Screen time advice with 11 year old son

yep that might be a better place to start for him - he had an online guitar lesson this morning & watching him, he is so much more receptive to other people / professionals than he is to me or his dad.  He's really angry / frustrated with us

Have you looked at autism coaching? This is something I'm considering for myself. Talking therapy for autism related things just doesn't work for me. I need something more practical than talking about my feelings. Just a thought I had earlier. 

yes I think I need to explore this further and although my husband & I have been in therapy at various times, it seems a bit extreme to be thinking my son needs therapy at 11 years old - but if he was physically poorly, I would take him to a GP without a second thought 

totally agree and in recent months I've noticed him turning to screens even when we are in the company of friends  / cousins / grandparents which saddens me

Yep this is so true - I really like some of the ideas you suggested, especially a family puzzle & other screen based activities.  He has struggled with friendships at school, this has dented his confidence & self-esteem & many times I've struggled with how to help him.  It often seems like he really hates us.  Re. picking up signals / signs and being questioned about their motives / morals - he accidentally hit me in my eye with his shoe at the park today & instead of saying sorry & asking if I was ok he laughed  - which led to me telling him that's really unkind.  

Since he had a big chocolate cake at the park today, I didn't allow him to have an ice cream when watching a movie later - but he will keep on badgering me & then become rude because I'm saying no.  Unless he has complete control or I agree to everything he asks, then we have a fall out.  

So pleased to heat your son managed to navigate these difficult periods & will no doubt help many others once he's a therapist.  You must be very proud of him & yourself! 

I just want to add, maybe ask him to show you what needs to be done in his game in order to finish a task on a computer game and shut it down properly so he doesn't lose ALL the work he's done for that session. This will help you understand the process and will help him trust you more as it's a type of bonding.

I simply know this as my father has always played games since I was young. We were never allowed to interrupt the process. But for someone working in a lab on something which can bring immense ruin to a whole scientific process, an interruption like a power outage doesn't just cost billions, it can change temperatures, ruin samples or experiments that might have taken years to decades to propagate. For too many things in real life, we should have learned how to be afforded - and then afford others, to mind the channels and details for shutting down a process properly.

So it sounds like the smash edit -sharp interruption of a screen turning off while he's wrapping up was at the core of the problem? This can literally produce a feeling like being hit by a brick on the back side of the head. I remember not being able to articulate this when younger. In movies, this kind of terrorising interruption is what we watch when prisoners are continually woken up to induce sleep deprivation. On-going interruptions for autistics will produce the same result; an inability to think clearly, a type of built up trauma from a continual lack of resolution. It's far more important to enforce he do one-thing-at-a-time to completion. 

For Autistics this is the Montoropic Brain, which is a desired trait, our natural ability to hyper-focus and just flip into a flow state. But, coupled with feeling things as "too-real", it means we'll never get used to harsh immediate transitions unless there is imminent danger.

You know your son best, and this is a great age to afford him room to trial and error adult disciplines like meeting time limits. And yes, screens can be poor choices for small humans. Unfortunately the world we live in now is run by them! I won't buy a car with them in as they far too distracting - not stationary like a paper map, and I can't understand how that's legal.  But in order for him to become successful in whatever he does, he may be expected to sit in front of them all day and have a sharp command of them. 

If he likes music, there's so much he can learn which might go along with his natural inclinations. From building synths and other electronics, to creating soundscapes and DJing in software programmes. There are physics nerds who work as acousticians and sound designing for theatres. Hans Zimmer creates all his music computer based. His mixers and engineers spend 12 days in front of a monitor and are paid well for it. Sound Editors and podcasters and so on. We all need computers. The internet is for downloading software, but mine is generally off to conserve RAM. 

You sound like a great mum! I have a boy who's much older, but the best thing to remember is not everyone will have an issue with addiction. In fact, Erich Fromm suggested the heart of addiction is isolation. If a screen is rewarding us more than the reward we get from others (emotional distance or a lack of understanding), then we have a problem.

My son had therapy (for a different issue) when he was younger. I found a therapist that was willing to work pro bono/ pay what we could basis because the wait with CAMHS was too long to wait for their help. My son's therapist used CBT and DBT methods through play therapy to help him gain awareness of his emotions and show him strategies for dealing with his feelings. A lot of therapists state whether they have experience of or understanding about autism and you can put that in the search to narrow down suitable therapists. We got feedback after every session and information about strategies that she was showing him so that we could do it at home too. Overall we found it a positive experience and it saved our sanity as my son's issues were impacting all of us. Sometimes if a problem feels unmanageable or overwhelming it's helpful to have someone to look at the situation with fresh eyes and get a new perspective. 

Thank you some really valid points.

