I'm afraid the wheels will come off.

please disregard this post. It is being made purely to prevent this thread being deleated in the upcoming forum upgrade.

Ann :) said:

do you think you might be able to do some aging research in a lab whose focus is not directly anti-aging? Are you mainly doing computational work? Or also wet-lab? You mention that wanting to stay in the North of England is restricting your options, is there any possibility that you take a job in another area but work remotely for a large part of the time?

I doubt I could do anti ageing work out of the field but if I still stay in the wider area of the field it might provide a rout back at a later date. My work is 100% computational. I'm looking at remote working but it's not like they offer that. You have to apply then ask for it which is a bit intimidating.

Ann :) said:

Have you started applying for jobs? I've been through the application process myself recently (and that was much easier as it was only for a research assistant post, though even for that there were often multiple rounds of interviews with presentations etc....) and I know it's not easy but once you get going it gets better and it can actually be relatively exciting.

Not really. I can't seem to find anything that fits the bill.

Ann :) said:

Have you considered applying for your own grant?

Yes there is one very long shot in the offing but my boss has been very discouraging about my chances.

Ann :) said:

Are there any people from your lab or through your research that you could connect to?

Not really. I'm on good terms with them but I work remotely and socially I kept them at arms length. I didn't want to loose my job (or have to go to employment tribunal) if I accidentally offended one with a joke for instance.

Ann :) said:

Do you have any other special interests (apart from the anime) that you could connect to people through?

Not really. Everything I might name would be anime like. Cosplay, video games, sci fi. The kind of stuff you find in student societies. ... Wine and cheese nights and book clubs not so much. That kind of thing bores me silly. I guess I don't make a very good 'adult.' Even war gaming, DnD, MTG, and fantasy LARP (some of my friends were into that) is pretty boring to me.

Ann :) said:

When I finally made up my mind to leave (I had been stuck because I was so low and denergised that I felt incapable of even sending a job application and also I felt like I was the problem so no matter where I went I would just run into the same problems) and when I sent that first job application, it was like a switch had been flicked and my mood and energy was instantly better.

The thing is I quite like this job. It just inevitably ends on new years eve.

Hi, this resonates with me a lot- medical professionals and counsellors so far have not managed to improve my mental health (only make it worse... ) except from my dietitian who is the only professional that has been able to help me (and mostly with non-food related issues).  Writing a book sounds like an amazing thing to do- it really helps when you have something productive and useful to do that you enjoy! I also find that I do so much better when I have some kindof aim or purpose. The challenge is finding the right aim/thing- if too burnt out it cannot be too taxing- in the past i used to love planning hiking trips - that always gave me such a boost as it had all this planning involved from booking huts, to planning route, to organising equipment, training etc etc. (unfortunately the past years this has not been possible due to injuries). Work/studies has also served as an aim for me but it has been failing recently as I am too exhausted. I agree that what works in terms of improving mental health is so so personal. I know I need an aim/ something to do but it can be hard to balance that with the need for rest too. 

I'm so glad you didn't believe your teachers- It's so presumptious of them to even think that they can judge the quality of poetry and stories- it's a matter of taste ! It makes me mad though- they should be encouraging people to explore what they love and boost confidence and not shoot them down and make them feel incompetent and small. 

HI Peter

I wanted to say few words about depression problem

I know how you 're feeling now, more or less, I've been in a similar situation myself few years ago, and I was revisiting thoughts about ending it all permanently as well

Antidepressants suck big time, existing 'advice and support' is actual;ly doing nothing except making you relive painful moments so they could satisfy their curiosity, and then there is 'there is nothing we can do, we exploited all options' or other crap

I made it through by following routine, the day planned from getting up to going to bed, and going to work and restocking shelves,in supermarket keeping my mind busy and away from bad thoughts, at least until I got home, sudoku is a good idea, perfect for a break time at work, I found hashish helping, at least so I could relax a bit, and watch a movie, eat a dinner and go to bed, and like that for months, just hanging there

Sometime during that period I met someone who might potentially become my 3rd friend, he is a poet, and probably because of his influence I felt like 'Ok let's give it a go and see if I can do it'' and i did write my first story and few poems, teachers at school convinced me I'm hopeless in that area and i believed it until now, but they were wrong.

Now I have an emergency plan, a sort of radical solution to all problems, I'm writing a book, and  it keeps me busy at home, and since I started I gradually started improving, and I'm good again now.

You need to find yours radical solution.

