Autism or neglect?

Hi Dawn,

my initial thought was the same about the mum not wanting him to grow up but then I thought about things I regularly say to my youngest son age 4 such as I wish I could keep you wee forever.

I say this as I know I won’t have anymore children & all the silly things we get up to are a lot of fun, the years fly by and knowing that I won’t ever experience that again as a mother to a child of my own can be a bit sad at times even though I can’t wait to see him grow up.

I must say though I wouldn’t intentionally hold my son back but thinking of the things I say maybe the mother made an innocent comment that’s came across a bit odd? Or maybe she’s fearful of his future and the level of care she would need to provide or who would provide that care if she was to die and that’s could also be a reason why she doesn’t want him to grow up. 

It’s really hard to know but I fully agree that by the sounds of OP post the mother and the boy need support. 

Ok, now I've read some of your other comments above, you DO need to raise your concerns with social services.

This kid's needs need to be met and it sounds like they aren't.  It may be that mum just needs a hand to properly define and meet those needs, or it could equally be a munchausen by proxy type thing, which would be just as damaging as an unmet autistic need for that kid.

Autism has various manifestations. My 12 year old son in mainstream school, can write beautifully, solve maths, is fabulous at drawing original cartoons, but he cannot step out of the house alone, not even cross the threshold of the house, won't answer the door, won't answer phone calls, cannot bathe independently, cannot even fetch himself a glass of water, or help himself to a snack to save his life. One of us had to sleep with him till he was ten. Even now some days he demands that mum or dad sleep with him as he feels scared. All this is because he has severe dyspraxia , anxiety, sensory issues in addition to ASD.  And I can tell you how bad the services are. They only provide lip service. He has an EHCP which is another eye wash.  The school puts him through a lot of nonsense on a regular because staff simply do not know how to treat people with ASD even though they claim to be experts. I feel very angry with the appalling support (or lack of) most of the LAs provide to slightly able kids. I do feel for the lady being discussed. Not sure what kind of experiences she has had to go through. I have definitely not a good experience with the LAs and I know what a lot of money and energy I have wasted only to realise the SEN services are a sham.

I think I might just leave it for a bit and see how things are at future meets. I know having a special needs child can be hard work, motherhood in general is exhausting. She's so extremely anti social services, perhaps it would cause a lot of distress.

It just saddens me that this boy might not actually have all these things, and she just doesn't want him to grow up and enjoy things other kids his age enjoy. He has very little independence, he doesn't even use the toilet without his mum, but he play tennis and draws and has the motor abilities to use a toilet. Maybe I just don't understand autism and the concern is misplaced. Everyone seems to be saying it's all normal, so maybe it is. 

Blimey! Impossible to know. This whole situation for mother and child needs looking at by someone who seriously knows what they are doing.

There are all sorts of possibilities here. The kid might be autistic (and possibly dyslexic if he's not reading) and mum is sensibly avoiding over stimulation for him. Or he's not and just manipulating mum 'cos he can.

Mum might be autistic and actually understanding her autistic child's need, or she could have some sort of MH problem; a bit munchausen??? Who are any of us to know? We can't diagnose and can't comment.

The one thing though that would have me flag this up with someone as a potential safeguarding thing is that she doesn't seem to want him to grown up...that IS worrying.

I think for you own piece of mind it would be worth while contacting social services and saying your concerns about the child and your concerns that the mother has no support and is under lots of pressure and is fearful of help. Since the mother is reluctant to make the first step maybe it would help if someone done it for her and then she may see that the social work are there to help and support the family. 

You could also offer her some support, a coffee and cake with you and her kid try and get to know her a bit better, if you have a local carers centre you could ask someone to come along to one of your meetings to talk about what a carer role is and what help is there for a family who have a person with declining health, a disability etc. It would be very informative of all the parents. I never classed myself as a carer but once it was explained to me I realised my role as carer/mum to neurodiverse children was a lot more work than a parent of a neurotypical child of the same age and that made me a carer. 

I apologise I thought when you were mentioning self diagnosis you were referring to her own self diagnosis. 

Any child who potentially has a disability deserves to have an assessment to confirm this. They have a right to support in order to thrive in their child hood and adult hood.