We've agreed to cancel the screen locks for now as that was what upset him most - having that control taken away.  We've said he can show us that he can manage a reasonable time on screens and come off when given warning (give or take 5 mins).  This is something my husband and I need to practice patience with.  He's also come up with a list of rules he needs to stick to i.e getting chores /  basic morning routine done before gaming, not gaming whilst eating etc and he knows the consequences for if he breaks these rules.

I will look into the coding & music as he's learning the guitar.  It's hard for me to see screens/phones in a positive light as all the information we've been given since they were little is to limit it and that they can be accessible to strangers etc but we need to educate ourselves too so my boys can get the most out of it and we're not all angry and frustrated all the time.

Second, computers can be great! Programmes which teach military operations or which one can view space are designed like video games to some degree. We are using technology in everything, so it could be useful to find other ways to make it work for his future. 

Download coding programme or music software, disconnect them from the internet and allow him to play / learn something if he wants. This is the stuff he could get lost in for any length of time. I work in music and it's like playing Tetris all day. it engages my full-brain connexions, analytical and problem-solving. 

All the males in my family play games. They've grown up to be a neurologist, a maths professor, one works in a lab like CERN. My grandfather played World of Warcraft and was an engineer. My father plays 3 characters simulatiously and programmes a robot to collect uranium. 

Our brains can be non-stop. And this is simply one way of managing anxiety or winding down. It seems counter productive to further engage analytical thinking, and yet I need to exhaust it in order to sleep. Your son is at that age where it's becoming Very Clear he's different than most of his peers. Sometimes Escape helps us cope with life.

And yes, I agree it's important to mind addiction. But there are SO many other beneficial things we do with computers that aid learning. Perhaps find more things which spark his interest. 

I had thought I replied, but it seems to have disappeared. 

The first is this:

If you haven't already, it's good to understand Monotropism. Interruptions are like waking a sleepwalker. It isn't just difficult to be snapped out of a hyper-flow / hyper-focus state, it's physically painful. But you do sound reasonable, giving him warnings. I would just then allow time and room for the frustration to ease. This is a good age to help him learn to externally navigate this - it Won't Ever go away. Interruptions will always, till death do us part, destroy us. It's just part of how we're wired. So, here's an opportunity to help him get into a habit of going for a walk or doing an empty space of nothing to allow appropriate time to transition.

Nikmum said:

I have spoken to specialists / therapists about my son but perhaps the next step is for my son to see someone with or without us

It may be worthwhile discussing with your GP and school as there is quite a bit of help for autistic children available now through these organisaions.

While you wait for appointments, I recommend documenting the behaviour and maybe record the end of time allowance arguements from your first notice to the end of the shouting. Do this for a few and it will give good material for any therapist to work from.

In the meantime you could consider making the rules a little more hard-and-fast. Maybe give him a 10 minute warning then he has to hand over the devices for quarantine. No arguements, no pleading, no variation.

With more defined rules in place it should give structure he knows is unavoidable. After your initial introduction to what is going to happen, don't try to justify it again - you are the rule maker and your word is law. Make sure your husband is aware of what you plan to do and is going to support you.

In this situation I don't think that being flexible will help - he is abusing the agreed limits and he needs to know that trying to push for his way will not work.

Have an individual meetup with the therapist initially to explain your issues, give them any information / evidence to explain it and include your husbands pre-disposition to addictive behavior too. This will get them up to speed on the family situation before they start getting the input from your son who will tell the story very differently to you I'm sure.

I would suggest seeing if you can get some apps that lock down the device once the time allowance is up - this way if you are distracted then there is no further temptation.

Your som wlll probably go to friends houses to get around the restrictions, but that is unavoidable. I think it better to work on what you do have control over to regulate him.

Good luck

I have discussed with my son that we may need help from an external person and he is very against this - I'm open with him that his dad and I speak to someone who helps us with things we struggle with - his dad was recently diagnosed ASD & ADHD

My son was even very against the assessment which took place at our house & I think he gave some expected answers rather than what he would have said if he was being honest

I have spoken to specialists / therapists about my son but perhaps the next step is for my son to see someone with or without us.

My husband also can become very addictive with his phone and doesn't play computer games as he knows he is likely to become addicted.

You could have the beginnings of an addition there - the symptoms match the compulsive consumption and lashing out when forced to stop.

This is a fairly common predisposition for autists unfortunately..

Does he have a therapist for his autism yet? If not it may be worth using this as the way to get the therapist to look into this and let you know if there is an issue which needs dealing with - they are also more likely to get his trust since they are less judgemental than parents (in his eyes).

I'm not sure what the ethical bounds of therapist confidentiality are with children and parents, but I imaging they would be able to give you the high level feeback as you are the primary caregiver.