Hi Peter, I saw your post a few weeks ago when you originally posted and I have meant to reply ever since but only just got the time. The job situation sounds difficult and sadly I hear of so many people ending up in complicted, unfair or difficult situations in academia. But I can relate to how much joy this kind of work can give. I am a developmental neurobiologist though I am still in the very early stages of my career (I have a master's and I am now a research assistant as my previous attempt at finding a PhD place ended in a disaster. But hopefully next year I will finally start a PhD). Anti-aging seems to become a more and more popular field and aging is so relevant to many other fields (eg. neurodegeneration, cancer, stem cell maintenance/aging)- do you think you might be able to do some aging research in a lab whose focus is not directly anti-aging? Are you mainly doing computational work? Or also wet-lab? You mention that wanting to stay in the North of England is restricting your options, is there any possibility that you take a job in another area but work remotely for a large part of the time? I'm not sure how feasible that is as I am a wet lab scientist myself but maybe it is worth looking into? I know some of my computational biology friends only go into the office once a week or even less so depending on how flexible they are you might be able to negotiate an arrangement where you could work from home for longer stretches of time? I'm sorry if this is completely unrealistic. 

Have you started applying for jobs? I've been through the application process myself recently (and that was much easier as it was only for a research assistant post, though even for that there were often multiple rounds of interviews with presentations etc....) and I know it's not easy but once you get going it gets better and it can actually be relatively exciting. For me everything was very last minute so I had to change field and apply to positions I would probably not even have considered otherwise- it was somewhat different for me as I was not looking for a long term job (only for a year or a bit more) so I tried to prioritise having a good environment in the lab and I am now actually quite interested and fascinated by the research in my new lab. I do realise though that as a postdoc you probably will be even more selective in terms of projects etc- but I guess you are also more able to develop and follow your own ideas? Have you considered applying for your own grant? That could give you more flexibility (I have a postdoc friend who has her own funding and it has helped her a lot and given her much more independence and flexibilit). It might help too once you start applying for jobs if you haven't already- it might give you a feeling of being more in control and more proactive and even if you get it you still don't have to take it but then you will at least not have to worry about the unemployment so much and will have something to focus on. As I was in a rush I ended up just applying for everything that seemed somewhat reasonable and that I was qualified for in a certain location (plus a few extra jobs that caught my eye in other places that I was not so sure about whether I would want to live there...)- I realised I could not expend too much energy agonising about each job advert and debating whether I really wanted the job or not as probalby I was not going to get it anyways- so my moto ended up being 'apply first, think later' (though I was in a somewhat different situation possibly and I did urgently need a job). I am really sorry if this is not helpful, I do come from a different field and different career stage so maybe none of this applies. 

Regarding the social situation, it sounds difficult. I had a friend who was suicidal in the past and at the time I was one of the main people she was confiding it, which was very hard as I was struggling a lot with my own mental health at the time. It's hard. 

Are there any people from your lab or through your research that you could connect to? Most of my friends are fellow scientists- that is what I like to talk and think about most so it's nice if I can just have fun science related conversations with friends. Do you have any other special interests (apart from the anime) that you could connect to people through? I know this is easier said than done.... when I am overwhelmed, exhausted and lonely, I don't have the energy to go meet new people or put myself in new situations... 

I have suffered a lot with low mood, burnout (depression), issues around eating etc. and I have realised that the situation we are in can have a huge huge impact on mental health- for me it was being stuck in a lab/job in Germany that wasn't right for me and where I (probably) had been exploited. I felt like what I was doing had no meaning (didn't trust data anymore, questionable practices) and there was no support at work, plus having worked unpaid for 6 months also made me feel confused and underappreciated. I also kept thinking it was all my fault and there was something wrong with me. I felt isolated and lonely and was worried about not fitting in. I had noone to talk to about science in that job either. I was extremely depressed, even suicidal. When I finally made up my mind to leave (I had been stuck because I was so low and denergised that I felt incapable of even sending a job application and also I felt like I was the problem so no matter where I went I would just run into the same problems) and when I sent that first job application, it was like a switch had been flicked and my mood and energy was instantly better. That is how I knew it was the right choice and it made me realise how situations/environments can have a massive impact on mental health. I think doctors often think of mental health issues as something that is wrong/broken/dysfunctional within the individual- something they can  treat with medication or therapy, but they do not put enough emphasis on the role of the environment and that sometimes we can change the environment and make a huge improvement to our mental health. This is sad, sometimes I feel like a lot of people must be stuck in situations that make them very unhappy/depressed, they are given medication which numbs some of the pain but ultimately remain stuck. Of course changing environment is not the whole answer- It would be a lie if I said that I have been doing brilliantly- I moved back to UK, started a new job etc. and I have been struggling to cope but I think I made the right choice, it did help and this is the first step to being able to better deal with stress/anxiety. If you are in a job/ situation in life which is having a negative impact, it is so so hard to even work on intrinsic factors that could impact on mental health. Sometimes I think that depression is a way of our bodies showing us that something is wrong and needs to be changed- the question is what is it that needs to change? Sorry I have been rambling on for so long.  I think what I am trying to say is that it sounds to me like it is not surprising that you might be feeling depressed/struggling to cope- it sounds like you are in a difficult situation not only with work but also socially and with family. What helps me is if I try to find some aspect of my unhappy situation that I might be able to control and then I try to come up with a plan- once I start planning I start feeling a bit better and then I can see more clearly and try to move forward. It's not that easy, I struggle a lot too and a lot of these things I changed/did took me weeks/months and inhuman effort. 