 I don’t know if this wee boys is being neglected but a lot of the behaviours you have described are typical autistic, PDA and adhd behaviours but again I am not qualified to diagnose or make judgment on another family. 

She isn't autistic, when I said she self diagnosed, I meant she diagnosed her son not herself. She had diagnosed him with many different things. She's diagnosed him with autism, ADHD, sensory processing disorders, eating disorders stating she's concerned he's underweight when he's actually very much the biggest boy in all our homeschool meets. She wears the sunflower disability lanyard and told other parents it's super easy to get one without a formal diagnosis.

But, how she raises her son appears to fit autism from what has been said here.

She goes to extreme lengths to write her annual reports to avoid social services, openly talks about staging photos to make it look like he's reading and writing. She does not want social social sniffing around, she does not want them involved, she does not want professional intervention. Maybe it is best to mind my own business and let her crack on. Thanks for your input. 

I had previously written a response to the response you sent me but I’ve deleted it as I don’t think your on here trying to educate yourself about autism in order to help this mum and her son.   

Are you looking for confirmation from an online forum that this mother is unfit? 

If you feel this child is in danger or being neglected  your should be immediately contacting the police or social services for them to carry out a welfare check.

Making a profile on NAS community to ask strangers who have no knowledge of this child or her mother circumstances is not ideal but I can see why you have and tbh this mother could just be saying these things to you to cut you off from asking personal questions about her and her child’s business or prying questions questioning her life style choices as she knows you and the other parents don’t agree with her beliefs.

You have said you aren’t friends you know her from a group, you are not actively involved in either of their lives so I think it would be hard for you to see the full picture of what goes on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing a bed with your child, the child could be a sleep walker he could need to sleep in his mums room for his own safety, maybe that’s the only bed he will settle in and the mum does it purely so she can sleep as it’s exhausting being autistic and parenting a child who is autistic.

The father should be more understanding regarding bed sharing and is there anyway he could home school the reading and writing part of his sons education? It’s his child too. 

I share a bed with my youngest and I shared a bed with my eldest until he was 7 the only reason he started sleeping in his own bed was because I was heavily pregnant. 
 
Do you home school your child ? Is that why you know it’s fairly easy to stay off the radar? 

I only allowed social work involvement in my childrens lives 2.5 years ago as I grew up in the care system and had many negative experiences. I believed that I was letting myself and my children down by asking for help, I kept thinking I am their parent and should be managing them and myself and I felt I would be judged on every aspect of the areas I was struggling in, thankfully I wasn’t judged and they have been an excellent support.

I think the only answer is for you to contact social work about your concerns and ask for a welfare check as otherwise this mum and child will continue to be your topic of conversations and maybe it will help the mum actually receive a diagnosis for her son and herself and potentially lead to some support. 

I think given the amount of parents who know her expressing concern, even those who have SEN children, a professional looking into the case would be better than us parents speculating. I'll give them some details and try offer the mum some support. 

It's actually fairly easy to stay off the radar when homeschooling if you have never been in the school system, which this boy hasn't. You send in a yearly report and you're pretty much left alone. She's very anti vaccination, anti school, anti education. Doesn't reach out for support because she doesn't want social services sniffing around. The more I discuss the situation with other parents who know her, the more I'm convinced something isn't quite right. Particularly co-sleeping with a boy heading for pubity, and wanting to prevent him making friends with his peers. Perhaps professional involvement would ensure the boy has access to a suitable education and the mother is supported. 

If she is autistic then that might make it difficult for her to manage, she might be on auto pilot and just stuck in a rut she can't get out of.  If she is pushing people away including social services then that isn't great - I'm surprised they let her.   You can do things your way to an extent, but beyond a certain point and it is neglect or abuse.

Best thing is to talk to social services, not in a malicious way though, just share your concerns and see if they need to be involved.

It sounds like the mother has taken herself and son out of the normal areas of medicine and education. If the child is not diagnosed, or hasn't been medically and psychologically assessed, he might have any number of conditions, or possibly none. The motivation of the mother is unclear, but does not seem to be in the child's long term interest, to put it mildly. I think that collecting all that you know about the situation and contacting the local authority seems the best thing to do for the child's welfare. 

