Comments please for suicide research tools

I relate to this 100% she had an idea that might help. I need to get to sleep now but I’ll tell you about it when I can in the next couple of days. 

Hi Sue, your comment about your son hit me because I’ve recently been expressing the same sentiments. Until I realised, that my problem wasn’t that I couldn’t make relationships work, but that I wasinning my hopes on impossible dreams, that kept me distracted from seeing the truth, which is, if I let go of the dreams, and start focussing on meeting my needs, that will extend to meeting people o find my mind interesting and enjoy the way I experience the world, and I’ve got my first opportunity now with a lady I met about a year ago - I’m not talking romantic relationships for me, I haven cut that idea off completely, but I’m taking things slowly step by step, by learning to accept and honour my differences, learn to start meeting my needs and building routines that support me and wl minimise the severity of meltdowns, so they don’t lead to suicidal thoughts. And as I begin to be more open and trusting in this new friendship, I’m going let it help me to open up even more, step by step, so my circle of friends and interests grows organically at a pace that suits me. I’ll be joining an indoor climbing place, so I’ll meet people there and begin to build friendships. My autistic friend has been going for a year now, but she built it up slowly, and she even met a boyfriend there as well as some really nice friends. So it’s a subtle change in mindset and approach, coupled with building on self care, self awareness, self acceptance, etc, because I know I can’t start or keep any kinds of friendships or relationships if I’m trying to live like an nt and not an autistic person and if I start living like an autistic person, I’m already making friends and my life got instantly better, because I have a path I can follow now, one that I’m  made for, which means making friends etc is a lot easier because I only be around those who enjoy me as I am, and when I let go of the fantasy, I got real results, just by me being me. It’s a process but one that can’t fail, with some help and support. 

I thought I would see the response from people on here, as autistic people have a specialised expertise in this and I believe will have extra "lived experience factors" to save lives with their ideas and actions

Exactly. I was incredibly lucky. I'm not content to experience "luck" and not share it about.

I have no need to do further experimentation myself, it was illegal to do what I did, but it did fix a gnawing problem, so I mention it and the dosages from time to time in case in a later age, where medicine goes back to being medicine, it gets to help someone else escape the horrible pit I lived at the bottom of for decades. 

It's a time capsule kinda thing...

Hi Dave, I’m very interested in this topic as suicide has been many things to me over my whole life. For many years, the thought that I could kill myself if things got too bad, gave me a lot of comfort. But then I moved on to researching how to do it and with that, how to prevent it.

Long story short, when my dad died, I didn’t think I could live without him. I had tried to imagine what it would be like to live without him as a way  to try and help me when it happened, but I couldn’t. My mind seemed unable to envision it, and because I had often thought that I couldn’t live without my dad, in the midst of my grief when it happened, I became psychotic, found myself alone and suicidal,  and contacting the crisis team and other places for help and even though I knew what I needed, nobody could provide it. 

i needed a safe place to be, where I could allow my feelings to be expressed and to have somebody there to remind me that I’m experiencing strong emotions and that’s why I feel like I want to die, a to remind me it’s natural to experience strong feelings when a parent dies, and that you’re ok. And I just wanted to be looked after for a few days or so, fed and watered etc, I wouldn’t eat much b if it was provided, it would help me to start getting some balance, so I could release these intense pent up emotions, and not have it end in suicide. But nobody could help me, so I took control anhandled it my way from then on. I didn’t go to the funeral, which I had told him before he died that I didn’t think I would be able to and he understood. And I had the most incredible experience doing it my way, that the strength I gained from that, was worth the pain, but I’m well aware that we don’t all have the strength at that time, which is evident by this conversation. 
So I would love to consider this more, as I do feel passionate about both preventing things coming to that and being there for people in a way that’s meaningful and helpful to them, which can never be a one size fits all due to the complexity of autism and the situation, but I think a strong, reliable, committed effort could be a really good start towards progress in this area. It’s such a common experience for many of us who suffer with it mostly in silence, and I think more awareness and support for it, also opens up opportunities to help each other grow stronger and have the freedom to break out of the stereotypes and make our presence known, through our actual progress. I’ll read and process what you said a few more times and I’m sure I’ll get back to you. It’s certainly something I feel passionate about. 

Current arrangements are not working, but may help some. Suicide rates are increasing. Much of the "professionals" approach at present is protecting themselves, not saving lives.

We have computer technology and Artificial Intelligence  which isn't being used for this at present and could provide "instant research based anonymous expertise".

I am optimistic we can help

Yes, I'm impressed you knew!!  How?? Are you involved? Have we met?

I think fundamentally this could be a really helpful resource. And it’s really good it being done with academics because if it works it’s going to run really contrary to the conventional wisdom on counciling and therapy where it’s all about helping people adapt to their circumstances where as it sounds like your experts will be helping people adapt their circumstances to them. A difficult pill for some the the  mental health field to swallow. In terms of paradigm change. Professionals will need to see academics proving this approach or they’ll dismiss it out of hand.

you are incredibly lucky, but I doubt we could replicate that . Some of it is the psychological optimism you now have

Yes that is also the major reason I continue......... I think that the right conversation with the right person at the right time , would greatly help . Many of us could look back and say " if only I'd been told......."