I really hope you are a feeling a little better already than when you posted this. Sending you lots of solidarity! Take care!! 

Best, Ann 

PS- if you ever need someone to chat about science to- I am always up to that- and I don't mind at all which field- I can get fascinated by pretty much anything :) 

Hello @Peter 

I’m sorry you are going through such a tough time, it’s good that you’ve let us know what’s happening/how you feel. Many people have similar thoughts when coping with so much and we hope you’re okay.  

 If you are unable to cope with the distress or despair, it’s very important to tell someone about your feelings or thoughts of suicide. Call your GP and make an urgent appointment. Your GP can make sure you get appropriate help and support. 

  If it’s outside your GP hours call  111 to reach the NHS 111 service: 

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/urgent-and-emergency-care-services/when-to-use-111/ 

 The Samaritans also provide confidential non-judgemental emotional support, 24 hours a day on 116 123, or by email on jo@samaritans.org. 

 MIND have information pages on coping with self harm or suicidal feelings based on the experiences of people who’ve been through it that you may find helpful.  

 If you are very close to doing something to hurt yourself - call 999 now or go to your nearest A&E department. There should be someone there to support you and make sure you get ongoing support. 

You can find more information here: 

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/suicide 

All the best.

ChloeMod

The answer has to come from within. Some support mechanisms are inhabited by Snakes and Vultures. But I'm fortunate to have an understanding Key Worker. 

As an aside CBT for anxiety / depression really only makes sense when it’s based in something irrational. If you go through the CBT process and it confirms to you that A) your anxieties are based in rational concerns and B) there is little if anything you can do to effect the outcome of the situation. That’s not going to help. I don’t know why everyone medical thinks CBT is some sort of wonder therapy really it’s pretty limited.

It’s a nice thought but really what suport? I can’t very well talk to my dad or brother about how, amoung at other things, the prospect of my dad moving away with his secret wife is making me literally have suicidal thoughts. I’d be accused of emotional blackmail. I can’t tell my other friend because she is literally already being treated for suicidal thoughts herself. I’m one of the few sources of reliable support she has.

ive looked at IAPTs but all that’s available is the same depression course I’ve already done. A CBT workbook and an hours telephone call one a month to discuss what I’ve filled in. I don’t think that’s going to help me.

I could go to my GP but all they’re going to do is try to put me back on anti depressants and maybe refer me to the afore mentioned CBT workbook service.

the ‘standard’ sources of support are not really viable here. 

Peter.

Through a different lens, I can summarise and regurgitate some of your own writing above as follows;

JOB - I have one and I've even got the energy and drive at the moment to be actively looking for another one if I need to change jobs soon.

SOCIAL LIFE & HOME LIFE - I have a home.  I have a life.  I can drive to see my family and friends without it being a special occasion.  I have a close relationship to my brother and I am blessed to love (and live with) my dad for company.  I even have the rare pleasure of having a fellow autistic to call my friend.

DEPRESSION - This has been in my rear-view mirror for a while now.  I don't feel the need to do antidepressants again because life at the moment doesn't merit the downsides of them that I have been fortunate to learn about a while ago.

Now surely, that doesn't sound so bad does it?

Room for improvement = always, but your current - as we speak - situation is OK brother.

You are perhaps just experiencing a bad bout of catastrophising at the moment AKA you have extrapolated and integrated your worst fears for the future into your current reality here and now as if they have already occurred.  They haven't happened - they are still just risks that might never materialise.

I most certainly catastrophise too regularly and note that many others in these pages also suffer with the problem.

Ride this one out Peter.  You are lucid and structured in your thinking = great news.  When you find yourself dwelling on the future, try to swap out the "Oh God, I might loose my job" for "Oh well, this is an opportunity to find a better job."  Fantasize about how great it could turn out to be.  Our propensity to catastrophise can be balanced out by our capacity to fantasize amazing outcomes too.  Evolution is good at providing every brain with the capacity for balancing intensities of Ying and Yang!