I've known her a while, our children aren't friends but attend some of the same groups, and she's become a topic of conversation among other parents. Everyone saying the same thing with similar concerns. I just wanted to find out if this sounded familiar to other parents with autistic children, to know if the concern is misplaced or not. 

How do you know so much about her situation?

She has a husband, who has expressed his own concerns. He has been pushed out of the bed so the mother can co-sleep with the boy who will soon become a teenager.

She avoids all contact with social services, tries to keep contact with the education officer to a minimum, won't let anyone professional see him, won't take him doctors, so a proper diagnosis isn't possible rn.

She doesn't want help, in fact she actively avoids it. She has enough money to go on holiday and she certainly isn't lacking food on the table, her and her son look very well fed. 

She is not incapable, she used to do office work. Perhaps there is some mental health issues at play. Keeping him from making friends with his own age, pushing him around in a pushchair, not teaching him to read or write, it all appears like an attempt to prevent growth and keep him in that toddler phase. 

She is very well connected in homeschool community, tho she has upset a lot of families by trying to damage friendships among other parents and children. Clubs have ended as a result of her behaviour, we had a group where we met at a place run by people who work specifically with SEN children and even they raised an eyebrow and didn't want her back.

I think munchausen by proxy is a potential issue. Even if they boy is genuinely autistic, she is actively avoiding help for him, tho likes to mention autism all the time. 

It's obviously none of my business, but when does minding your own business enable child neglect? 

First of all, where is this child’s Father. Is this mother doing it ALL herself? This poor woman sounds like she could use a community of people who care about her. 

Let’s say she’s suffered neglect and abuse and is autistic. Autism is a neuro-processing which perceives and understands the world differently. Different motives.

help the mum find ground, bearings, understand boundaries, get past trauma, learn core structures of principles/ethics and ground up practical ways to THRIVE. She sounds in survival mode. Does she have money for groceries? Does she have family offering to help out?  Once she learns these things in ways Autistics understand: clear fundamental structures - never mind-reading, then the son will follow. 

NAS78759 said:

His mother has self diagnosed autism and uses it to excuse his behaviour and his lack of development.

I mean I thought diagnosis for children was fairly easy to access so I don't know why you'd feel forced to self diagnose at that age. Thats the only part of this I really find odd.

NAS78759 said:

He can verbally communicate like any other 10 year old, understands instructions, can play games requiring rules etc he can control a pen to draw. He plays computer games like minecraft. He walks and runs perfectly well. Plays tennis and swims etc

How's that relivent? Autism has nothing to do with academic capability must less athletics. I think you're confusing autism with intellectual disability.

NAS78759 said:

However, he can't read (at all), he can't write or spell.

So possibly serious dislexia? It isn't uncommon to find people with issues like dislexia along aside autism.

NAS78759 said:

He still goes in a pushchair. I know from conversations with other parents who know them that his mother still takes him to the bathroom, she bathes him and they share a bed. Whenever I've seen him have a tantrum, she starts panicking saying things like "okay okay we don't have to do that". He freaks out if his needs aren't met instantly, she has several bags with her always, containing spare clothes, medi kit, food, drinks, activities, blanket etc.

Some of that could be an indication of PDA type fetures. Eg he's not in the pushchair because he needs to be but because he's used to it and resists change (for example with tantrums). That's not so rare in autism.

NAS78759 said:

It's very odd, and I fear she's using autism to cover up the fact she's failed to teach him how to read and write. She does everything she can to prevent tantrums, she panders to his behaviour. If he doesn't want to do something, he doesn't do it simple.

The so called tough love approach to autistic children tantrums can sometimes make things much much worse. However if you truly believe the child isn't being educated you could write a letter to the local education authority (usually the council or a body the council sets up to do the job for them). However I doubt they'll be particularly concerned if it merely turns out the parent in this case is simply adopting a very liberal approach to educating a child with special needs. The law only says children need to be educated not that they need to be educated in a particular way. Homeschoolers are free to depart from the national curriculum and normal means of school disaplin so long as their children are learning.

Ultimately it's non of my business, I just worry for the future of this young boy. She's openly said she doesn't want him to grow up and wants to shelter him, I suppose taking your child to the toilet, bathing them, pushing them around in a pushchair and avoiding teaching them any reading and writing is a good way to keep them young and needing you. It could be a simple case of munchausen syndrome by proxy. Using terms like autism stops people asking questions. The more I think about it, the more likely you would seek out a proper diagnosis and professional support if it was genuinely the case that he had autism. Will have to see how it unfolds, I just hope she isn't the next newspaper article used as a weapon against home eductors. 