The therapist should also be able to dig into why he has such a compulsion for escapism and help him develop better coping skills for the future.

Also I feel when we are very strict with rules he becomes bitter and resentful which causes further issues.

when I try and get him to explain it further, he finds it hard to articulate and just says we're rude or unfair or much ruder names.  I"ve printed out a useful pictogram but he's not even willing to look at this to try and explain what he's feeling

It feels to me like it's more about the control aspect - as the games are never ending he will not be able to resist the urge to continue - same with videos he's watching - just mindless nonsense that he's getting sucked into and yes I agree as an escape from dealing with reality / any anxiety he's feeling.  Prior to the phone he did it with books - having read Harry Potter series over & over 

Nikmum said:

I really am at a loss as to how to communicate with him & put reasonable boundaries in place.

If I were in your situation I would make the rule enforcemeny strict - establish the need to follow them as when he has to navigate the teenage years ahead he will find more that there are people who will enforce rules much more harshly than you will for other things in life.

You can agree ways for him to earn bonus time (completing certain chores to a certain standard) so he understands the way to earn things in general. A cap on this is sensible. It could help him learn useful life skills like housework, some cooking and other tasks (cutting the grass etc) - I was doing this at his age to earn pocket money rathe than screen time.

If he is having meltdowns then it would help to work out what is the root cause - is it any kind of authority enforcement or is he "escaping" and does not like to have to come back to whatever is triggering him. In this case maybe enforce him having to play games only when around you so you can get a better feel for what is going on.

I suspect he may have found a social group online in which he has found acceptance and is resisting being pulled out of it at the end of his time allowance - is seems that sort of age to me.

When he is arguing about it, what are his reasons for wanting to continue? Are they specific about what he wants to do or are they fighting against the control?

World-building like Minecraft isn't much different than playing with Lego bricks. While games which are too easy with big rewards can be addictive, anything which engages creative production: building, making, crafting, wiring, coding, baking, and so on, actually helps all humans feel a Sense of Purpose. All advances in Technology and Civilisation move us forward because it creates an internal Reward: a Sense of Purpose. A good question to ask is what other ways can we use the computer for systems building and would he be interested in becoming proficient at it? OR should we allow these games to help alleviate anxiety, which is what happens when external forces causing stress are left unresolved.

There are a few theories here, but keep in mind Autistic and ADHD anxiety are never imagined, but situational. Unnatural elements from clothing made from polyester (a by-product of petroleum, basically plastic) to Volatile Compounds which are worse than cigarettes, to LEDs, to unprecedented and harmful levels of sound are everywhere. The modern world IS torture for us and this due to not being able to Dull our Senses the same. In the wild, in an anthropological setting our skills were crucial for discerning between toxic and healing. But a second part of this is the massive difference in communication which marginalises and dis-ables us from connecting with others, we don't just "feel" marginalised, we ARE marginalised. Our inability to pick up seemingly invisible signals and signs and what's being implied with Typical language, cause most of society to question not just our motives, but our morals! And this is the age when this divide begins to come into focus. 

Today, we use video games to teach military operations. We're using imaging in science. There's a video game structure to observing the universe and observing the human body. On a personal note, all the males in my family play video games, though easy levels didn't really exist when I was young (edit: easy levels can cause addiction). My father builds computers and is working on a robot to collect uranium. I have a brother who's a neurologist, one working at a lab like CERN and so on. 

What might be good is finding other things like Little Bits or coding programmes, maybe music programmes (I work in sound and it feels like playing Tetris all day). Perhaps you can spark his interest in computer-based building, exploring, or anything else which feels similar, perhaps you'll unlock potential AND relieve anxiety.

We need ADHD and dyslexic friends who have similar brain types. We are all stuck in a society we are a mismatch for. My son is now 25 and I let him play games through hard periods in his life and now he's on a course to become a therapist. It's pointless to leave them without tools or ways to fix a gigantic structure that many of us from 40 on are advocating to try and fix. 

But more so, perhaps schedule a family puzzle. Schedule time to engage in problem-solving / analytic games together at least once a week. This can help keep him balanced. He needs real connexion. And I didn't learn the art of investing in and growing friendships until my late 20s. We just won't connect with the Typical Majority. We're on a completely different wavelength - as different as AM and FM frequencies. It doesn't mean we cannot learn the art of building relationships and manners and ethics. It simply means humans have an ability to Sense-Perceive if they can trust someone, and this is where the Double Empathy problem becomes an issue, where, we might not relate and where the Social anxiety due to Real - not imagined - rejection begins.

The problem isn't the screen time, exactly but managing anxiety. I'll expand more on this...