Why do people think it's OK to be autistic?

Sickle Moon, I am very sorry if I made things worse. It's just a theory. Of course you can have your gender, no one can change that - you are who you feel you are.

Flont, you are correct in that I was discussing other people's perceptions. I do go off at a bit of a tangent sometimes exploring issues and trying to work them out, but I was alarmed to see that I might have made things worse when I was trying to make them better. I will apologise - thank you.

Sickle Moon - no one can take away your gender. You are female. Nothing will take that away from you. It's not even up for debate. You were female, you are female, you will always be female, and nothing anyone says or does will ever, ever take that away from you.

I don't want to speak for Pixiefox as she is very articulate and intelligent, but I can see you are upset so I just want to quickly point out that Pixiefox was discussing perceptions and interpretations of stereotypical male and female interests/behaviour. Stereotypes and perceptions are not reality, stereotypes and perceptions do not define whether you are a particular gender or not.

I can see you are very worried about your gender being taken away from you, but it is indivisible from you. It is an integral part of who you are and cannot be extracted from you by outside influences.

We don’t think like males. I’m aware of the ‘extreme male brain’ theory of autism but I’m autistic and female and I know that my brain works in a female way (albeit with less advanced social skills than NT females) as compared to men (either NT or autistic). There are more differences in brain functioning between the genders than just social skills ability. I’ve read the book ‘men are from Mars, women are from Venus’ which very accurately describes the differences between how male and female brains work and I am confident that these differences apply regardless of whether the male/female is autistic/non-autistic

Why do people do this to me? I try so hard to treat people well and do things right, and the whole world and everyone in it is against me.

I'm sorry - the fact that we apparently think like males has really really upset me, I can't be male, i just can't, I've never wanted to be, I try so hard to be so female. i have very typically female interests. Why can't I have anything? Why can't I even have my gender?!!!!!!

Hi again Sickle Moon. I replied to your original post 5 days ago with the assumption that you had an identity crisis. Now that you have been kind enough to share more of your thoughts and feelings, I think that's probably not the issue but I do have some other ideas.

In your other posts you said:

 "My family have loved and protected me my whole life, and I repay them by being autistic. What a fantastic daughter I am - not."

 "It's more the way nurses and health visitors and autism professionals and mental health professionals have spoken to me and treated me. The things they say, their tone of voice...it all very much points to them not treating me like I'm female."

"I feel the Loose Women panel are trying to exclude me from the world of women"

"I was an unbelievably ugly child - maybe that's what's hitting"

The first comment I quoted illustrates that you may be feeling guilt about what you are. You may have your own expectations of what a daughter should be like, and it may be unrealistic. Autistic people usually have cognitive rigidity, also known as rigidity of mind, which manifests in needing to be in control and knowing what is going to happen, but also often in perfectionism. Recently I found I had made a mistake at work, where I deal with large volumes of money movements every week. When I realised what I had done I felt guilty, scared and physically sick. I felt like I was useless at my job. After 10 days of unsuccessfully trying to resolve the problem myself, I told the boss and asked for advice. I hated doing it, but he was great and reminded me that we all make mistakes and that my perfectionism is what makes me good at my job. What I'm trying to explain is that we are often much too hard on ourselves. I can be a valued employee without doing every task 100% correct. You are a fantastic daughter whether you're autistic or not. Try to accept yourself as your family accept you.

The second quote I feel relates specifically to female Aspie brains. It is said that we have brains which function more like a non autistic male than a non autistic female. I have some interests which are more thought of as male, such as sci-fi, and don't like many supposedly "female" interests such as historical romance novels. I don't like soaps or dramas such as call the midwife which other women love. But like you I completely identity as female. However there have been situations where I didn't feel "at home" with other women. Perhaps they sensed my brain didn't process stuff the same way theirs did, who knows? Perhaps the people you identified as not treating you like a female saw something in your behaviour that their brain subconsciously misinterpreted as "male" thinking or behaviour. If so, that's a disorder of their NT brains which sort their inputs using pre-conceived templates and find it difficult to deal with anything that does not match their cultural norms. They are flawed too. We sometimes have to ignore them. And we also sometimes need to learn to stop doing things like watching Loose Women and find something else that is more interesting or fulfilling for us.

Finally, I too thought I was an incredibly ugly child. When I was 19 I remember a photo album containing childhood photos of me being passed around at a family event and being quite distressed about it. I no longer think I'm ugly but for some people this thought persists and is known as Body Dysmorphic disorder. You don't say if this is still how you feel about yourself, but it sounds like some counselling might help you to deal with your feelings of low self esteem.

Thank you again for sharing with us - this forum helps us all in trying to make sense of the world. I hope that in some way we help you.

