Anew government

Iain said:

A hell of a lot of what Debbie lists as the achievements are very hard to quantify as the statistics created by the civil service are lacking in context and are, well open to interpritation. As the old saying goes, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

1. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
2. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
3. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
4. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
5. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
6. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
7. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
8. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
9. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
10. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
11. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
12. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
13. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
14. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
15. Banned fox hunting.
16. Free TV licences for over-75s.
17. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
18. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
19. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
20. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
21. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
22. Free eye test for over 60s.
23. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
24. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
25. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

TheCatWoman said:

what did for Gordon Brown and the state of economy was the financial crisis that started in America and spread around the world

The lack of bank and lending organisation regulation was ultimately behind this - lack of oversight from the government made this a whole lot worse.

Then there was his selling off of half the countries gold reserves at the lowest price in 20 years - very shady.

And backing Tony Blairs lies about the war against Iraq leading to massive costs and loads of lost lives.

A hell of a lot of what Debbie lists as the achievements are very hard to quantify as the statistics created by the civil service are lacking in context and are, well open to interpritation. As the old saying goes, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

There is no doubt that Labout presided over a very successful period in our countries history, but they also presided over an unprecedented crash in 2008.

The Conservatives also presided over a preriod or prosperity early in their terms but it was destroyed by a bunch of poor leaders and a financial ciris (covid), much like when Labour changed to Gordon Brown.

My conclusion is that the parties are not inherently good or bad, but mostly preside over a period of good financial climate with a capable leader followed by less competent leaders and hard times.

The pattern seems to repeat

It will be interesting how well Keir does when the financial outlook remains so difficult thanks to global conditions, immigration and Russia all pressing on the economy.

I disagree that Labour will always raise taxes and bankrupt the country, what did for Gordon Brown and the state of economy was the financial crisis that started in America and spread around the world. I remember other world leaders coming to Brown for advice on how to fix things.

Obviously covid and the war in Ukraine were things beyond anyones control and have left us in a financial mess, we will need to pay tax in order to pay back the money used to for furlough and to cushion energy prices.

i don't want a small state and low tax, I want a state that looks after its people, for to long we've been led to believe we can have champagne services on a beer budget and the state of things now is the result.

I would hate to see Reform becoming a bigger force in politics, they're racist, homophobic and misogynistic. They would really like to do away with the NHS altogether and would probably do away with all sort of public services. How do you think it would effect people like us, who use public services probably more than others?

Corbyn isn't in the labour party and I doubt if they'd let him back in anyway, let alone be leader/PM, he had his chance and lost it. No doubt Starmer will facce challenges with his back benchers, it's how he deals with those challenges that will make or break his leadership, but as he's only been in the job 24 hours I think it's a bit premature to be writing him off already.

Like many other countries around the world we have an aging population, we need a level of immigration to fill the jobs we have, where would the care sector be without migrants, or the NHS? We also need to train and retrain our own people and not allow companies to just bring in more people to fill roles at lower wages. All that does is suppress wage growth and increase the tax avoiding global corporate entities avenues for exploitation. Japan has an aging population, a stagnant economy, low migration and elderly people dying and not being found for days or weeks, is that what we want for ourselves?

The new government will have to try very, very hard to equal the old in squalid sex scandals, lying, jobbery, corruption, stupidity and shambolic ineptitude.

Capitalism red in tooth and claw, and the Devil take the hindmost. A society where the wealthy do not support the destitute or the ill, or the disabled, because they are not forced to do so by government, is not a society I would care to be a part of. I am happy to pay the taxes that support others less fortunate than me, the same cannot be said for many tax-dodging international conglomerates or for many millionaires and billionaires.

I don't know if he can replace Starmer though. Corbyn is an independent now. In order to be the leader of Labour doesn't one need to be a Labour MP? 

Unless they accept him back into the party. 

What Corbyn says still stands true. The distribution of wealth needs to occur to fund society. Otherwise we won't grow. 

Here are some of Labour's achievements during their last period in government, lending a lie to the idea that nothing ever changes or is achieved:

https://www.shrewsburylabour.org.uk/labours-top-50-achievements/

Nicely put Pegg, I echo the sentiment.

Ben

I predict a vote of no confidence in Keith Starmer within a few months and Jeremy Corbyn replacing him as a true socialist prime minister. 

My problem with Reform's good stuff like the NHS things, is that it is just bribery to get people on board with the immigrants stuff too. It's not in their 'principles' like Former Member points out. I honestly don't think they give a crap about the NHS and say stuff like that purely to win votes. (I realise that you can apply this to all parties, but with Reform it is just so obvious and cringe and soul destroying)

yes but will he cut taxes that is the best way to stimulate growth remember other than Blair Labours DNA is to tax and spend which does not work 

Ah yes, "hope and change"...

I hope so the only issue is if you give them too much then other public sectors will ask for more and you create inflation which makes us all poorer .My gripe with Doctors is is not doing a job like that more about helping than earning ?

I think their life experiences help to understand others too. If you have lived a life where at some time you have struggled, particularly financially, I think it makes it easier to help others who find it hard. I think this is not only true in politics but also if you are doing a job where you communicate with people who find things hard.

your words are true I fear though that in their DNA Labour raise taxes and bankrupt the Country we need a low tax small state economy then you will find everything is high class over taxing stops growth and the state are useless at spending money efficiently.

Although I have issues with Reform on what they say about immigration and I would never vote for them their policy of earn 20k before you pay any tax and an insurance based system for the NHS where the less well of do not pay is a top idea equally P.R. for elections is spot on

I've always voted on the governing principles of the parties involved ie what they stand for, what matters to them, who or what they care for.

This is a good analysis of that.

https://juristopedia.com/blog/labour-party-vs-conservative-party/

Just think about the basis of these parties ie aristocracy v working class.

When the Tory party was founded working class people and women didn't even have a vote and it was many years later that they did and the Labour party was formed.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/02/07/the-forgotten-victory-votes-for-working-class-men/

I'm from a working class background, care very much about the disenfranchised and care about society as whole.

So, for me, there has never been any doubt which party aligns with my own values and which party will be of greater benefit to those members of society who most need support.

When people say dismissively 'they are all the same' - 'nothing will change' they are simply wrong.

It wasn't the Tories who initiated the creation of the NHS and the welfare state but Labour and the Liberals.

Egalitarianism v elitism.

Still.

After all these years.

I believe Wes Streeting is meeting the doctors next week, so hopefully any further strikes will be averted and things will start to improve for the NHS.

If we are going to call people who think differenlty to us rude names, then there's way more braindead sheep voting than the tiny goups you identified...

The very low turnout tells the real story of how empowered people feel by the current electoral process, which needs reforming...

Happily, Kier has won  I hope that he will be successful in stabilizing the country, bringing some dignity back to British politics and stemming the tide of populism that threatens our democracy. 

4m.

Virtually the same number who.voted for UKIP in 2015 when they stood a similar number of seats. 

In spite of all the media hype concerning the 'rise' of Reform, it's the same party renamed, and it has its party faithful. 

Like it or not, there are millions of racist, misogynistic, homophobic voters out there, who want their country back- a land of white male supremacy, unchallenged by anybody.