Bad manners and good manners in sickness and in health

longman, you've hit the nail on the head. I think as my daughter grows older she finds it much more difficult to hide her intollerance of people and the growing pressure of now attending comp rather than primary has taken its toll.

My daughters anxiety manifests in her becoming very loud and she does not have any problem shouting out to her teacher in class things such as 'this doesn't make any sense' which as a year 7 appears increadibly rude to the teacher but the other kids find it entertaining.

She's not been bullied, I think this is because when she first started a boy in her class started calling her names and she hit him so hard she made him cry, so I think the other kids are a little wary of her, I was appalled at first because I couldn't believe she'd do that to another child, but in hindsight maybe it did her a favour because it gave her a bit of a don't mess with me persona.

She is generally quite loud and abrupt at home, I sometimes feel that this is to keep my attention as I have an older daughter also. I guess when she's ill she knows that she's got my full attention!! Don't get me wrong, she's an adorable girl who can be very loving at times (always on her terms lol) I certainly would never be without her.

Cheers

Andrea

Thanks again longman. A lot of what you say rings true with our son - the slow build-up of events leading to what appears to be an over-reaction to something minor;and the overload of information causing stress. I'm going to get the Tantam book and try and learn more about my son's world. The fact that deep down he can be pleasant and polite - even though he is physically unwell - shows that his behaviour at other times may be a result of outside pressures rather than his 'real' self.

Regards.

My reason for asking was my own experience of growing up without a diagnosis or any other "explanation" for all the difficulty, which was seen as something I was doing wrong.

The pressure mounted through the day, but I would break down often for no obvious reason at all. I thought of it as "last straw syndrome" because I usually coped with most of the bad things but finally blew just because of the build up of mishaps. This would add to the guilt of the whole thing because I'd have a huge over-reaction to something obviously trivial so that added to the perception it was all my fault.

My problem was I was entertaining. I got bullied because I was easily agitated by noise and movement, especially sudden noise and movement and especially on the periphery of my field of view. So I performed for the crowd by getting distressed.  These things would happen out of sight of authority, and could be managed so I appeared to over-react to nothing at all when authority "turned up".

It makes sense now because I've observed it in others. You can see that the over-reaction doesn't seem to have an immediately obvious cause, but must be down to the build up of stress.

For that reason I tend to like Digby Tantam's "bandwidth" theory that the ability of AS to process information operates over a narrower bandwidth causing a bottleleck, or else the information coming in is much more than for most people and finds a bottleneck (Tantam "Can the World Afford Autistic Spectrum Disorder - Nonverbal communication asperger syndrome and the interbrain" Jessica Kingsley 2009).

Not enough seems to be understood about the contribution of short term "past" events as distinct from the apparent immediate relationship to behaviour.

Not silly at all longman. I hadn't thought of it that way round. His 'ill-self' does seem natural and real, so maybe the stresses of everday 'healthy' life are what causes him to slip into a defensive rudeness. He has never been in trouble at school for this sort of thing, and probably does save it all for us at home. I haven't noticed any improvements at weekends or on holiday, so it's a bit more than school I think. But you have got me to look at the problem in a different way.

Many thanks

silly question maybe.....but what are your children not doing when they are ill that they normally do when not ill?

Are they off school?  School environments may be extremely stressful - large numbers of peers in close proximity, a large amount of information to process, lots of issues to deal with, therefore at peak stress the whole time.

Is there another stressful environment they are in that creates an information and sensory bottleneck. Some AS children express their disteress only when they get home and bottle it up while at school or in other pressured environments.

Could they be naturally very polite and thoughtful, but the circumstances of their day makes it extremely difficult to remember to be polite?

It just seems your describing something which turned on its head makes sense. Its not that they're only polite when they're ill, its that when they're ill the pressures causing them to be impolite have gone.

As I say, silly question.....

Thanks andyjay. Our son's lack of manners is not related to adolescence - he has always been like this, and always been much better when he has been ill. Yet another mystery of this mysterious condition. Like you, we do constantly stress the need to be polite, and never let rudeness go without comment. Sometimes it seems to be sinking in, at other times we seem to have made no progress. Every time he is ill I hope that he will emerge into good health with his manners miraculously intact - but no luck yet.

We have put off telling him about the diagnosis as we fear he will go into denial and withdraw even more. But reading other comments here I think we need to steel ourselves and get it done. Hopefully it will help him come to terms with who he is and be more settled and happier in the long run.

Thanks again

Hi, I've got a 12 year old girl who is as yet undiagnosed, we see the child psychologist next week so fingers crossed. My GP suggested Aspergers to us and after doing lots of reading and research I think he's right.

Has your sons lack of manners started recently? The reason I ask is because my daughter sounds very much like your son.

She has always been academically good, a high achiever throughout her primary school and was previously very polite outside of the home (she's always been a house devil!! lol)

I've seen a serious deterioration in her manners and the way she is with other people since she hit adolescence. She no longer seems to have the patience to deal with people and is becoming increasingly rude, aggressive and defiant.

I think some of it is down to her almost teenage hormones, my older daughter who has no issues went through a kevin the teenager stage at the same age and I've wondered whether it's exagerated due to her Aspergers.

Again like your son, if my daughter is ill she is like a different child and will be very nice, polite and pleasant.

I constantly remind her about the way she is with people and to say please, thankyou etc. Although it doesn't always seem to make any difference I think if I keep plugging away the message might sink in eventually! I also make sure that I explain to her why it's important to do so.

When do you plan to tell your son about his diagnosis? I've been very open with my daughter about what's happening and she seems to have accepted this with no real problems.

I'm pleased to tell you that my older daughters Kevin like ways have calmed down considerably now, she's almost 15.