Melanie Sykes have just been diagnosed with autism

Are you basing this on her job? 

Based on stereotypes of autism, I shouldn't be able to do my job either, as my job requires a lot of empathy and people skills. Something Melanie said on Loose Women really resonated with me actually, when she said people are her interest. I've said this many times that people are a fixation for me, especially meeting people (I get bored once I know them well).

If you question her diagnosis then you are questioning a lot of us. My difficulties are often very internalised, nobody ever sees my struggles until I'm approaching meltdown or shutdown. Even that is usually private at home. 

Referring to people as high or low functioning is pretty outdated too these days. Even "high functioning" autistic people have support needs. Just because you cannot relate them to your non-verbal child doesn't mean that they don't exist. 

Wait until you find out there are autistic doctors too. You are going to combust with the confusion.

Our diagnosis isn't really up for debate though. Debate is a two way process and I certainly don't want to be drawn into a debate about whether I am or aren't actually autistic. For many people on this forum, it took 2+ years to wait for their assessment and diagnosis. 

To claim to be offended because someone has suggested to debate with the people who diagnose others is outright ridiculous. No wonder I think you are a troll. You are behaving like one! 

No problem :) I am a complete mess now emotionally and the mind fog i awaklad fget iws now comign down so i ned to step awya.

Thank you for being supportive and putting this more eloquently than I was able to. 

It really isn't the place to be questioning the validity of the diagnosis we have received, certainly not by someone who has never been through that experience themselves or has any awareness of adult assessment. 

I am certainly not saying get off this forum. Please re-read what I have said.

Nor am I questioning your motives. I am suggesting that based on your stated motives you will surely learn more from speaking to experts in the profession. You might learn something from speaking to some people who live and suffer with ASD but surely you can see that the line of your questioning is a bit on the knuckle and - as clearly shown on this thread - liable to insult and offend unless done very carefully. The proof is in the pudding on this one because you have upset people.

I disagree that you have been polite and respectful on this thread.

How exactly have I insulted you?

Very helpful. Many thanks :-)

I guess it l need to read up on masking but inevitably, it does lead to the question of how one can confirm masking.

Camouflaging or masking refers to strategies that individuals with ASD use to mask social difficulties and enable them to “pass” as non-autistic in social situations (Hull et al., 2017; Livingston et al., 2020). Camouflaging consists of complex copying behaviours, compensation, and/or masking of some personality traits or autistic characteristics, with an adaptive purpose that promotes functioning in response to specific environmental or situational demands (Hull et al., 2019; Tubío-Fungueiriño et al., 2020). Examples of camouflaging include mimicking facial expressions of a conversation partner, forcing oneself to make eye contact or stop talking about a specific interest, and using social scripts in everyday interactions.

https://intercommunityaction.org/camouflaging-masking-in-autism-spectrum-disorder/

“Putting on My Best Normal”: Social Camouflaging in Adults with Autism Spectrum Conditions

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5509825/

How to spot SEND pupils who are 'social masking': As a teacher, you can identify this key character trait in girls with autism spectrum disorder

https://www.tes.com/news/how-spot-send-pupils-who-are-social-masking

Autism Masking: To Blend or Not to Blend

https://www.healthline.com/health/autism/autism-masking

Social camouflaging in autism: Is it time to lose the mask?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1362361319878559

Is Autistic Camouflaging Really Bad for Your Health? The true impact of masking in women with autism.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/women-autism-spectrum-disorder/202010/is-autistic-camouflaging-really-bad-your-health

Hi, thanks for your reply, I think I know what you are saying. Have you managed to find any tricks to help support you in these situations? Cheers :-)

I think so but I dont know. No worries, I need to get one with things too. Have a nice day :-)

I do not like your tone. So basically you are saying you dont like my line of questions and you dont trust my motivations for asking them, and so I should shut up and get off the forum. Who are you to say who should and should not ask questions, and where they should be asked and to whom? I dont know if this forum is necessarily the best place but I would have thought speaking to as many people who either have autism, are learning about autism or support someone with autism, would be a very good starting place to learn?At every point in my questions, I have been polite and respectuful. Can you say the same by the manner of your post? Not everyone will like or agree with everyone, but is it not more harmful to shut down debate? That is basically what you are telling me to do. I have emphasised I do not wish to argue or upset anyone. Just because you dont like my line of questioning, does not give you or anyone the right to insult me. 

Do we need to distinguish autistic traits from actual autism?

I think this is what an autism diagnosis does. 