Thank you for your reply, that's interesting about needing a pushchair as a safe space. The child has never been to school, and so doesn't have a formal diagnosis, the mother doesn't either, she has self diagnosed.

So far the child has remained unseen except by a dentist. She avoids doctors and is anti vaccination. She hasn't been seen in person by an education welfare officer. She takes a lot of photos of him doing sports and meet ups, but according to another mother she avoids mentioning his literacy and math in reports.

You wouldn't expect a child that can play sports and computer games to require help using the toilet or shower, but perhaps there's some unique motor skills he's lacking. I do feel she takes him out and about to entertain him and ensure she gets lots of photos of him doing activities for reports, but doesn't encourage any development of essential skills like reading or writing. She is very much dictated to by his feelings, she'll do whatever it is he wants, she'll take his lead on everything, panic when he's panicking. I'm still concerned it's more learnt behaviour than a disability. 

I don't think she'd be open to a parent carer assessment tbh, she would avoid them at all costs. She avoids asking for help to avoid the social services. 

Has the child in question ever attended a main stream school? Maybe the parent has choose home schooling as she has trauma from her education years? Maybe her child has had no support to thrive in school and he could have potentially been in complete distress sensory overloaded and unable to learn? The school maybe under budgeted and not able to  provide the one to one support the child would need and she’s had no choice but to homeschool ad best as she can.

mainstream schools are not autistic friendly and the teachers don’t have in-depth training in how to educate neurodiverse children, the whole curriculum caters to neurotypical children you should watch Harry Thomsons PDA expert videos on how traumatic mainstream schools are to autistic children. His you tube channel is incredibly educational. 

Both of my child are diagnosed autistic my eldest is PDA ASD and he is now coming to the end of his primary education nearly 12 years old and majority of writing is done by his pupil support assistant scribing for him or he can type with support on a computer. When he first start his new school he was given a device he could speak into and it would write his word on the screen for him. As he had delayed language he struggled greatly with the device. He is dyslexic and has zero confidence in writing he has just learned to read over the past 2 years but he cannot spell his surname or tell you his address and he still struggles with reading which knocks his confidence and he becomes embarrassed and gives up and is mentally unable to continue due to his PDA extreme anxiety. He also had stress induced tics due to the anxiety around school and the amount of pressure he is under.

My youngest who is 4 and will be 5 this year is still in a nhs wheelchair services disability pram for his safety and it’s his safe space while out to prevent him being overwhelmed. I know several children who are autistic and in a wheel chair that can swim or do other physical activities. An nhs disability pram caters up to the age of 7 I’m sure and then after you are offered a wheel chair from wheelchair services. Some autistic people struggle with walking long distances and physically can’t push them selfs to continue. They can become completely sensory overload with people, cars, noise lights movements and the pram is a safe place to retreat to.

My eldest was never in the pram by the age of 4.5 but tbh if he was diagnosed earlier then a he was I would have had him in a pram for his own safety and my safety as he has a lot of risk taking behaviours and even now he wouldn’t think twice to lying down on the pavement if he was to exhausted to carry on and if pushed this can lead to a meltdown. This is why I was so focused on passing my driving test to make my childrens life’s much more easier and mine too. 

There really isn’t a way to avoid social services if they feel a child’s needs aren’t being meet they would be enforcing a welfare check and the parent has a duty to provide the catchment area school or local authority proof that her child is receiving a level of education. The local authorities have a duty to do checks so there really wouldn’t be a way to avoid these checks and if she was ignoring the visits the local authority would have to contact social services. 

Even if a child is able bodied and takes part in sports doesn’t mean they don’t need a pram or wheelchair. 

This lady has a ASD diagnosis and it’s important to remember she has a hidden disability and could potentially be unable/struggle to read and write herself.

You said her child is attending swimming and tennis it really doesn’t sound like she’s a “lazy” parent. 

She would benefit from a parent carer assessment to identify her needs as a parent to a child with a disability and the child would would benefit from a child disability assessment also to identify support needed and potentially a self direct support budget.