A National Friendship Database

 ,i don't understand the friend thing , It all seens like an act that i don't know the rules to .just gets so stressful ,

 5 years ago i used to visit an end of the world cult in devon ,called twelve tribes  and they where nice to me ,i suppose that would be what having friends would be like, they pretended to care and be  interested[ but it was fake they just wanted my land and money] but it was kind of nice pretending.

I know exactly what you mean. All I want is people who understand me and care about me, a group of friends like that. But no one ever seems to like me or understand me. I have one husband and one daughter, most people who seem to be friends just suddenly dump me, I don't know why ‍♀️

I recently thought I'd been dumped, but when I finally talked it through months later with someone he said I'd misinterpretted the situation and I'd actually signalled (accidently) my backing away. 2 friends have since agreed. We're now hanging out again, albeit we haven't processed the tension so there's kinda something in our way.

People seem to move on from me. I think NTs like groups, and I'm not good at that; I'm no good at talking usual stuff like tv, popular culture, etc; I tend to do deep and meaningful and when they don't need anymore or the reminder of what they've said that they move on, or if they've told me too much they run away like they do with therapists; and people have a limit for how many people they can have intimately in their life. Bizzarley I think I have higher social demands than NTs cos maybe I don't get fulfilled from extended family n work n casual connections, and i,m compensating for childhood loneliness.

I,ve n AS friend who struggles a bit, lots of acquaintances but few friends. I can see some things he does, like I,ll say do you want to do x by text and he'll reply no. Even i know you have to signal you'd like to another time. I got very insecure with him even though it was clear i was his best friend ever.

Then another AS guy I know who can be lovely can operate in a very functional way and appear not to appreciate the relationship even though he says he's closer to me than most. But at times says stuff i find pushing away, even hurtful.

So I can see we can be clueless, and at times to blame. I'm learning to talk things through better, not get so insecure and perceive rejection where there isn't (they've just competing demands), and to make friends that will last and let go of those i hold onto.

He's a Canadian doctor and addiction and mental health specialist who is also ADHD. Many videos and some books available from him. I'm just beginning to explore this area but he is really a helpful resource. Very compassionate and real and easy to understand. 

Who's Gobor Mate? And what else have you found out Turtle?

The truth is I'm probably most soothed when in a relationship.

Seeing 3-4 people regular works for me, more than lots of people a tiny bit. I train with someone 3 times a week, so that fills two eves and gives a structure to Saturday. It tires me, I have a bath after, eat and of an eve read and go to bed early. We chat, but he doesn't dig.

Sunday I have a long run with a new'ish mate. Again it gives structure to the day. The reliable weekly rhythm of seeing each other suits me. He's busy with family so there's a clear boundary on not being able to hang out more.

I then see a work colleague that I'm in a bubble with once ot sometimes twice a week.

I've learnt how to do holidays on my own around sport, mostly fell running and camping or hostel and walks.

If I get neurotically social I find three nights on my own and I reset and am content, generally.

Avoiding love drama seems key, but hard even when i try not to be drawn to someone they always find a way in and mess with my head, n heart.

Oh, n 5 Spurit accupuncture helps me, p,us all my goals and special interests. But dealing with the old grief and black holes, dunno.

Mark, I think no matter what it is that causes suffering, those people need to be heard and their story told. After all, it's the way we live as a collective that is the cause of most mental health issues therefore imperative the sufferers are listened to so we can collectively address the causes for prevention in the future. Otherwise, the issues will be passed-on from one generation to the next. 

With the need to be soothed, I believe it comes from childhood and yes, I think the sense of identity is central to that or at least a major part of it. I know Gabor Mate and others have looked into these themes in more depth. Can it be rectified or managed ? I don't know but it's something I'm trying to explore atm. Have you had any good advice in this area ?

Turtle, it's odd isn't it, aspies are supposed to be asocial. I've definitely had periods in my life where i've been a hermit and thoroughly been content, but these days seem to be fairly neurotically sociial. It seems one or the other, that I can't find the balaNce, and yes, that i can't find be "soothed."

I'm not sure why. Could be I have a weak sense of self, that i only know who i am when with others. Or that there's a nahgover from infancy or childhood. At the moment it's cos I'm struggling with being in love with someone who's struggling with the situation.

I've noticed that in lockdown i don't need much. People have been quite reliable so I get a daily run in with someone and that seems to be enough. They're not even close friends but abit of NT conversation seems to do me. If I ever do get into a relationship again I'll have to see what happens, am i soothed, or still neurotic!

That's what i always want, to be behind the throne, leading from behind. At the mo' I've got an NT as my right hand woman, and is proving good. I do a lot of the people stuff still, but she points stuff out to me, draws boundaries quicker, is less of a dormat and i follow her lead on this. 

What types/groups of AS men are there, that would be useful to know as well.

In my measurements, the majority of ASD men are bullied and pushed around - they end up doing McJobs - cleaners, shelf stackers, storemen etc.    The lucky aspie-types end up in a techy/nerdy job - the classic boffin type.

Very few make it to management - they burn out early and can't hack the politics.

I did management for a few years - what a load of hassle - I had 18 women and 4 blokes reporting to me - I never wanted to have staff again!   I preferred to be a Riker or Data character - a technical advisor and expert and right-hand man for the manager with NT people skills..

Bizzarley I think I have higher social demands than NTs cos maybe I don't get fulfilled from extended family n work n casual connections, and i,m compensating for childhood loneliness.

That sounds just like me!

And like you I also want to talk about deep and meaningful things, but I've learned many people don't like that, it's too much for them.

Me too. It feels like something can't be soothed and I don't know what it is. 