Short reply but I'm going out now. Might elaborate later.

someone who gets by/gets pass marks for social and communication skills

Long before Autism was in my vocabulary I took on a posting as an instructor because I knew my social skills were crap.  I thought if I was an instructor it would enable my social skills.  In the classroom, great I could talk and be as sociable as you like, once i left my brain clammed up and I was back in the same situation where by brain simply could not think of a single thing to say

Fair enough, I cant really disagree with anything you have said to be honest.

I totally understand that such difficulties are not always outwardly visible but this is not someone who gets by/gets pass marks for social and communication skills; she actually outwardly excells in these key diagnostic areas. 

In terms of masking, I I have not read up on it, and I am open to accept this may explain the discrepancies.  I can appreciate it using a slightly different example of demential patients, some of whom are able to mask their memory other  issues. I have seen this first hand. However, after spending enough time with these patients, we start to see beyond the surface layers of early impressions. So yeah, I guess this could be a similar process that explains MS diagnosis.

I guess it l need to read up on masking but inevitably, it does lead to the question of how one can confirm masking. I dont think this is easy. Medical conditions of any type are generally never one size fits all, so this compelxity is not unique to autism. But autism is clearly a very very complex subject, which is why I am on here trying to pick peoples brains. 

A diagnosis of any sort, as far as I am aware, relies on both signs and symptoms. Signs are always outwardly observable and symptoms are those which a patient experiences and reports. If a patient does not report symptoms, they will go unrecognised,unless they also have signs which leads others to enquire more about those inward symptoms.  In either case, clinicians like to measure both signs and symptoms, usually on a scale that describes the extent of any condition. This is done not just for the sake of labeling but to ensure the right support is given at the right time to the right person. 

I quess the difficulty with diagnosing someone who has no outward objective measurable way of confirming any signs of autism, is that we are relying purely on their subjective symptoms. It is not to say those experiences are any less real, or that they are not genuinely suffering. For example, many people experience functional disorders, i.e. there are no structural or physiological issue that can be picked up by any measurable tests, but the person still experiences pain or another difficulties. So for example, many people experience back pain, and think there issue is so severe that they stop doing many of their usual activities. Yet when thoroughly tested, scans, bloods, physio assessment etc, there is no physical problem. The pain is considered to be linked to the psychology of the person. Their experience of pain is real, but they do not merit any diagnosis of having any physical issue with their back. My question is perhaps many people feel they have autistic traits and believe this limits them to do certain things but does it necessarily mean they actually have autism? Do we need to distinguish autistic traits from actual autism? I dont know, its just a question. I just think that basing any medical diagnosis purely on subjective symptoms creates challenges in having any real confidence in confirming those diagnosis. 

Sorry, my comments are a bit long winded. But yeah, I do worry that the diagnostic criteria is becoming overly subjective, and how this may impact provision of support. I agree that not everyone will need the same level of support and that this may not correlate perfectly with traditionally "high" and "low" definitions. There is a lot of complexity. I was aware Paddy had children on the spectrum and I'lll check it out thanks.

Anyway, thank you very much again for your input. It is always good to learn about other peoples experiences, especially when they are different to my own biased perspectives. Best wishes :-) 

There are so many problems and erroneous implicit assumptions in your posts on this thread that I do not know where to start, and I'm not sure there is even much point in forensically going through these to highlight them to you.

Overarching point is that if - as you profess - your motives are benign and you are primarily interested in the science around this area, and subsequently wish to have a debate about diagnostic criteria and issues and ethics around this, I would ask if you really think this is the best place to do that. I would suggest you would have a more productive discussion - and cause less pain to people on this forum - by engaging with professionals that draw up and apply diagnostic criteria. You have met one, the person that diagnosed your child, so perhaps re-engage with them? I, and clearly many other people here, find your engagement on this thread unhelpful and in fact harmful. I kindly request that you desist.

I do understand where you are coming from, I really do. You said about polar opposites - I think that is a fact of autism that people can be polar opposites but sitll come under the same umbrella. I suppose that's hard to get one's head around really (this is not directed at you - as I type it I am thinking about one of the learners are our centre who is on the spectrum and it's far more outwardly obvious and he has far more needs than I ever would - I cannot relate to him. That's because we are two totally different people but we can both be autistic).

One person's difficulty is one person's difficulty.

and that is that one must have significant social and or communication difficulties. The "significant" is explained, from memory, as being persistant and affecting daily functioning

No one would know. I communicate very well. I think my funcitonal communication is better than my social but no one would know this. It does affect my daily functioning because it impacts on my mental health.

I asked specifically about how someone with highly developed natural abilities in social and communication skills, can possibly meet any ASD diagnostic criteria.

Have you read up on masking? To outsiders,  I seem to have natural abilties (they are natural to me anyway) but there's a tiring processing going on to make up for this. Like I said previously, autism is about processing information and how one's brain is wired, rather than outward behaviours. If someone isn't showing outward behaviours it doesn't mean that they are not autistic.

