrugged under the rug.
Anyway, reading what you write, I see I should have been more forgiving.
Even when I get my wife to agree that for example we're gonna talk about something the next day, she kind of "forgets" it. I need to actively remind her what we agreed to. I'm just missing this emotional reciprocity.
I don't have a solution to that. Any recommendations?
Mark
Sorry to hear your going threw this. It is the other way round for me I am neurodiverse husband is not, he struggles to understand my point of view. We have autistic children it can be very overwhelming sometimes and I just feel like I need to run away get space. When I get to burn out I just have to try and think about keeping myself good it’s so hard. Drop me a message if ever you need to vent or talk.
Your points are valid :) And, oh, by all means, I had my mid-life crisis. Approx 10 years ago. I started journaling (which in fact enabled me to start seeing patterns), started playing electric keyboards (which I became very good at), running every day for 10 miles, going out with my good friends, sailing. As a matter of fact, this year my older son and I go sailing for a week, alone. Otherwise I would have gone crazy a long time ago. Keeps me in check (more or less).
I appreciate your thoughts. It helped. Thank you again. Kind regards, Mark
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Also - this is a good love song for stuff like this! Haha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU5pIQfETBY
Curious what she means when she uses the word 'bitter'. That can have a lot of different meanings depending on the context.
Over the years I've asked my father for parenting advice for his grandson. I had a potential diagnostic and brought this up, but my father would always say I need to stop. Afford him agency to not have the issue I perceived. Practice letting go. This changes a dynamic if the other might be open but there's too much tension between parties for them to want to explore or be open to the idea. If someone has felt robbed of agency their whole life, it may be best to never bring it up again.
I also wonder how much time you have had on your own to just become your best self? Maybe stop fighting for the pair and allow the break. Play video games with your boys, do something bachelor-like. Go biking or wall climbing find your new favourite whisky. Couples don't often take enough time to work on their own selves. Some feel incomplete without affirmation and attention from the sex-other they're attracted to. Maybe put the tango shoes away for now? It doesn't sound like she wants another partner, so you don't have to worry. Hit the gym and invest in quality man time. Take the boys on camping holidays. Live your mid life crisis life so you don't have one, and everyone... as far as I can tell... will win. Good luck!
Peter, thanks. Maybe we are both autistic. Then again, I highly doubt it. As for the logic, I always tend to prepare to the conversations. I was always very good in public speaking and debating. It's my natural forte that is part of me, how I communicate. I don't want to crush anyone though, especially not my wife. With time I learned to scale back my assertiveness. But when I'm unjustly attacked, I do sometimes react ferociously. Sometimes my fuse just breaks. I'm not a robot but still a human being.
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate it. I will think about what you said.
Kind regards, Mark
Hey @JuniperFromGallifrey, thank you so much for your thoughts. I really appreciate your input. I will think about it and let my subconscious do the rest over the night.
Just a few notes. Last 10 years I was basically a primary caregiver. I didn't even notice how exhausting was for me to provide, run my business and and the same take almost fully take care of both boys, their school, their issues while having two people on spectrum that I love. The only thing I needed and still need is a tiny bit of emotional reciprocity. Instead, I got scolding too many times.
My wife says I'm bitter. I'm definitely more bitter than I used to be. But I don't want to play a victim. I am not. It was my decision to marry this gorgeous and strong woman and I am not a quitter. That's why I'm trying to fight for us. i'm not sure if I will succeed. It takes two to tango. I'm sceptic if we CAN succeed if my wife doesn't even want to talk openly about my suggestion that we might be an ND/NT couple. I hope this will change.
Anyway, your input was helpful. It gave me more insight into my wife's mind. Things my wife was never able to tell me, not sure why.
Thanks, MarkP.S: Sometimes I wish my wife was on this forum.
Sometimes a little distance makes things stronger. That’s kind of what I was getting at with my brother. I think the division of space helped make our relationship better in the end. I just think maybe renting a whole apartment might be overkill when one room would do.
anyway the way you describe her coping with your son it seems like she has felt that he scares her, or that he was a burden. Maybe when you say she is autistic she interprets that as her being a burden or scary.
also consider this. Maybe you are both autistic? I say that only because I’ve often been accused of ‘crushing people with my logic.’
Being a female and an extreme introvert I have had the question about my "Mental Health" or "Mental State" raised in such a way that it came across as abusive - as a reason to further substantiate the others ability to suffocate, extract from, dismiss, disregard and gaslight me. This may not be your intention, but the main problem between NT and Au is the loss in Translation and the impact that can happen when suggesting Autism.
Kids go through a time of needing an opposite or a same sex parent and she may feel secure in your ability to take a leading role now. But one of the absolute worst things a child can witness is a parent unfulfilled or emotionally hitting a threshold. One of the best things they can watch is a parent who values Self-Care. Who values them enough to walk away when the intensity is beyond their control. It seems to me, she is opting for higher values and if allowed to use a proper actual space it IS a way to self-regulate. In fact, many times we cannot think clearly with others in the room until we have taken proper Time Out to heal and grow. These boys are at a perfect age for her to do so, especially if she has made herself available to them.