There is no such thing as ugly to a blind person. 

Each and every being on this planet is beautiful in there own right.

beauty comes from within and shines through.

To have a loving heart which cannot be seen by the eye, only felt through gesture and acceptance of all others..

YOU are NOT ugly.

Your words show you are actually a kind and caring natured being.

Take care and BE whatever YOU wish to BE,  

You have to love yourself from within to accept and give love with others. 

Take care.

I understand what you mean about ‘carrying feelings around in the background’ sort of without realising and behaviour being affected by them. I’ve had to learn to read my behaviour to work out whether something is affecting me or not

Could it be that these are emotions you are attributing to the show, but actually are caused by something else? I feel a lot of things and it's only recently I've realised I don't know what it is I'm actually feeling unless someone tells me. And I sort of carry these feelings around in the background, sort of without realising, and it's only apparent when I start acting out. It's not at the present situation, but rather a build up from something else. (I'm probably not making a lot is sense here) I'll try and think of a way to better explain

I was an unbelievably ugly child - maybe that's what's hitting, but for a long time I've worried that people are doing something to me. It's not that I see the Loose Women as womanhood, it's that I feel them actually doing stuff to me. I feel a huge sense of dread and fear and frustration when I even think about it.

Nobody sees Loose women as the measure of womanhood. It's a silly talk show.

No more than Jeremy Kyle show is a model of family life... totally distorted TV spectacles.

Okay - let me try and echo back what I think I've understood and you can tell me whether I am right or way off:

You feel very strongly that all your life various professionals (and only professionals?) have given you persistent non-verbal cues that they see you as more masculine than feminine. And this feeling is bolstered by the fact that when you look at photos of yourself from when you were a girl, you feel that you look more boyish than girlish?

And as for Loose Women (I don't watch it so I am not an expert on that, so forgive my ignorance!) you feel that the version of 'womanhood' that they portray does not include you, and this makes you feel excluded and ignored and therefore your identity as a woman is challenged?

I don't doubt your gender identity by the way. I absolutely accept that I am speaking with a female, I assure you.

It's so hard to put it into words. When you look at pictures of me when I was little, I was always in very girly clothes and had long hair, however, something in my facial expression looked more boyish, as if I'd been conditioned to express myself in that way. At first I tried to challenge my thoughts by telling myself that if people wanted to turn me into a man, they'd have put me in more boyish clothes, but then I realised that of course it was never really my family doing it. It's more the way nurses and health visitors and autism professionals and mental health professionals have spoken to me and treated me. The things they say, their tone of voice...it all very much points to them not treating me like I'm female. It's hard to put into words. It's kind of a big 'you have to be there' moment. But there are lots of little signs that prove it's true.

I feel the Loose Women panel are trying to exclude me from the world of women. When I've watched it in the past, I've felt that very strongly. That show causes such a strong reaction in me - I've become angry and devastated and desperate after watching it. People laugh at me when I tell them, but I can't change how I feel or what I see.

My gender identity is NOT in question. I fully, completely and utterly identify as female. Always have, always will.

If you don't mind my asking (and please don't feel you have to reply) how did those people try to turn you into a boy/man? What did they do/say?

Also, how can people on TV shows do that to you? If you don't mind, help me to understand.

It's teachers, health visitors, parents' friends etc who have tried to turn me into a boy/man. Also, a big fear I have is people on TV doing it. Loose Women, etc

Sickle Moon said:

It's something people have been trying to do to me since I was a tiny child. Nobody wanted me to be a little girl, they wanted me to be a little boy. Nobody believes this, or they say they don't believe it, but I've got eviden

Sorry, Sickle Moon, I'm a little confused... so who were you talking about here if not your family?

(Being autistic wasn't your choice and any family worth keeping would understand that.)

I really appreciate your concern and understand how you read that into what I said. You're clearly a very caring person. However, my family are not even the slightest bit abusive. My family have loved and protected me my whole life, and I repay them by being autistic. What a fantastic daughter I am - not.

I am a bit worried by this:

Sickle Moon said:

I just feel defective, judged by everyone, and guilty for what I've done to my famil

Are you family actually judging you as defective and guilty of being in their life?

In that case it is very sad that your family are so discriminatory and abusive of you. You need to cut contact with them.

Call WomansAid

I think you are being abused and it erodes your self esteem and sense of self generally. You need to get away from that and rebuild yourself, push back.

It is always OK to be you.

If you are autistic, it is always OK to be autistic, because it is who you are. Love yourself.

If other people don't love and value you for who you are, it is their loss, they are toxic for you, stop contact with them.

If they are close family, you really need to kick them out of your life. They are not doing what family is for. Family is for unconditional love and support.

'xac'ly!