You said about your son not being represented. Did you watch the McGuinness documentary? I think he was alluding to the same sort of thing. He said his kids are sort of "in the middle" and it was difficult because they are not so "low" that they need tonnes of support, but not "high" enough that they would be able to live independently.

Apologies for making gneralisations about your son's support. I was kind of aware of this when I had sent the message but the thread got too long for me to see what you had said about it. Are you worried that austim will become too "diluted" so potential support for individuals like your son will become less? I do think more and more people will be diagnosed but that doesn't mean that everyone will need help. Edit - I think this contradicts what I might ve said earlier.  I do know to be diagnosed you need to show it has an impact on daily life. By people not needing help I'm referring to those maybe who are living in the right environment that they can live a suitable life and don't really need support as such.

Hi

Listen, I am honestly just trying to figure this stuff out. I am asking questions, not making statements and trying to pass them as facts. Its not all about my son or my experience. And just to be very clear, I did not give any information on what support my son has or not had, so I'm not sure why you assume my son gets more support than you? I am not on here to centre a conversation about him. He is not able to come on here and express himself, and may never be able to do so, so tread very carefully.

I am aware that there are many people who have very subtle ASD symptoms, and I think it is utterly tragic that many of those people go a long time, sometimes their entire life without being picked up by the system. And even those who do get a diagnosis, to the general publlic, their challenges, their disability is invisible. So, I understand why many of these people, and I think you relate to this, end up feeling so misunderstood, isolated and ultimately end up severely depressed, often suicidal. I get it, I really do. And my heart goes out to anyone in that situation! 

All I am trying to say, is it appears to me that the diagnostic process, and the definitions of autism are open to interpretation. People keep saying, well if you have a diagnosis, it must be true. I am saying I am not so sure. I hate to use MS as an example but a lot of people on here were saying it is great that she has highlighted how subtle autism can be. Maybe there is some merit in that. But its one thing to say ASD can be subtle/almost an invisible disability, and quite another to have the polar opposite characteristics of ASD, and still say this is autism. To clarify, in my first comment, I asked specifically about how someone with highly developed natural abilities in social and communication skills, can possibly meet any ASD diagnostic criteria. I am honestly happy to be corrected, but from what I have read of the diagnostic criteria, no matter where anyone is on the spectrum, and no matter how varied or subtle ones symptoms, there is one common difficulty; and that is that one must have significant social and or communication difficulties. The "significant" is explained, from memory, as being persistant and affecting daily functioning (particularly higher than average difficulty in forming/maintaining relationships both personal and in work). So, to me, even though I do not know MS, it is quite obvious to me she is very skilled in social and communication skills. I mean her job is basically chit chatting but at a high level. She gesticulates, she interacts with anyone with relative ease, and so I just dont understand it.

I am not attacking anyone on here. There are valid questions around evolving diagnostic criteria. It is confusing, and I dont want anyone to think I am having a go at them, or seeing everything through the narrow lense of my own experience. I am here to learn, so again, thank you for sharing about your own experience. I think it is terrible than anyone should have to suffer and "just get on with it" because people are not aware of their inner challenges. I wish you all the best  :-) 

This is not baiting, I am here to learn, hence why I kept thanking you and remained polite. I am very dissappointed that you have now become personal and insulting. Just because you dont like someones questions, does not excuse lashing out and accusing me of being "unable to comprehend" or being "narrow minded" and narrow sigthted". I have simply asked questions. If you dont know how to answer any of my questions rationally and politely, then perhaps it is you who needs to open your mind? I was trying to finish the chat on positive respectful note " Anyway, thank you for sharing your views. I really dont mean to offend you or anyone :-)" Its absolutely uncalled for to reply in the way you did. 

I am approaching this from multiple perspectives; a background in science,medicine and as a parent of an autistic child. I have acknowledge my own bias and I am not sure what else I can say to convince you that I am only here to learn, not to attack anyone!!! If academics can rationally debate these exact same questions, why would anyone want to close down such conversations on a forum supposed to be here designed to help answer autism questions?