A lot of people can't handle much below on-the-surface chit-chat and some don't want to hear any issues you may have if it's mental health related. I've seen people's reactions when even the minimalist, just slightly below the surface, issues are raised, it scares the *** out of them. You can see how uncomfortable it makes some feel and others you can see they just want to escape or avoid those kind of conversations. I guess that's why there are so many therapists in work these days. Out of sight, out of mind so to speak.

One of my parents is one of those types who sees everything through an old-fashioned, very simplistic, black & white lens and is overwhelmed by anything complex or difficult. In many ways things have improved in mental health but I think there are still many immature people around who have never been used to grown-up adult conversations. Most of the adults I grew-up around were still very immature in their 40's & 50's. Many of them have never read a book beyond schooling. I think it says a lot about the education system they came through. 

Have you read Aspergirls @kikicat?

The stuff on women seems to apply to me better than the stuff on men.

Thinking about this, I think I do have high needs. A friend once said in a kind way that i was "demanding, but rewarding." I don't do downtime so try and fill that with people as i struggle to self motivate. But i also think there's an unfilled yearning; and maybe i treat friends as special interests. I'm also single so think i try to fill that void with intimate friends. Seems i'm hard to be satisfied. I am better when in a relationship, but find that really hard to get into.

On 'kind', something similar happened to me. A friend once said to me in awe, "you really care, don't you." It wasn't waking up to me caring, but the depth of my caring that was striking him.

I'd say the same of my closest AS friend, and to an extent of many aspues I know. One though is ruthlessly unkind, but i wonder if her diagnosis is incorrect and really she has OCPD combined with something else. Or maybe some aspies are mean.

That is true and women want to fit in more, be liked, have friends, we do better collaborating than competing.

What types/groups of AS men are there, that would be useful to know as well.

The problem is the female 'communication' brain allows them to hide more effectively - they are so much better at being a chameleon at school - it's when life gets more complex that they crash & burn.  

Boys don't have those skills so are so much easier to spot.

Now I'm an adult, I can spot aspies a mile away - male and female.

I expect you are right. I'm the first sort. WTF is going on in the world? I think I'm on the wrong planet.

I think my best friend at school is the second type. I'm no longer in touch with her but looking back, she fits that exactly. She is a dynamic business woman like Alexis Carrington!

Hopefully AS women will get more help in future.

This might be too controversial - I don't mean it to be - all the AS women I know fit into one of two groups - the first is the most common - confused by the world, not fitting in - often abused by being too trusting.

The second are the strong academic type - they don't realise they are different to other women so they power ahead - their bluntness and honesty is seen as an attribute (no NT female mind- games) so they go far in business - they take no crap from anyone - mostly because they don't attach the emotion / personal insult attitude to anything.    They are normally very fair, pragmatic bosses and excellent to work for and with.

When I win the lottery I might be able to take some kind of course I suppose...

Yes, it's probably AS people in general, but I think people are just realising that autism affects women too and it's less well known in society. I dunno.

Yes I hear you there: if someone would just take me aside and say: 'when you do X, people think Y.' 'You're too blunt, try to be more soft.' Or whatever. To give me a few hints and tips.

One of my two friends said after she'd known me a while: 'you're...kind...aren't you?' in an awed tone. I felt like saying 'duh!' because I know I'm kind but obviously I don't come across as kind. I dunno.

A masters might be a way in, just find one that has plenty of local and older students; or other courses.

Yes, I'm sure men have an easier pass, but I think most AS types struggle. Like I said, I've two AS friends and I can see how they miscommunicate, even to me who likes bluntness etc. One misses stuff out and just says no, but doesn't fill in that he'd like to on another occasion. If we have patterns in our lives then the only way out is to see what we're contributing to the pattern and how we can change that. I can see i've patterns, but no idea how to change them!

My mother is super easy to offend too. e.g. once I went to Boots, spent ages talking to the perfume counter assistants to pick out the perfect perfume for her for Mother's Day. When I gave it to her, she was offended because she said the name of the perfume was an insult ♀️ I didn't get her a perfume again.

I've no idea what I do to insult people, but I think it's because I'm a woman and therefore expected to understand all the mysterious and subtle signals and undercurrents other women use and understand. As a woman I'm supposed to be social, gentle, sensitive, not blunt and truthful. People don't like the truth. I've noticed that men get more of a free pass and excused if they're a bit blunt and sarcastic, but women won't forgive other women for a faux pas.

I would love to get into an academic circle, I've been like Rapunzel for the last 20 years, trapped in a tower away from people.

Thats because they now there whole reality is wrong ,its like a tower of cards . For me its like they have gone down the wrong path and are surrounded by swamps ,can't see where to go know and to scared to change,

Mark (NicheMarket) said:

Academic circles are good, they like deep and meaningful!

I've tried that but I've found them to be sullied by extreme political correctness - it's almost like they are surrounded by plain-clothes Stazi so can't speak the truth any more - you can see they are having to work extra hard to not offend and toe the political line.    It's really gross to watch.

I attended an awards evening at my daughter's uni and it was very strange to listen to the stilted speeches and bum-licking and the awkwardness of adding every pro-noun - just in case.  

Mark (NicheMarket) said:

Academic circles are good, they like deep and meaningful!

I've tried that but I've found them to be sullied by extreme political correctness - it's almost like they are surrounded by plain-clothes Stazi so can't speak the truth any more - you can see they are having to work extra hard to not offend and toe the political line.    It's really gross to watch.

I attended an awards evening at my daughter's uni and it was very strange to listen to the stilted speeches and bum-licking and the awkwardness of adding every pro-noun - just in case.  

Thats because they now there whole reality is wrong ,its like a tower of cards . For me its like they have gone down the wrong path and are surrounded by swamps ,can't see where to go know and to scared to change,