I had suicidal Ideation, (edging towards action on a couple of memorable occasions) until I was in my early fifties, and ingested a pair of what were called "Research Chemicals" our of boredom, and er, have never had them really since.

I also found that since modern physics with it's talk of extra, imperceptible but real, dimensions to reality had opened up a mechanism by which we could indeed go on in some way after losing access to the regular dimensions that we are familiar with, suicide become much less of a certain reprieve so  am tempted to try and make the best of this life that I can and leave on a high note, not a low.

I remember clearly that the ratio of methylone to mephedrone was 3 to 2 and I took the methylone some 2 hours before the mephedrone and had found it ineffective hence I took a later 200MG IIRC dose of mephedrone, which I knew I kinda "liked but distrusted" but the effect was much potentiated and changed by the methylone already in my system. It took a week for the euphoria to fully wear off...

Like the first time I tried an E. (I've probably done that four or five times? I loved the effect of E but distrust the drug immensely, after seeing what regular use seems to do to people..) But on E I can dance like a normie (or not) and actually enjoy doing it with flashes of embarrassment... I can understand why some people can't get enough of that feeling... 

"Research Chemicals" were Chinese made analogs of the MDMA (Ecstasy) molecule effectively chemically altered to escape classification as a drug, and hence sold as "bath salts" or something else equally "innocuous"legally speaking. 

The trouble with drugs, legal and illegal Alike, is that when they deliver exactly (or even in some cases fairly close) to what the user feels they need, by definition that creates a savage addiction, moderated only by the users self control...

That's fair, I simply meant to illustrate by sharing my experiences that they aren't a one size fits all solution.

Wow let's hope the world has more people like you in it in decades to come.Yes I been on suicide watch with my son its just awfull and because he sometimes can't communicate and has flat affect on his face you have know way of knowing if he's getting suicidal again. If it helps I will  share with you....my son told me he was a whisker away from dragging the blade across his wrists but only reason he didn't go through with it was because we had had a conversation previously..( it was in the throws of covid and there was in general a lot of depression and suicides happening due to how horrendous things got..) and because of how things were at that point I shared with him openly how I myself was feeling very down and that I'd actually felt suicidal but had not done it because the only thing I cared about in this world was him and that I couldn't do that to him and how selfish of me it would be..so he said he thought about that conversation and didn't go through with it because he realised it isn't fair to  those people you leave behind ie me his mum..at this point I realised it is beneficial to have these conversations however hard they may be because if that conversation had not taken place he wouldn't be here today.

So when all other avenues for help are exhausted and your tolerance of the mental anguish became overwhelming, would you write about this on a web based system like this, where we vow to try anything (that's affordable) to help

DaveAsperg,

People doing it out of wanting to help others who are like them.  The connectedness through a common good for a common good.

Some excellent points there Dawn. I think we could get online specialist advice from various experts, but would people know what type of expert to ask for?

I am a GP and know we are hopeless at helping prevent suicide as we just use antidepressants and refer to psychiatrists, whatever the underling cause of suicidal ideation

Sounds like an excellent idea. As the late Plastic said: "we all know CBT is BS because the things we worry about are real".

I related to that so much. My anxiety is very situational. The folks trying to diagnose GAD for me don't get it. My anxiety will sky rocket with a stressful situation and fall like a stone when it's over. I may be a bit traumatised and wobbly but nothing some sleep won't fix. 

I certainly think that many (not all because some autistic people are suffering PTSD too) high anxiety to the point of suicidal ideation episodes for us could be stopped in their tracks when the practical cause of the situation is resolved. So yes, I think good legal advice, social care or housing advice, benefits or employment rights advice etc could do much for our mental health, even suicide prevention. 

I would include GPs too - not to dole out antidepressants or referrals to the MH services that do more harm than good often, but to help with medical anxiety. How do we tell our doctor what's wrong when we collapse trying to explain to the receptionist why we want an appointment, can't describe what we physically feel in words they can understand, constantly misinterpret our own body signals, can't process the sensory and verbal information in there and yet are terrified because we are poorly? I'd include GPs as well as legal and other service bods because sometimes it's a medical problem that causes the suicidal ideation (it is for me). Sorting that would preserve life a) by making the suicidal ideation retreat b) make sure we get medical care before little problems become life endangering ones.

This would not be enough for anyone who also had traumas or clinical depression etc, but for me and for many of our problems which have more to do with practically living in a world not designed for us, it would be more than enough. Better in fact than anything mental health could ever do. They just seem to think than you just think differently about a situation to stop the situation happening - what rot! If you have a legal problem, you need a legal solution to feel better, not stuffing full of chemicals or investigating your Id.

You are doing a grand job there, Dave. Hat's off to you.

DaveAsperg said:

This would be run by  Cambridge Uni Autistic research unit. Very academic approach

Is this the one also with the Bournemouth University?

What type of person do you feel could most help your son - a psychologist, a counsellor?

We aim to provide something which is not easily available elsewhere, but what is needed?

Yes it takes years to develop, but hopefully it will get started in late January.

What aspect do you feel would be most "transformational"