You seem increasingly inclined to reducing every reasonable question to an identity politics rant. I am interested in the science and medicine around autism diagnosis, and how support is best provided for everyone on the spectrum. Its not all about me or my son and its not all about you. I appreciate I am raising questions that may make some people uncomfortable, but its not my true purpose. I think we can all agree utism is very complex, so surely the more questions we raise , and the more we debate the better. But only if it is done in a respectful manner. I have a right to be heard as do you. You have a right to your opinion as do I. I am fully aware I do not have all the answers or even half of them. I am here to learn!  I have continued to be polite at every point. I can only assume your disrespect is either a reflection of feeling insecure about your diagnosis, or a difficulty in considering a different perspective. Anyway, good night and sorry for upsetting you 

People like my son are not represented on these forums, they are not represented in the media or on tv

I'm really sorry about that and it must be difficult.  However, I feel, as a "high functioning" autistic person (non-gifted female aspergers) there is so much misunderstood by people that we need more awareness and representation. I don't identify with autistic people off the telly because I'm just a normal every day person. 

I don't require as much funding as your son. I'd pay for my own support myself if I could find somewhere which had availability or appropriately trained people.

Also, after having read Luke Beardon today, I do agree that environment has a lot to answer for. As we go through day to do or year by year there might be times when support is needed more or needed less. Autistic traits may not need be fixed for life.Autism is a difference in processing information and communication. That could manifest in outward behaviour or not. Sometimes I feel like an imposter in the autistic community because I think maybe I'm not "autistic enough". I don't show outward behaviours. 

The linear aspect of autism does a disservice to an individual's strengths if they are deemed "at the low end" .

Its not for you to be concerned if people are wrongly diagnosed. I sense you are really quite concerned about the future for your son and just want to get him the support that he needs. That's totally understandable. If your son is getting the support he needs then it doesn't really matter what support other people are receiving.

I think twice before posting these days but feel i need to comment. I can see where you are coming from but it sounds like your son gets a lot more support than someone like myself for example, so I don't see what the problem is.

I don't need support to live my day to day life independently so I'm not asking for it. (I do wonder about the future though and if anything happened to my partner as he takes care of a lot of stuff. However it's very unlikely I would ever get any support of this nature when I'm an aged adult).

I don't think it's a case of anyone can say they are autistic because  to say this and get relevant help, you need a clinical diagnosis.

I reiterate my point from above 

out_of_step said:

when someone isn't outwardly "autistic" they are expected to keep up with everyone else

I think a lot of people do not understand how difficult this is and the impact on ones' mental health.  And that to a certain degree, one has to suck it up and get on with it. There is little help available. And I'm not talking about support with living.  I'm talking about an hour on the phone once a week to talk things through with a professional so my head doesn't explode.

the-art-of-autism.com/.../ 

The spectrum isn't a straight line from mild to severe = not linear. Usually it is demonstrated with a diagram that I don't know the correct term for but a spiky circle thing. 

I am not sure what narrowing the spectrum would achieve, which is essentially what you are suggesting by questioning the validity of certain people's diagnosis but not others. It has always been the case that autism is a broad spectrum of the most impaired to the most gifted of individuals. You seem to take issue with the middle ground, where you cannot comprehend the autistic needs of those not glaringly obvious to you. 

In short, I think you are narrow-minded and narrow-sighted. This is what has disabled girls and women for years, the lack of insight into the female experience of autism. It's still disabling us because we still face having to justify ourselves to the parents that want their child to be the greater victim of autism and disability. 

My childhood was a misery thanks to undiagnosed autism. There is NO support for people like me so I'm not taking anything away from your son. We get diagnosed and discharged and that is that. My diagnosis has absolutely nothing to do with your son's life, or indeed yours, and your views about discrediting us are grossly offensive to me and no doubt to others. 

I'm not engaging with any more of this baiting. 

The spectrum isn't a straight line from mild to severe = not linear. Usually it is demonstrated with a diagram that I don't know the correct term for but a spiky circle thing. 

I am not sure what narrowing the spectrum would achieve, which is essentially what you are suggesting by questioning the validity of certain people's diagnosis but not others. It has always been the case that autism is a broad spectrum of the most impaired to the most gifted of individuals. You seem to take issue with the middle ground, where you cannot comprehend the autistic needs of those not glaringly obvious to you. 

In short, I think you are narrow-minded and narrow-sighted. This is what has disabled girls and women for years, the lack of insight into the female experience of autism. It's still disabling us because we still face having to justify ourselves to the parents that want their child to be the greater victim of autism and disability. 

My childhood was a misery thanks to undiagnosed autism. There is NO support for people like me so I'm not taking anything away from your son. We get diagnosed and discharged and that is that. My diagnosis has absolutely nothing to do with your son's life, or indeed yours, and your views about discrediting us are grossly offensive to me and no doubt to others. 

I'm not engaging with any more of this baiting. 

You've worded this so perfectly. Thank you.

I am glad to have been of some service.

In that Autistic Spectrum Disorder describes limited, narrow and repetitive patterns of social interaction, communication and imagination ~ or as the acronym of ASD it has always been a diagnostic descriptor; rather than as being according to you a malevolent entity!?!

