Hate and unconstitutional thinking taking over

I had the joy (sarcasm!!!) to start reading the Project 2025 manuscript before the last election. Shocking… That‘s a manual on how to become a dictator. And so many factors (like replacing key positions in the political and legal system with MAGA fanatics). I couldn‘t finish it for the sake of my sanity.

I’ve just read the article, it’s carefully worded. There are 270 million adults in the USA, the cost would be $1.3 trillion.

The article states that his name also can’t appear on the ballot paper again, but I’m sure it will, I think the rule will change to not being elected more than twice consecutively. He will be 82 by then, I believe he campaigned that Joe Biden should not have stood for reelection at the age of 81.

On the news today Trump is offering 5000 dollars to all citizens if Republicans win mid term elections? Wondering if I heard that correctly. That doesn't sound like democracy.

I think most people have lived through all this before, from Thatcher onwards and wold know it dosen't work by now and the rich just get richer.

I'm a Grumpy too, so don't worry about it

I think you've got to ask why we are seeing the rise of these what are terned "extreme right-wing" parties in Europe nowadays.Usually, there are pre-existing conditions that provide the breeding grounds such parties to develop and in this case, I think it's because the political balance between the right and left has become distorted over recent years and many people who are note particularly woke -minded or have socialist attitudes feel they no longer have a voice through the existing political party system, so turn to those who appear to offer a fresh approach. We've seen this in the UK with the rise of the Reform party since the traditional two-party system that has been going since the first world war has essentially broken down and focused mainly on the trying to please everyone, while displeasing many.

These days I rarely agree with anyone - it was a wry joke. Sorry - I should have explained. I think I'm becoming Ms Grumpy in old age.

Exactly!

Why's it surprising we agree Marianne, we both come from similar backgrounds and are a similar age?

Yet another non-religious person here lol (agnostic atheist). Your prayer reminds me of St. Patrick’s Rune, which was famously utilized in Madeleine L’Engle’s book A Swiftly Tilting Planet:

At Tara today in this fateful hour
I place all Heaven with its power,
And the sun with its brightness,
And the snow with its whiteness,
And fire with all the strength it hath,
And lightning with its rapid wrath,
And the winds with their swiftness along their path,
And the sea with its deepness,
And the rocks with their steepness,
And the earth with its starkness
All these I place,
By God's almighty help and grace,
Between myself and the powers of darkness.

Beautiful ️ 

I am religious, though not a monotheist, and once used a favourite old Christian prayer as a jumping-off point to write this, which still comforts me:

Let nothing befear thee: let nothing befright thee;
The darkness has passed and dawn's glory is here.
The wingtips that brushed thee, are driven before thee;
The gods shall watch o’er thee, oh child of their heart.

No nightmare shall harm thee, by darkness or daylight;
No creature shall haunt thee; in spirit or mind.
This thing that assailed thee, shall not dent thy courage;
Nor any more like it, o’ercome thy bright strength.
By this song I wash thee, of all of that evil;
Be free as thou once were, oh dear to their heart

Surprisingly, I would agree with most of what you write, TheCatWoman . My father was all, 'she'll get a job and start earning' whilst mother wanted the reflected 'glory' of my going to University - neither cared about what I wanted. I remember the NF [father was a member at one time, to my shame], skinheads and rioting in the city centre. Even the police had areas they were reluctant to attend.

But, I do see hope in Burnham and Rayner, who have an inkling of working class culture and values. I had a 40 year working life among middle class people, who assumed the working classes were like Eastenders characters and treated me with disdain or fear. When I spoke up for myself or a cause, you could see fear in their eyes - because I spoke with autistic passion and a strong West Midlands accent! The upper classes have confidence from their 'breeding' and don't need to be snobbish like many middle class women. I found a number who were pleasant when I met them, for example at country shows or meetings at SPAB [Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings] and never felt put down. I think many working class people have similar values to the 'uppers' so that kind of relationship can work. 

Society fluctuates and with social media and the like, I think it will be easier for younger people to protest their views and have a voice, more so than we had. They have better access to news and can form opinions - though influencers are a concern for the disaffected and easily led. I'm glad I lived when I did because in spite of the shortages and difficulties with income, life seemed quieter and more stable.

TheCatWoman said:

I think Reform are thinking the previously unthinkable and considering ditching Farage

As Farage's parties tend to be focussed on him, they have a track record of collapsing if he leaves. I have no idea whether the Reform bandwagon has the momentum to continue without him but even if it did, I imagine it will be rats fighting in a sack.