Amazingly good things happen unexpectedly too.  Remember some of them from your past.  We all have them.

All my best wishes to you whilst to hang on in there - I hope some of the above can give you a little boost of help.

Hi @NAS69018, I am sorry to hear that you are going through such a challenging time. 

If you feel that you might need some support with your mental health, you can find advice and information on how to go about seeking help, including links to other resources and details of helplines and listening support services, here: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/seeking-help. 

Best wishes,

Anna Mod

Autonomistic said:

Not only is your employer not being honest with you but they are expecting your co-operation in their deception.

I believe they honestly believed what they told me at the job interview. But I expect as often happened the plans changed and my boss wasn't keen to spell out that the parameters of my job had changed.

Autonomistic said:

I assume you will be required to make some sort of presentation at the conference and then possibly answer questions about it.

Yes but if so it will be technical. Issues of time spent here or there aren't likely to come up. It's more likely to come up in conversation.

Autonomistic said:

Might there be opportunities elsewhere to pursue the kind of human ageing research you are interested in? Could you combine that with your knowledge of autism?

Of course I'm looking but this field is very niche. And the application of my key skills are only slightly less niche too. Really systems biology doesn't have application outside of medical / biological research. I don't think there is much scope for autism research to be involved or useful here.

Autonomistic said:

They might be just dreams at the moment and you are worrying unnecessarily.

He seemed pretty clear his plan was to move far away and possibly out of the country.

Autonomistic said:

Have you discussed with your father his plans to move abroad?

This is the same man who a week before his wedding when me and my brother told him we felt uneasy with the amount of secrecy around his relationship told us there was nothing we needed to know. A few days later he was telling us he was getting married in 3 days. He's not open to being open about his plans, for what ever reason.

Autonomistic said:

If so could you possibly explain to the group leader how much this negatively impacted you at the time and ask to be re-admitted to the group?

This and the issue of autism was raised. And they basically said they didn't care. Then I sued them and settled out of court. Mainly because I was worried about a potential situation where I might win and still have to pay them a lot of money, such is our legal system. I think it's safe to say there is no prospect of a return soon.

Autonomistic said:

Alternatively are there any similar groups you could join?

There aren't. I've even tried to create them for that reason, with no success.

You are facing a lot of potential major life changes, something that autistic people find particularly difficult. Much of the situation is uncertain and out of your direct control. However I think you already know that catastrophising about possible scenarios is not helpful and uses up a lot of mental energy unnecessarily.

From what you have said it sounds the job is very different to what you were led to believe. Furthermore you are now being asked to keep quiet about that. I would not feel at all comfortable with that either. Not only is your employer not being honest with you but they are expecting your co-operation in their deception. I assume you will be required to make some sort of presentation at the conference and then possibly answer questions about it. I think in that situation I would say that I will answer any questions honestly.  

Just because this research job may end shortly doesn't mean that there won't be other opportunities available. Dealing with uncertainty is difficult. Try and gather as much information as you can from your employer to try and assess what is actually going to happen with the funding. However they may not be honest with you about that either.

Might there be opportunities elsewhere to pursue the kind of human ageing research you are interested in? Could you combine that with your knowledge of autism? There is currently very little research into ageing in autistic people. The Autistica YouTube channel has a lot on there about the types of research projects currently being funded. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOczrUsUjmBbUMPT0HIgGKg

Have you discussed with your father his plans to move abroad? At some point in the future is too vague for you to worry about at this stage. They might be just dreams at the moment and you are worrying unnecessarily. If and when they do move you may have already moved out of the family home.

I had very negative effects on antidepressants too, even though in my case they were mainly prescribed for anxiety rather than depression. The SSRI type made me extremely agitated with suicidal thoughts. Another type made me angry and aggressive. Like you I won't go back there again.

I am wondering if the events that led you to being expelled from the anime group happened while you were on these antidepressants? If so could you possibly explain to the group leader how much this negatively impacted you at the time and ask to be re-admitted to the group? Alternatively are there any similar groups you could join?

Focus on what you enjoy, then.

Good that you can do sudoku, I can only do it; on a basic level.

Nothing I don’t already do. I mean I watch anime, on my own. Play video games, on my own. I’ve been to the cinema so often recently I’ve started watching some of the same films twice.

when I’m stressed at work i play sudoku to calm down but then I can spend 45min - to an hour on one of those expert level killer ones.

Do you have anything to settle the head? A Hobby? Or a special interest?

What we think about, we create. So, if we view our life as Brave New World; that's what will manifest. Yes, there is so much evil and chicanery out there, but if we detach from the white noise; we may find contentment.