And yes I have read extensively on the for and against arguments.

People on this forum can identify with autism according to the terms and conditions of here so doing, so refrain from imagining that people are speaking on behalf of your son and then assuming that you are justified in criticising them for your own actions!?!

In terms of conscious embodiment autism describes being neurophysiologically self-centric, as such it should neither then be compared with cancer nor in any way metaphorically, allegorically or literally is it to be surgically, chemically or radioactively removed from the body of society.

Well the basic issue is that autism is a developmental condition rather than being a medical one, and as a developmental condition it is not then a developmental disorder either ~ as being autistic just involves to various degrees being otherwise enabled.

Using that as an unfounded ‘if’ based criticism reflects badly upon yourself though.

I have on numerous occasions been an advocate for those who could not do so for themselves, and when I am unable to speak or write for myself ~ there are those that do so as advocates for me.

The Aspie quiz is neither mine nor technically does it include me either ~ being that although I have a quite significant Knowledge Quota, I only have an Intelligence Quota of 62 rather than the required 90 or more to take that particular test.

Rather than describing millions of parents such as yourself as being like *****~ for not being able to fulfil the neurotypical dream that is actually a nightmare for those who cannot, recognise that autistic children’s developmental impairments require research from the social sciences involved in education, and their co-morbidities require research from the medical sciences involved in health.

When the word ‘cure’ is used on autistic forums in relation to the word autism or the description of autistic people ~ it can have all the functional equivalence of the word ****, and of course the coercive threat to collaborate with the ‘****’ just makes things even more of a communicational crash and burn at an explosives storage depot session.

You have though been high-jacking and criticising the credibility of this threads topic matter regarding Melanie Sykes socially functional autism diagnosis, and by default the campaign to make the education system more befitting for everyone on and off the autism diagnostic spectrum.

This is not though a two dimensional argument ~ but a discussion about three dimensional states of affairs with at least as many perspectives as there are people existentially addressing them.

Remember that autism is a spectrum condition with negative, neutral and positive attributes ~ so if you see nothing positive about autism; you are failing to recognise the difference between autism as a neurophysiological condition ~ and autistic developmental impairments as being educational specialisations and psychological and physiological co-morbidities as being medical specialisations.

Only your view is not inclusive and your misunderstanding and incomprehension of things is not serving you well.

Autism is not being used as a political correctness debate aside from yourself stating that it is, along with your continual emphasis about being a struggling parent with a non-verbal autistic child ~ without mentioning or inquiring about any research or treatment modalities that might be relevant, but rather by default negating and dismissing the campaign to have individuality appropriately facilitated, identified and affirmed in the education system.

Autism is a fact of life.

Imagine that this topic could very simply be analogous to a cuboid block, with contextually four rectangle shaped sides and two square shaped sides ~ with each perspective of which being as valid as every other, and as such I am only presenting information that is the case ~ for the sake of consideration and discussion, and not for the sake of any argumentative dismissal.

Not according to the National Health Service in the UK:

Autism is not an illness

Being autistic does not mean you have an illness or disease. It means your brain works in a different way from other people.

It's something you're born with or first appears when you're very young.

If you're autistic, you're autistic your whole life.

Autism is not a medical condition with treatments or a "cure". But some people need support to help them with certain things.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/what-is-autism/

And from the National Centre of Biotechnical Information in USA:

The outlook for many individuals with autism spectrum disorder today is brighter than it was 50 years ago; more people with the condition are able to speak, read, and live in the community rather than in institutions, and some will be largely free from symptoms of the disorder by adulthood.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7398158/

We have not gone back and fourth with articles and youtube links at all ~ being that you have only offered opinions rejecting things as not being so, when in fact they are. You may just as well be arguing that a cuboid block only has square shaped sides whilst I am explaining there are rectangle shaped sides also.

Neurological diversity involves individuality in every case ~ whereas by contrast you have been debating against the relevance of high social functioning on the autistic diagnostic spectrum, and debating for the greater relevance of parents that have socially lower functioning autistic children ~ as being a philosophical and personal campaign involving therefore your sense of identity.

In that the Latin prefix ‘dis-’ means broken into pieces or separated apart ~ being disabled in concrete terms involves having lost an ability; such as going deaf or losing a limb and such like, whereas autism involves developmental impairments that can develop further due to inappropriate or incompatible facilitations, identifications and affirmations of individuality in society, to greater or lesser extents.

I can being that after seizures I am sometimes quite unable to speak, write or cope with some of my basic needs, and I have family and friends who work in care facilities dealing with such needs as you describe also.

For them, they do not want to celebrate their autism. Autism for these people can only be described as torture, pain and suffering.