Autism comes with certain things Non-Autistics don't always 'get'. The inability to access vocabulary. But a too-loud imagination: non stop images. Mine alone has several silent movies running with music always playing. When I was small it was 3 songs. I've managed to get it down to 1, full orchestration, the lead singer and all but I cannot make it stop. There is SO MUCH happening that I need time to work out how to channel it. And thankfully I've had years on my own no regrets, to sharpen sense-perception skills, to hyper-focus on philosophy which has EASED so much of what was not spelled out to me within society. My son is 25 and we've had time apart. boys used to be sent off to the military when young. Children adapt. But they become incredible humans when they watch their parents make healthy choices and this, IMO, sounds like your wife is making a healthy choice which can benefit you both long-term. Perhaps she feels she has just accommodated you up till now and is beyond burnt out.
You cannot force a process.
It sounds like you're a great husband and from your perspective and the way you navigate life, you've not had the added bonus of continual misunderstanding, difficulty de-coding society, living in a constant escape room, dealing with unknown sensory assault, trying to be responsible but never being afforded what you afford others. Time Alone is the only solution for her to first heal from a lifetime of constant denial. You can't possibly make changes when someone hasn't even been allowed to understand themselves - when they don't know where their strengths and limits lie. There are so many complex expectations in modern society we are a mismatch for and without time to breathe through and begin to understand this, to force her to stay will only facilitate resentment.
It was only after I began to come out of this fog I was in, start a healthy routine and begin to differentiate what beliefs I didn't actually believe that I could start to explore who I was and expand my vocabulary. I didn't realise I was using the wrong words, or how to use words so to mind NT power struggles vs how to be genuine. I didn't realise I had alexihtymia and the first time a therapist asked around 28, I didn't even know that I didn't know and this was the first person to recognise something in me that was dormant - that I didn't know how to express. My boyfriend at the time got offended in that moment and stormed out of the room. But for the first time I suddenly felt 'seen'.
There are a lot of things here, but if you want to build something that lasts, she needs space to re-build herself. NTs and Au's mature at a different pace. Pick one thing to negotiate on, not 5. Practice one small act of kindness and make it routine. I'd also be careful with the word Tantrum when the intensity of pain for an Autistic is a type of overwhelm most NTs won't be able to ever feel. Let's say she's had a lifetime of sensory overload and no one's put the pieces together. I have heard from NTs who micro-dose on mushrooms and are able to experience the world with the intensity we do. It's jarring for most and exciting. But 10/10 say they wouldn't want to live that way.
I'd also be careful of accusing her of withdrawal which is a domineering tactic. If she's undiagnosed she may be stuck in Survival Mode. If you want the woman you fell in love with to enjoy your golden years with, she needs to move from survival to thriving and that doesn't happen over night.
Also, for Autistics, we feel our loved ones intensely no matter where they are. We might not see our friends but a few times a year but they stick with us so intensely it's like there is no separation. As mentioned, negotiate one thing and stick with it, see if it works. Arrange to have coffee or a drink once a week somewhere neutral like you're dating and make a pact to not discuss the relationship. That might be a game changer.
Hey Peter, thank you for your thoughts.I have come to terms with the fact, that highly probably it is her need, not luxury. Still, I'm trying to suggest her several less expensive solutions, to no avail.
As to her being "insulted" by a suggestion that she might be on spectrum, I really don't know why does she feel that way. She also says that I'm only "looking for ways to blame her". All mighty God, why would I want to blame her? What do I get to gain? I even said that for the sake of the argument we can assume that I am (me) on autistic spectrum. But still, we need to talk about it and get on the same page. She's reluctant do to that. She doesn't like to talk in general, and likes to avoiding talking over things. Once she told me that it's challenging for her to talk to me because she's afraid I'm going to crush her with my logic (her words). I can relate to that. I was criticised by her so many times unjustly that I probably got used to having to "prove" to her my standpoint with pure logic.
But okay. I recognized that we might have a channel problem. talking channel jammed, So I invited her to write me an email. This way, we could freely express our thoughts to each other and talk later on. She's reluctant to do that too (for now).
I don't think my wife is ashamed of Asperger's as such. Our youngest son has been diagnosed early on and all of our friends know about it. This is not a stigma. Hence, I don't really understand her reluctance to talk about the particular challenges of NT/ND marriage which we are definitely facing.
That being said, I know much much much much.....more about autism than my wife does. Somehow she was never interested to read about it, even though I regularly sent her way interesting links. I bought myself many books on how to raise a child on spectrum as well as how to deal with challenges in a ND/NT marriage. But I'm still lonely in this. I would like us to explore the depths of this together.
I don't see how moving away from your husband and children can improve things. People grow further apart that way, I think. That would be a shame.