One of the things thats always confused me, is that people believe a bunch of self serving multimillionaire business people are going to do anything substantive to improve the lives of ordinary people. They'll get rid of red tape to "help" businesses and get Britain working again, so that mean no employee protections, no minimum wage, no environmental protections, more private ownership of infrastructure and things that are held in the public domain, like health. 

Cutting benefits, so they'll make poor people poorer and homeless, most people on benefits are in work already, they need higher wages to get off benefits.

If we leave the EHCR then we'll become a pariah state and no one will do deals with us about returning migrants, its all very well saying they'll remove migrants, but to where?

Reform loves it when other political parties are accused of or found guilty of wrong doing, they never let it rest, but even the slightest hint that they may have done something wrong and it's all a conspiracy by the "Establishment". I'm reminded of Kenneth WIlliams character in Carry On Screaming, 'Infamy, Infamy, they've all got it in for me'. Did Farage and Reform really not expect to come under the same sort of scrutiny that others do?

I think Reform are thinking the previously unthinkable and considering ditching Farage, its obvious Zia Usuff see's himself as the next leader, as does Robbert Jennrick. Lelia Cunningham, Reform's candidate for London Mayor, is said be distancing herself from Farage and Reform in general, I saw her on fridays Newsnight and it was the only time she looked and sounded normal rather than a swivel eyed loon, controlled by wires off screen somewhere.

I think one of the alarming things about this black clad mob who were in Dover at the weekend, is they call themselves soldiers and an army. Apparently they've been learning about sectarian paramilitary activities in Northern Ireland and that should worry all of us. I'm old enough to remember IRA bombings and every xmas thinking 'if I go to London today for shopping, what ill I do if theres a bomb', I wasn't scared it was just an inevitability that there would be a big explosion in London somewhere, as regular as turning on the lights in Blackpool. I'd hate for that sort of feeling to become commonplace again.

I think that while Reform were very fringe they could get away with promising the moon on a stick, but once they became a serious threat the media, very belatedly, started asking them serious questions and expecting reasoned replies, like they would with any real political party (Reform is a private company rather than a conventionally organised party). They seldom got or get reasoned replies, or any indication of the existence of any rational set of real-world policies. Some parts of the media also did a little digging and came up with all the serious financial criminality that is now common knowledge..

I‘m honestly at a point where I consider my options for the future and one of them absolutely includes leaving the country.

Another option is leaving the country. It is extreme, but at certain times I think it is right.

Some disagree, and there are also good reasons to disagree.

Having come from a working class background and thinking of the people I grew up around, I think many of them are innately conservative in thier attitudes and have a deep distrust of the middle classes, the upper classes are seen as OK and something to be tolerated and poked fun at.

A lot of working class communities were really hit hard by deindustrialisation, whole ways of life were wiped out practically overnight, people were proud of thier communities, of thier work and what it brought. When one or two major employers leave an area then everything else falls too, hter local cafes, pubs and clubs. 

Many do not value and never have valued education, its seen as something your made to do before you can do a proper job and be a wage earner. It's a pattern I've seen within my own family, people stopped from going to grammar school or higher education and the distrust of what those things can bring. Theres a fear that being educated will take you away from "us", make you ashamed of "us". This is probably confirmed when people like social workers, teachers etc start trying to tell everyone how to live. For those who live in communities that have been ripped apart by deindusrialisation, where you may have two or three generations of unemployment, it feels really insulting.Theres a tendency to sort of circle the wagons and see off anyone else.

It dosen't help that there are so few resourses for peope who were born and bred here, even naturalised immigrants see and feel it too, people see money, time and effort being given to new arrivals and want to know where its all comming from and why are they so low on the council housing list. 

People want simple answers and are unprepared for the complexity of politics or of life. People want fair and life isn't fair, it never has been, but now I think a lot of people have been robbed of the illusion of fairness, the far right likes simple solutions, they won't be able to fulfil those promises if they get into government, but they'll find another target to blame before finally turning on each other.

The left on the other hand, is no longer a party for the "woking man", it's included other groups and those differently marginalised, I think a lot of people feel that it dosent' belong to them anymore.

Unlike the far right, the left fights like rats in a sack before they ever get to power, which is why they so often don't.

Another problem in the UK is we don't really have a consititution, more a vague set of ideas, that need experts to explain, it's not something you can study, theres no document to look at and challenge, or agree with.

I'm old enough to remember the National Front and all the skin heads rampaging about, it didn't feel safe, the 1980's didn't feel safe either, there was a period afte the end of the cold war where things felt they were getting better for everyone or at least had the potential to, but now nothing feels safe. Again