Keep in mind that statement you made about not speaking for everyone ~ as some are by contrast quite content as long as their basic needs are being met and their particular interests and scheduled routines are being maintained.

Not in the least.

No one but yourself with the usual methodology to prevent self-harm being described via the following link:

Self-harm and autism ~ a guide for parents and carers

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/self-harm/parents

After I had a near death experience at the age of three I started having stress induced body buckling room wrecking seizures several times a week at best, or several times a day at worst ~ and everyone in the family desperately hoped each one would be the terminal one.

During my childhood, my mother tried to get help for me but the doctors and social services made out it was either her responsibility or my responsibility to be better behaved and more responsive to treatment, so eventually everyone felt better imagining I was responsible and just gave me loads of stress about being more dependable ~ and the more of that I got the more body buckling room wrecking seizures everybody had to deal with!?!

Along with the problem of being another unfounded ‘if’ attack, there is the further problem of you wanting the absolute best for your child which involves by contrast someone else’s child having the absolute worst chance of life involving whatever pain and suffering maybe the case.

Everyone has the right to argue against finding a cure for all the characteristics of being autistic, whereas no one has the right to stop autistic people having their impaired abilities reasonable adjusted for socially, nor does anyone have the right to stop autistic people having their co-morbidities sorted out medically ~ when and where possible.

That is your imagined interpolation of what you did not fully understand and therefore could not fully comprehend.

Redefining the diagnostic criteria works for everyone involving neurophysiological behaviourisms that are typical, atypical and divergent, what with making the assessment protocols more refined in their contextualisation and more accurate in their description of the different character traits.

Not as far as you have misconstrued things ~ no, but yes they do in respect of calling for a better quality of social facilitation, identification and affirmation for everyone on the autism spectrum in terms of involving anything from having no autistic traits to some, all the way up to those having enough traits to be somewhere on the autism diagnostic spectrum itself.

Autism Spectrum Conditions are developmental in nature, not medical. Autistic Co-morbidities are though psychologically and physiologically diagnosed as being medical conditions.

The Autism Spectrum Disorder acronym of ASD has become the Autistic Spectrum Condition acronym of ASC increasingly in the UK ~ yet no matter what the current or future nomenclature or acronyms may or may not become, they will still be describing what has been described in one way or another for along as mammalian life has been on the go.

There are non-verbal autistic people who are able to use technological devices to write with and websites of forums including this one amongst others to communicate on, so if there is the personal aptitude and the appropriate facilitation, identification and affirmation of their autistic individuality to do so ~ it shouldn’t be a problem.

Diagnostic criteria describe peoples behaviour and or symptoms, so in choosing to dismiss the credibility of which ~ you chose to undermine and demean those people’s sense of identity, and as such quite a few on the autism diagnostic spectrum feel particularly hypersensitive after a life time of personal rejection and social isolation.

As long as you no longer promote your son’s autistic impairments as valid and whoever else’s as being invalid or unwarranted in terms of diagnosis ~ and no longer promote **** ideologies, you wont have anywhere near as many problems addressing your or your son’s personal needs.

Yes, just as people compulsively comfort eat, shop and so forth on account that their primary social needs having been obstructed and corrupted by what parents, teachers and peers etcetera enforced behaviourally instead. A slightly different approach is required by you.

Just like autism; down’s syndrome is a neurophysiological embodiment of consciousness, and to end that correlation as such involves killing them, and that is the issue.

Wanting to live is a choice though for her.

It does though upset at least some people with down’s syndrome that they like autistic people and so forth are undesired, and it also angers or depresses them that they like many other minorities are deemed too disturbing or troubling to bare.

Hence the neurological diversity movement attempting to encourage society at large to accept diversity as being a good thing; rather than as being something to be ignored, criticised or mourned as a bypass to an ideologically normalised life ~ in that trying to live the dream of normality sidelines reality and excludes diversity, sort of thing.

Still it is her freedom to enjoy what and as much is experientially available and amenable to her.

It is not the condition that is being celebrated, it is in fact the individual dealing with their condition that is being respected, and it is as such their achievements that are being celebrated.

I used the ‘neurodiversity’ video as an example of not being a discriminatory movement against those with the most severe co-morbidities of autism ~ but as a universal celebration of individuals who are otherwise enabled having fulfilling experiences for themselves, without having to live up to social value systems that ordinarily exclude them and make them feel incomplete.

So no one is trying to change your opinion as that is up to you as being your decision, we are merely addressing your mistaken use of the word ‘autism’ as being the plural and the word ‘autistic’ as being the singular, and that it is your dismissive attitude and continued enforcements of misconceived and demeaning assumptions that have been offending people.

Yes ~ and as such you have cognitive dissonance in terms of continuing to dismiss Ekblad's paper as holding no water; despite having in fact been peer reviewed as you state here:

Only the subject of neurological diversity has been covered in the Medical Humanities Blog section of the BMJ as follows here:

Neuro Diversity Explored In Film – Review by Professor Janet Harbord, Professor of Film, Queen Mary University, London

When cinema has depicted autism it has almost exclusively sought to translate the world of the autistic person for a supposed neurotypical audience. But what happens if we start from a position of autism as a benefit, a modality that can renew our experience of what cinema can be? Cinema’s assumptions about how communication takes place, what the eye is drawn to in a scene, about who or what is at the centre of a story or even that a story has a centre, begin to figure as particular choices in the history of film that can be overturned. Autism through Cinema is a four-year project that explores how autism can transform the medium of film and its reliance on normative codes of body language and social interaction, https://www.autism-through-cinema.org.uk.

https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-humanities/2021/09/08/neuro-diversity-explored-in-film/

And by contrast in terms of observing the neurophysiological diversity of autistic people ~ we also have the following from another one of the BMJ’s Medical Humanities pages:

Theorising the neurotypical gaze: autistic love and relationships in The Bridge (Bron/Broen 2011–2018)

In popular media, autistic subjectivity is most often produced through the lens of the neurotypical gaze. Dominant understandings of autism therefore tend to focus on perceived deficits in social communication and relationships. Accordingly, this article has two primary concerns. First, it uses the Danish/Swedish television series The Bridge (Bron/Broen, 2011–2018) and critical responses to the series as examples of how the neurotypical gaze operates, concentrating on the pleasures derived from looking at autism, how autism is ‘fixed’ (Frantz Fanon, 1986) as a socially undesirable subject position, and the self-interested focus of the gaze. Second, it analyses key scenes from the series to expose and challenge the dominance of the neurotypical perspective in scholarly accounts of autistic sexuality and relationality. Using Lauren Berlant’s (2012) work on love, I argue that the non-normative ways of being constructed by the series do not fit easily within neuroconventional frameworks of love and desire. Consequently, autistic expressions of love are rendered both undesirable and illegible to the neurotypical gaze. The article therefore offers a flexible framework for understanding how the neurotypical gaze functions across cultural and academic spheres and gives vital insight into how autistic love and relationships are narratively constructed.

https://mh.bmj.com/content/early/2021/01/26/medhum-2020-011906

Anyone with the appropriate reading proficiency can yes, but that is exactly the point of them as being a means of being better informed and thereby having a more balanced opinion regarding the latest research findings and directions of research.

The online tests serve in the first instance as assessments for people to see if seeking a medical referral from a GP and so forth to an assessment team is warranted, and in the second instance they serve to make it easier for the assessment team to come to a more informed decision at the end of the diagnostic process.

Well obviously the Sage, Lancet and BMJ articles describe and as such demonstrate otherwise, being that autism is not the problem ~ whereas autistic impairments being inappropriately facilitated, identified and affirmed in society to become co-morbidities are problematic.

That is not the case. They can define the nature or character of their experience politely in accordance with the terms and conditions here and that are in general involved with describing the characteristics of autism, remembering that autism describes every variety of being autistic.

Respect does not mean compliance with your demands and or expectations ~ therefore appreciate the required semantics here, and describe things accordingly and thereby respectfully.

Your son’s neurology and physiology cannot be cured or fixed in respect of being autistic, but his conscious embodiment and developing awareness through which can be better facilitated, identified and more appropriately as such affirmed.

They actually want their individuality as neurologically divergent people to be accepted, and thereafter the success of their achievements to be respected or celebrated, rather than being themselves castigated or rejected for not being otherwise or elsewhere than they actually are.

Keep secure in mind then that Kanner’s, Asperger’s and Down’s Syndromes etcetera are neurophysiological embodiments of consciousness ~ and can neither be ‘cured’ or as such ‘culled’, whereas developmental impairments can be better facilitated, identified and affirmed sociologically, whilst psychological and physiological co-morbidities can be better treated and healed ~ especially with more funding and support for research being involved.

[All quotes in this thread have been removed following a data deletion request - if you have any questions about this please contact communitymanager@nas.org.uk 

[Username removed by moderator] I've read your posts, and I'm struggling to follow your line of thought. Firstly, let's try dropping the talk of 'identity politics', 'bubbles' etc. I'll ask for forgiveness in advance, as I'm not trying to be insulting, but it's clear that this is an 'identity politics' issue for you. You're defining yourself very much as 'parent of autistic child' and are arguing from the basis of that identity. You talk about wanting respect for people's beliefs. Again, this is very much an 'identity politics' type of response. I do not respect opinions that I consider harmful, nor should anyone. We should, however, not assume bad intentions in others unless demonstrated. So perhaps we should proceed on that basis. I'm going to assume that you've accurately described your personal circumstances and are motivated by trying to help those close to you.

Firstly, the comparison between autism and cancer is disanalogous. Cancer is a disease that causes death; autism is not. That is not a credible position. I am unfamiliar with any serious agency with any knowledge of the topic that is calling for a cure for autism. This isn't because they've been captured by identity politics. It's because that position is inherently implausible. Putting aside the diagnostic criteria, the best description of autism in practice I've seen is an atypical distribution of skills; people with autism tend to be very good at some things and poor at others. I'm unsure about what a 'cure' for that would even look like.

I wonder whether you're confusing autism with comorbidities. Many of the things you've described don't seem to relate to autism directly. From the literature I've read, people with autism are prone to a range of other conditions, sometimes inherently, and sometimes because of the social response to autism. This is why functioning levels are typically considered unhelpful, and why the DSM-5 removed the old diagnoses; when comorbidities were accounted for, there were no meaningful differences. Naturally, a person with multiple comorbidities may have greater care needs, but that doesn't add any credence to the 'cure autism' position, because they are extraneous to the general position.

I agree with you that the 'politics of representation' are difficult, and advocacy groups struggle to cover a range of views. However, here's another problem. Despite being well intentioned, parents don't always accurately represent the interests or feelings of their children. I've known many circumstances where parents have very strongly advocated for certain positions when their child was unable to speak for themselves, and, years later, the child has disagreed. Just because a person is in distress doesn't mean that they would necessarily wish that their neurotype is different, even if that was possible.

A word on context too. A major problem that autistic people face, which is well represented on these threads, is that people aren't believed when they say they feel a certain way. This can be very harmful. I suspect that this is why your earlier conversations became so heated. Saying that someone isn't autistic because they seem to communicate fine is wrong in fact; the diagnostic criteria talks of 'difficulties in social communication'. Finding something difficult doesn't mean that a person can't do it well. The antonym of 'difficult' is 'ease', not 'skill'. The reaction may have been caused by you using a formulation that many people have heard and has caused them harm. It's not that the robustness of the diagnostic procedure shouldn't be challenged, but it is questionable to do so in that particular way on this forum. People who allege domestic violence do need to be challenged as to whether their accounts are true, but to do so when they are seeking help in a refuge may be insensitive.

Oh is THAT what a spiky profile is!!!

If by 'this' you mean what M described as being the 'spiky circle thing':

Then read:

Autism, Personality, and Human Diversity: Defining Neurodiversity in an Iterative Process Using Aspie Quiz

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244013497722

And check out perhaps the following website explaining and for taking the Aspie Quiz:

https://embrace-autism.com/aspie-quiz/

M said:

The spectrum isn't a straight line from mild to severe = not linear. Usually it is demonstrated with a diagram that I don't know the correct term for but a spiky circle thing. 

This is not baiting, I am here to learn, hence why I kept thanking you and remained polite. I am very dissappointed that you have now become personal and insulting. Just because you dont like someones questions, does not excuse lashing out and accusing me of being "unable to comprehend" or being "narrow minded" and narrow sigthted". I have simply asked questions. If you dont know how to answer any of my questions rationally and politely, then perhaps it is you who needs to open your mind? I was trying to finish the chat on positive respectful note " Anyway, thank you for sharing your views. I really dont mean to offend you or anyone :-)" Its absolutely uncalled for to reply in the way you did. 

I am approaching this from multiple perspectives; a background in science,medicine and as a parent of an autistic child. I have acknowledge my own bias and I am not sure what else I can say to convince you that I am only here to learn, not to attack anyone!!! If academics can rationally debate these exact same questions, why would anyone want to close down such conversations on a forum supposed to be here designed to help answer autism questions?

You seem increasingly inclined to reducing every reasonable question to an identity politics rant. I am interested in the science and medicine around autism diagnosis, and how support is best provided for everyone on the spectrum. Its not all about me or my son and its not all about you. I appreciate I am raising questions that may make some people uncomfortable, but its not my true purpose. I think we can all agree utism is very complex, so surely the more questions we raise , and the more we debate the better. But only if it is done in a respectful manner. I have a right to be heard as do you. You have a right to your opinion as do I. I am fully aware I do not have all the answers or even half of them. I am here to learn!  I have continued to be polite at every point. I can only assume your disrespect is either a reflection of feeling insecure about your diagnosis, or a difficulty in considering a different perspective. Anyway, good night and sorry for upsetting you